Mina,
(Note: this is open to everyone, but i'm asking Mina as he knows exactly what I'm talking about).
Do you remember we were talking about the recording of Ten-O-Sht done by the LA Church? Its the morning vespers. Its starts with Ten-O-osht and goes into A'pekhristos Penoti.. etc. In the apsalmody, its the Ten-o-osht that's right before Pi-o-oiny enta evmie. THen they go into Apekhristos Penoti (for the resurrection), and finally, the tune changes to sanawee for the termination (i..e Isos Pikhristos Ensaf, nem foo ensof ensof nem shah eneh.. etc.. then eporo).
When is this tune sung? I mean, i know its in the vespers, but which part, and which day(s)??
Also, do u have ANY other recording of the same guys that did this? I was hoping that they did anything for the Pentecost.
Thanks
Comments
I think you are referring to the seven tunes hymn. It starts with Matins doxology "tenousht" in the tune of joyous verses of cymbals, then after the litany of the sick, it continues as the proper seven tunes hymn till its end (with prayers for the Virgin and saints in "neknai" tune as usual), and then after the Litany of the Offertory verses of cymbals in joyous tune. I don't agree with changing the tune at Yesos Bekhrestos ensaf nemfwoo to be honest, but that is the way most of the cantors recorded it - i.e. it shouldn't change to annual tune since we are on a major feast of the Lord day!!! Makes no sense but to spend less time in the church, because people get bored of long hymns.
This arrangement is only sung on the three major feast days - Nativity, Epiphany, and Resurrection.
PS: The above account is borrowed from jydeacon copyright material :)
God bless you and pray for us a lot
Dear QT_PA_2T,
and then after the Litany of the Offertory verses of cymbals in joyous tune.
One correction I would like to make, is that the verses of the cymbals are not said again after the offeratory but are only said after the prayer of thanksgiving. I think you are refering to the Doxologies which are ofcourse in the joyful tune. This tune(the joyful tune for the verses of the cymbals as well as the doxologies) is supposed to be sung throughout the 50 days, but with the normal begining aproppriate to the day(watos or adam) the Doxology for Matins as ophadece said is only said on three major feasts, Nativity, Epiphany, and Resurrection. Same thing with Piouini.
pray for me
joe
God bless you all and pray for us a lot
i would just like to say that the [coptic]Ten`ou`wst[/coptic] parts are not parts of the 7 ways, but rather the verses of cymbals intro for the 3 feast as was said.
Also before [coptic]I=y=c P=,=c `ncaf[/coptic], churchs may add the part for their saint.
with the tune of the verses, i have to go with Ophadece on this.....the book just says that they are said in the long tune.....but also in the same time, i wouldn't call the other tune the annual tune bass, but rather just the short tune. there are only two tunes!!!
I guess they all got there first before me. anyway all was right.
i would just like to say that the [coptic]Ten`ou`wst[/coptic] parts are not parts of the 7 ways, but rather the verses of cymbals intro for the 3 feast as was said.
Also before [coptic]I=y=c P=,=c `ncaf[/coptic], churchs may add the part for their saint.
with the tune of the verses, i have to go with Ophadece on this.....the book just says that they are said in the long tune.....but also in the same time, i wouldn't call the other tune the annual tune bass, but rather just the short tune. there are only two tunes!!!
Thank you Mina,
So, just to summarise for my slow mind, when can I sing EXACTLY that recording mina? Its not the tenoosht of the sanawee.
Look - if u go to the Upsalmodaya, you'll find the following:
a) Ten-O-Osht Emviot (before Pi-o-Oini enta evmi)
b) Ten-O-Osht Emviot (after Amioni maren-o-osht)
OK? The LA hymn sing a) then they go to the apekhristos ? Right? then they conclude with Eporo.
So, basically, this is sung instead of Amioni-Marenoosht??
Right?
[quote author=minagir link=topic=6597.msg87761#msg87761 date=1210867368]
I guess they all got there first before me. anyway all was right.
i would just like to say that the [coptic]Ten`ou`wst[/coptic] parts are not parts of the 7 ways, but rather the verses of cymbals intro for the 3 feast as was said.
Also before [coptic]I=y=c P=,=c `ncaf[/coptic], churchs may add the part for their saint.
with the tune of the verses, i have to go with Ophadece on this.....the book just says that they are said in the long tune.....but also in the same time, i wouldn't call the other tune the annual tune bass, but rather just the short tune. there are only two tunes!!!
Thank you Mina,
So, just to summarise for my slow mind, when can I sing EXACTLY that recording mina? Its not the tenoosht of the sanawee.
