She has condemned anyone that doesn't accept her messages to hell, basically.
She claims that God said the following
"Read our messages and stop being scornful or deaf when heaven speaks. Lower your voices and you will hear ours. Think twice before you judge; think more than twice before you condemn the works of the Holy Spirit. I shall not spare anyone who mocks the Holy Spirit, blaspheming him outright". Then he reminds us of what awaits those who blaspheme, "Justice will send them down to the underworld"
Basically she has elevated the writings to higher than the Bible (rejecting the Bible is not unforgivable, you can repent of the sin and it will be washed).
She writes automatic messages from 'Jesus' and the 'Apostles'.
She is in touch with demons.
If you don't see anything wrong with her then it would be safest to simply be obedient to the many bishops and churches who have condemned her spiritism and have nothing to do with her at all.
I would not communicate anyone myself who had become a follower of her.
I know these "where ( ) will end up" questions are annyoing to answer but here it is: Since in the Bible, it says that if you cause someone else to sin, it is your sin, then if a heretic like this woman goes to third world countries with no religion and preach her views and they accept them, will that count as a sin for her for polluting other people's minds?
Please, no body get mad, but the BIBLE teaches simillar: All the times that the people of the Old Testament did not listen to the word, the where punished or going to get punished- Ninevah, Moses in the Wilderness... The BIBLE also teach not to
condemn the works of the Holy Spirit. I[God] shall not spare anyone who mocks the Holy Spirit, blaspheming him outright".
Mark 3:29 "But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation” Her teaching are pretty much the same as the BIBLE. I don't get the big deal. I am not a follower... [quote author=copticuser20 link=topic=11053.msg133503#msg133503 date=1300746818] I know these "where ( ) will end up" questions are annyoing to answer but here it is: Since in the Bible, it says that if you cause someone else to sin, it is your sin, then if a heretic like this woman goes to third world countries with no religion and preach her views and they accept them, will that count as a sin for her for polluting other people's minds?
What is wrong with this question? We are not a religion the brainwashes people. We are free to ask questions! Cyril
Come on. We are Copts and are free to ask questions. We are not brainwashed and forced to be Copts. We have the right to ask and get answers. Now I ask: Since in the Bible, it says that if you cause someone else to sin, it is your sin, then if a heretic like this woman goes to third world countries with no religion and preach her views and they accept them, will that count as a sin for her for polluting other people's minds? It is a valid and intriguing question. Can anyone answer my question and my previous questions aswell? God bless, Pray for me, Cyril
Is it not enough that she is a heretic and has invented her own heresies under the influence of supposed "spirits", and now tries to infect as many as possible with her heresies?
HOW DO YOU KNOW??? I have obviously asked why you guys are accusing her of {insert act here} and clearly, you guys CAN'T prove anything. This is just a joke. Not CHRISTian at all. You guys just keep accusing without a proper account. I think I have done a fair share of research to say that she is maybe insane, maybe mentally ill or something but DEFINATLY NOT in contact with any demons whatsoever. This is a false accusation. Until you guys start acting like proper Christians and simply say that she {insert act here} with suffisiant amount of evidence. She is simpy a person who is a little wierd. I am really shocked of the answers I have received regarding my question. Cyril
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=11053.msg133512#msg133512 date=1300749899] HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
I kind of regret posting that video, because the visceral reaction to the ridiculousness of the presentation (which I had, too) seems to be obscuring the fact that even if this lady entered a church where none of that was going on and things appeared perfectly orthodox, she'd still be spreading heretical revelations that would damage the church much more than a guitar (which, yes, still shouldn't be there).
[quote author=axum link=topic=11053.msg133519#msg133519 date=1300753625] I have never heard of her but what is more shocking than miss v is the "coptic " church on the youtube video .Where on earth is that church ???
i think its saint mark's cathedral in cairo... i think
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=11053.msg133515#msg133515 date=1300751042] + Irini nem ehmot,
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
I don't see how any of her teachings are against the Gospel. Of course I don't think that I am wiser than the church. All I am asking for is the reason for the church ex-communicating her. [quote author=dzheremi link=topic=11053.msg133516#msg133516 date=1300751082] [quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=11053.msg133512#msg133512 date=1300749899] HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
Hmm. I can't put it any better than our good Fr. Peter already has, so I will quote one of his posts from earlier in this thread:
If you don't see anything wrong with her then it would be safest to simply be obedient to the many bishops and churches who have condemned her spiritism and have nothing to do with her at all.
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
I don't see how any of her teachings are against the Gospel. Of course I don't think that I am wiser than the church. All I am asking for is the reason for the church ex-communicating her. [quote author=dzheremi link=topic=11053.msg133516#msg133516 date=1300751082] [quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=11053.msg133512#msg133512 date=1300749899] HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
Once again, I don't see a reason!
Obviously if the church is telling us to stay away form her and her teachings, there is a reason. The church consists of many educated Bishops and Priests who are blessed with the Grace of God. I think we should believe them....and it isn't a dictatorship like Islam. It is advice that is highly recommended and with your own free will, you can chose to obey or not.
In the letters "Jesus" (quotation marks) says that those who do not accept the messages and say that they are not of the Holy Spirit (blaspheming them) have committed an unforgivable sin. This shows a misinterpretation of the verse about blaspheming the Holy Spirit, being skeptical of something which does not seem as it is from God, is not blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
This is the key problem. She elevates these revelations to beyond Scripture. If I am an atheist and deny that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and even burn it, there is still chance for repentance. There is even chance for repentance if I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit. However if I deny the authenticity of the messages, apparently there isn't repentance.
You're just a kid. You don't have the wisdom the Church does. The Church has found her worthy of excommunication. That should be enough for you. Accept it and move on.
this is besides the objective of this thread so sorry in advance
is the coptic church doing away with covering head for women and most of its tradition ? is the emphasis on tradition loosening in the coptic church ?? i would love to hear your input .
[quote author=axum link=topic=11053.msg133531#msg133531 date=1300757966] this is besides the objective of this thread so sorry in advance
is the coptic church doing away with covering head for women and most of its tradition ? is the emphasis on tradition loosening in the coptic church ?? i would love to hear your input .
Axum, i don't know what goes on in your church, but in my church this doesn't happen at all.
[quote author=axum link=topic=11053.msg133531#msg133531 date=1300757966] this is besides the objective of this thread so sorry in advance
is the coptic church doing away with covering head for women and most of its tradition ? is the emphasis on tradition loosening in the coptic church ?? i would love to hear your input .
I'm not really sure how this has the least bit realvenace to the thread (i suggest making a new thread so others can guess what's in it) but my church's females are starting to not wear them. The Abounas aren't saying anything really. But many still do wear them. I am a boy so I don't really pay attention to who is wearing their asharb.
i know it does not have relevance and i did apologize to begin with anyway disregard my post or questions .I don't think i will start another thread for this because well ...it does not have any personal relevance to me .i was just desmayed at the whole atmosphere of the church and i was reflecting on it .
My church is very strict about it because in 1 Corinthians chapter 12/13/14(one of those i think), talks about how women should cover their heads with it.
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
I don't see how any of her teachings are against the Gospel. Of course I don't think that I am wiser than the church. All I am asking for is the reason for the church ex-communicating her. [quote author=dzheremi link=topic=11053.msg133516#msg133516 date=1300751082] [quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=11053.msg133512#msg133512 date=1300749899] HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
Once again, I don't see a reason!
If you still cannot understand why the church has excommunicated her than so be it. You aren't in a position that demands understanding the wisdom of what the church has done. As many have said the best thing if you can't understand or seem to grasp, is to be obedient and let it go. "The obedient son receives the blessings"
the reason is she is a heretic. She says that Jesus and the saints have been giving her messages. She said that anyone who doesn't listen to it doesn't go to Heaven. I think now it will be a little obvious why she was excommunicated.
Vassula was excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox church, which seems like a Godsend, but I still wish the Coptic Orthodox church to express her opinion officially about this lady.
Coptic Christians may be unaware about her and still listen to her words.
Cyril,
Although I admit I'm glad she has been ex'd, I like your point also. But the way I see it is this:
A) for the church to excommunicate anyone is a huge deal. It means that the person knows that they have done something wrong and insists on it to the point of leading others astray.
B) let's say she is just a few raisins short of a fruitcake, why is she preaching in orthodox churches for? she must be stopped ASAP
C) let's say she is not crazy and really had these visions, ok - are people coming to orthodoxy out if it? Is the church in anyway being honored?? No
D) she is engaging with Protestants in prayer meetings. I know as a fact that this deadly serious in the EO. they are not as lax nor apathetic as us. They could excommunicate you just over that!
I only heard her speak once, and despite my friends who support her, I'm glad she has been excommunicated. She is charismatic, heretical, and preaching stuff that is antagonistic to the church.
Stuff like this makes me wish I was Greek orthodox.
I'm gonna go and make myself a souvlaki in honor of the Greek orthodox church.
Vassula was excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox church, which seems like a Godsend, but I still wish the Coptic Orthodox church to express her opinion officially about this lady.
Coptic Christians may be unaware about her and still listen to her words.
Cyril,
Although I admit I'm glad she has been ex'd, I like your point also. But the way I see it is this:
A) for the church to excommunicate anyone is a huge deal. It means that the person knows that they have done something wrong and insists on it to the point of leading others astray.