Look - if u go to the Upsalmodaya, you'll find the following:
a) Ten-O-Osht Emviot (before Pi-o-Oini enta evmi)
b) Ten-O-Osht Emviot (after Amioni maren-o-osht)
OK? The LA hymn sing a) then they go to the apekhristos ? Right? then they conclude with Eporo.
So, basically, this is sung instead of Amioni-Marenoosht??
Right?
yes there are two:
Intro to normal Watos Verses: [coptic]Ten`ou`wst `m`vIwt nem `pSyri@ nem pi`Pneuma =e=;=u@ ]`Triac =e=;=u@ `nomo`oucioc.
<ere ]ekklycia...[/coptic]
Intro to the 3 Feasts verses: [coptic]Ten`ou`wst `m`vIwt nem `pSyri@ nem pi`Penuma =e=;=u@ ,ere ]`ekklycia@ `py`i `nte ni`aggeloc.[/coptic] until: [coptic]+ Hiten nou`eu,y@ P=,=c penOuro@ `ari `ounai neman@ qen tekmet`ouro.[/coptic]
What is in the recording, is the 2nd one, the ones for the feast. you can only say them on the 3 feasts. Of course again, they are the 1st 10 parts of the morning doxologies. (btw, these are also intro parts for bright saturday; but there, they are not said in the same tune but rather the short one....review the rite of bright saturday)
so again to be clear, you just say this on the feasts. the Apekhrestos parts and what after are the general verses of the specific feast, which in our case are the ones for the 50s, which we say during every vespers and matins.
am i clear or i just confused you more?!!
Now. the question remains, are we today, in a feast?? Or do i have do my sing the shower routine (AGAIN!)
Great, i get you!.
Now. the question remains, are we today, in a feast?? Or do i have do my sing the shower routine (AGAIN!)
lol......technicly today is part of the feast, but not the feast itself. so i guess you kind of need to sin in the shower till next nativity........
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6597.msg87766#msg87766 date=1210871553]
Great, i get you!.
Now. the question remains, are we today, in a feast?? Or do i have do my sing the shower routine (AGAIN!)
lol......technicly today is part of the feast, but not the feast itself. so i guess you kind of need to sin in the shower till next nativity........
Oh no! I missed it again!??
It was only for the Eid itself.. so now the tune is the same but its the Ten-O-osht that's the normal version!??
No!
NO!!!!
NOOOOO!!!!!!!
You got it
OK, what's the dammage?
How long does this tune last for? Does it go all the way after pentecost?
Or do i have until Pentecost to sing this?
This is so unfair. Im stuck in Turkey. What happens to people who are stuck overseas? Surely the Church should allow them to sing the things they missed if it was NO FAULT of their own!?
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6597.msg87770#msg87770 date=1210872891]
You got it
OK, what's the dammage?
How long does this tune last for? Does it go all the way after pentecost?
Or do i have until Pentecost to sing this?
You have until Pentecost for this tune, after that everything goes back to annual tune.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6597.msg87771#msg87771 date=1210873160]
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6597.msg87770#msg87770 date=1210872891]
You got it
This is so unfair. Im stuck in Turkey. What happens to people who are stuck overseas? Surely the Church should allow them to sing the things they missed if it was NO FAULT of their own!?
Lol tough noogies buddy hahaha. you can listen to this as many times and sing it in your shower however. Just be happy that you still have the tune to sing for the next 40 or so days and enjoy it while it lasts. This is the longest period where we have a joyful tune so enjoy it.
lol yeah, pretty soon it will be Apostles Fast... but with that comes Piepnevma (on my top-20 list), Asomen, Ondos, Niromi...... plenty more
Lol.. u guys are funny.. our priests don't know the tasbeha. They don't care.. they WILL NOT NOTICE if i do this tune AFTER the pentecost. Trust me.. its safe.
All they care about is that they finish the vespers , by hook or by crook IN TIME to do the mass, which has to finish IN TIME, for them to go home and eat some of that good old Egyptian Sunday Roast waiting for them at home.
Yep! This is not Agios Athanatos Nai-nan fellas!! This is do-able!!
Hhaha..
;) You miserable. You thought u had me? Huh?
And u were all kinda smiling about it , thinking that it was fun seeing me here in Turkey unable to sing the songs i like!? Right?
WRONG! I'm gonna do it. I don't care... why should I care??? What's abouna gonna do? Talk to my parents? Give me a detention!? I DONT THINK SO!!
I'll just stop, change tunes, say I'm sorry and la-di-da, life goes on.
Get used to it boys, I'm Coptic, and I'm here to stay.