B) let's say she is just a few raisins short of a fruitcake, why is she preaching in orthodox churches for? she must be stopped ASAP
C) let's say she is not crazy and really had these visions, ok - are people coming to orthodoxy out if it? Is the church in anyway being honored?? No
D) she is engaging with Protestants in prayer meetings. I know as a fact that this deadly serious in the EO. they are not as lax nor apathetic as us. They could excommunicate you just over that!
I only heard her speak once, and despite my friends who support her, I'm glad she has been excommunicated. She is charismatic, heretical, and preaching stuff that is antagonistic to the church.
Stuff like this makes me wish I was Greek orthodox.
I'm gonna go and make myself a souvlaki in honor of the Greek orthodox church.
Comments
She has condemned anyone that doesn't accept her messages to hell, basically.
She claims that God said the following Basically she has elevated the writings to higher than the Bible (rejecting the Bible is not unforgivable, you can repent of the sin and it will be washed).
She is in touch with demons.
If you don't see anything wrong with her then it would be safest to simply be obedient to the many bishops and churches who have condemned her spiritism and have nothing to do with her at all.
I would not communicate anyone myself who had become a follower of her.
All the times that the people of the Old Testament did not listen to the word,
the where punished or going to get punished- Ninevah, Moses in the Wilderness...
The BIBLE also teach not to Mark 3:29
"But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”
Her teaching are pretty much the same as the BIBLE.
I don't get the big deal. I am not a follower...
[quote author=copticuser20 link=topic=11053.msg133503#msg133503 date=1300746818]
I know these "where ( ) will end up" questions are annyoing to answer but here it is: Since in the Bible, it says that if you cause someone else to sin, it is your sin, then if a heretic like this woman goes to third world countries with no religion and preach her views and they accept them, will that count as a sin for her for polluting other people's minds?
What is wrong with this question? We are not a religion the brainwashes people. We are free to ask questions!
Cyril
Do not ask such questions. They are truly pointless and valueless.
Yeah...that's what I thought after I pressed post :-[
We are not brainwashed and forced to be Copts.
We have the right to ask and get answers.
Now I ask:
Since in the Bible, it says that if you cause someone else to sin, it is your sin, then if a heretic
like this woman goes to third world countries with no religion and preach her views and they
accept them, will that count as a sin for her for polluting other people's minds?
It is a valid and intriguing question.
Can anyone answer my question and my previous questions aswell?
God bless, Pray for me,
Cyril
I have obviously asked why you guys are accusing her of {insert act here} and
clearly, you guys CAN'T prove anything. This is just a joke.
Not CHRISTian at all. You guys just keep accusing without a proper
account. I think I have done a fair share of research to say that she is maybe insane,
maybe mentally ill or something but DEFINATLY NOT in contact with any demons
whatsoever. This is a false accusation. Until you guys start acting like proper
Christians and simply say that she {insert act here} with suffisiant amount of evidence.
She is simpy a person who is a little wierd.
I am really shocked of the answers I have received regarding my question.
Cyril
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
Do not dabble in such business as automatic writing and messages from Jesus.
Lord have mercy on us all and free those who have been entrapped by this delusion.
I have never heard of her but what is more shocking than miss v is the "coptic " church on the youtube video .Where on earth is that church ???
i think its saint mark's cathedral in cairo... i think
+ Irini nem ehmot,
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
I don't see how any of her teachings are against the Gospel. Of course I don't think that I am wiser than the church. All
I am asking for is the reason for the church ex-communicating her.
[quote author=dzheremi link=topic=11053.msg133516#msg133516 date=1300751082]
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=11053.msg133512#msg133512 date=1300749899]
HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
Once again, I don't see a reason!
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=11053.msg133515#msg133515 date=1300751042]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
I don't see how any of her teachings are against the Gospel. Of course I don't think that I am wiser than the church. All
I am asking for is the reason for the church ex-communicating her.
[quote author=dzheremi link=topic=11053.msg133516#msg133516 date=1300751082]
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=11053.msg133512#msg133512 date=1300749899]
HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
Once again, I don't see a reason!
Obviously if the church is telling us to stay away form her and her teachings, there is a reason. The church consists of many educated Bishops and Priests who are blessed with the Grace of God. I think we should believe them....and it isn't a dictatorship like Islam. It is advice that is highly recommended and with your own free will, you can chose to obey or not.
This is the key problem. She elevates these revelations to beyond Scripture. If I am an atheist and deny that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and even burn it, there is still chance for repentance. There is even chance for repentance if I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit. However if I deny the authenticity of the messages, apparently there isn't repentance.
You're just a kid. You don't have the wisdom the Church does. The Church has found her worthy of excommunication. That should be enough for you. Accept it and move on.
is the coptic church doing away with covering head for women and most of its tradition ? is the emphasis on tradition loosening in the coptic church ?? i would love to hear your input .
this is besides the objective of this thread so sorry in advance
is the coptic church doing away with covering head for women and most of its tradition ? is the emphasis on tradition loosening in the coptic church ?? i would love to hear your input .
Axum, i don't know what goes on in your church, but in my church this doesn't happen at all.
this is besides the objective of this thread so sorry in advance
is the coptic church doing away with covering head for women and most of its tradition ? is the emphasis on tradition loosening in the coptic church ?? i would love to hear your input .
I'm not really sure how this has the least bit realvenace to the thread (i suggest making a new thread so others can guess what's in it) but my church's females are starting to not wear them. The Abounas aren't saying anything really. But many still do wear them. I am a boy so I don't really pay attention to who is wearing their asharb.
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=11053.msg133515#msg133515 date=1300751042]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
You seem so keen about what the bible says. Let's see what the bible says about what Vassula is doing:
But even if we, or an angel from out of heaven, should preach a gospel to you besides what Gospel we preached to you, let such a one be anathema. - Galatians 1:18
Heresy is not a joke. The Orthodox church, in her wisdom, has excommunicated this woman. Do you think you know better than the Church, who is guided by the Holy Spirit?
I don't see how any of her teachings are against the Gospel. Of course I don't think that I am wiser than the church. All
I am asking for is the reason for the church ex-communicating her.
[quote author=dzheremi link=topic=11053.msg133516#msg133516 date=1300751082]
[quote author=Cyril97 link=topic=11053.msg133512#msg133512 date=1300749899]
HOW DO YOU KNOW???
This has been the ultimate conclusion reached by the leadership of every apostolic church she has approached. The Eastern Orthodox Church says stay away from her, Catholic Church says stay away from her, and according to Fr. Peter your own Church is to stay away from her. This is enough for me. Think of how difficult it is to get all these churches to agree on many things...yet that agreement was not hard to find in the case of Mrs. Ryden. It should at least give you pause.
Once again, I don't see a reason!
If you still cannot understand why the church has excommunicated her than so be it. You aren't in a position that demands understanding the wisdom of what the church has done. As many have said the best thing if you can't understand or seem to grasp, is to be obedient and let it go. "The obedient son receives the blessings"
Vassula was excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox church, which seems like a Godsend, but I still wish the Coptic Orthodox church to express her opinion officially about this lady.
Coptic Christians may be unaware about her and still listen to her words.
Cyril,
Although I admit I'm glad she has been ex'd, I like your point also. But the way I see it is this:
A) for the church to excommunicate anyone is a huge deal. It means that the person knows that they have done something wrong and insists on it to the point of leading others astray.
B) let's say she is just a few raisins short of a fruitcake, why is she preaching in orthodox churches for? she must be stopped ASAP
C) let's say she is not crazy and really had these visions, ok - are people coming to orthodoxy out if it? Is the church in anyway being honored?? No
D) she is engaging with Protestants in prayer meetings.
I know as a fact that this deadly serious in the EO.
they are not as lax nor apathetic as us. They could excommunicate you just over that!
I only heard her speak once, and despite my friends who support her, I'm glad she has been excommunicated. She is charismatic, heretical, and preaching stuff that is antagonistic to the church.
Stuff like this makes me wish I was Greek orthodox.
I'm gonna go and make myself a souvlaki in honor of the Greek orthodox church.
I love them to death.
Fr Peter,
Vassula was excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox church, which seems like a Godsend, but I still wish the Coptic Orthodox church to express her opinion officially about this lady.
Coptic Christians may be unaware about her and still listen to her words.
Cyril,
Although I admit I'm glad she has been ex'd, I like your point also. But the way I see it is this:
A) for the church to excommunicate anyone is a huge deal. It means that the person knows that they have done something wrong and insists on it to the point of leading others astray.
B) let's say she is just a few raisins short of a fruitcake, why is she preaching in orthodox churches for? she must be stopped ASAP
C) let's say she is not crazy and really had these visions, ok - are people coming to orthodoxy out if it? Is the church in anyway being honored?? No
D) she is engaging with Protestants in prayer meetings.
I know as a fact that this deadly serious in the EO.
they are not as lax nor apathetic as us. They could excommunicate you just over that!
I only heard her speak once, and despite my friends who support her, I'm glad she has been excommunicated. She is charismatic, heretical, and preaching stuff that is antagonistic to the church.
Stuff like this makes me wish I was Greek orthodox.
I'm gonna go and make myself a souvlaki in honor of the Greek orthodox church.
I love them to death.
Nice to know you take pride in the Coptic church