I admit, in the states, they could ex-communicate u for this, and remove u from the khedma as well as giving u lashes in places the sun doesn't shine, but this is Europe.
lol that was QT master of the covert PhD in saying alhan while abouna is asleep ;D :D
No.. abouna is no potato. He's a good man.. he just doesnt care much for tasbeha. He won't notice a THING!! Trust me.
This is Europe guys, abouna doesnt care, so long as u don't make a noise.. u know.. children crying, people talking.. he won't notice! TRUST ME.
I admit, in the states, they could ex-communicate u for this, and remove u from the khedma as well as giving u lashes in places the sun doesn't shine, but this is Europe.
This is "The one and only holy catholic and apostolic Church of God" the Coptic Orthodox Church.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6597.msg87779#msg87779 date=1210875137]
This is Europe guys, abouna doesnt care, so long as u don't make a noise.. u know.. children crying, people talking.. he won't notice! TRUST ME.
I admit, in the states, they could ex-communicate u for this, and remove u from the khedma as well as giving u lashes in places the sun doesn't shine, but this is Europe.
This is "The one and only holy catholic and apostolic Church of God" the Coptic Orthodox Church.
Yes. JY explained. Its matins. That makes it part of the Qoddass.
But wait a sec. Isn't the pentecost a feast?? lol..
U sneaky lot! We do it again for pentecost? Don't we?? What day is pentecost?
i just want to say..u guys r HILARIOUS..
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6597.msg87799#msg87799 date=1210882419]
But wait a sec. Isn't the pentecost a feast?? lol..
U sneaky lot! We do it again for pentecost? Don't we?? What day is pentecost?
and sorry just a side comment that i would like to mention..
-we r in Pentecost right now ..it is the joyous 50 days that we r now living..
pls correct me if i am wrong
pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Christ
hello,
i just want to say..u guys r HILARIOUS..
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6597.msg87799#msg87799 date=1210882419]
But wait a sec. Isn't the pentecost a feast?? lol..
U sneaky lot! We do it again for pentecost? Don't we?? What day is pentecost?
and sorry just a side comment that i would like to mention..
-we r in Pentecost right now ..it is the joyous 50 days that we r now living..
pls correct me if i am wrong
pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Christ
well not exactly. the "Pentecost" is the feast of the Fiftieth day, that's where the part "Pente" comes from.
Guess what?
I went to the today REALLY early. I mean, i was the 1st one there. I asked the caretaker (who was just doing general chores) if I could perhaps do some tasbeha until abouna comes. He said "sure, do bakir".
Now, i've not idea what "bakir" means.... which, in a way, was pretty good because it meant I could assume what it meant. And at the very moment, bakir to me as doing Ten-O-Osht LA Style. Yeah babe!
I did.. No one complained. But, i asked him "What's bakir?"
He said "it means morning" - I said, "well.. OK, what hymn is that?"
He said he didnt know, so I just did what i knew - that was Ten-O-Osht. And like I said, abouna came in and started the morning vespers (before the mass), and cut me short, as i expected.
Now, its not a conspiracy, and I didnt mind anyway cos I said the part i liked... but no one complained. lol
What was I meant to say for Bakir?? I had no idea.
Thanks for your feedback(S).
Let me explain. Bakir means Matins. what goes with that is Praying the Matins Prayer from the agpeya, than praying the Morning Doxology after with it's normal, short tune. you can find the recording of this at almost all tasbeha rite for cantors at the end becasue it's technicly part of the tasbeha. becasue ur supposed to do tasbeha, then matins prayer from the agpeya, then the morning doxology, then start matins raising of incense as usual.
sometimes ppl skip the matins prayer from agpeya and go start for the doxology. but i guess that is fine sometimes.....
any other questions?
btw, i would love to hear your voice for once....
GOd bless u bro.
But seriously, what hymn was meant to sung for bakir (matins) in that situation??
Thanks
THanks Mina,
GOd bless u bro.
But seriously, what hymn was meant to sung for bakir (matins) in that situation??
Thanks
well like i said, it's not like a full hymn that you say "as a full part" of matins. it's a doxology, means a glorification and it's said between the matins prayer, from the agpeya, and the raising incense of matins. here: http://tasbeha.org/media/index.php?st=Praises/Midnight_Praises/Ibrahim_Ayad,_Coptic_Midnight_Praises/Part_6/track1.509.mp3
so, it was the right hymn, but wrong tune?
OK. .so we do Ten-O-oSht, (great!) , and then do we do Pi-O-Oini until Neknai O Panoti??
Thanks mate,