imikhail
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=9585.msg158978#msg158978 date=1345062822] To remind you, you said... There Psalmody, in particular, does contain grammatical, linguistic and sometimes dogmatic errors (especially the new additions of Kiahk). …
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[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=9585.msg158979#msg158979 date=1345062876] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=9585.msg158977#msg158977 date=1345062771] [quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=9585.msg158976#msg158976 date=1345062647] My ques…
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[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=9585.msg158976#msg158976 date=1345062647] My question: Why would the liturgy written by Fathers take precedence over the Fathers? [/quote] Because it is ho the Church prays and confess her faith in the prese…
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=9585.msg158972#msg158972 date=1345062436] Well I guess that I will leave others to discuss this with you. I don't know what to say if you think that St Severus teaches error. [/quote] I did not say he did. I s…
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=9585.msg158969#msg158969 date=1345062302] This surely contradicts what you have said 5 minutes ago... If those writings are in conflict with the liturgical prayers, then the liturgical prayers take precedence. …
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=9585.msg158967#msg158967 date=1345062136] Surely it is not wise to base anything on your own understanding? For myself, I accept everything that St Severus says as my spiritual father and if I have thought diff…
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"One in essence is the Trinity, Coessential and Life-giving, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, three names for one God." Does that sound perfectly correct to you? This particular verse is wrong and it is corrected by Fr. Shenouda Maher. …
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=9585.msg158963#msg158963 date=1345060698] It must surely depend on YOUR interpretation of what the Liturgical prayers teach. If I thought that St Cyril or St Severus contradicted the prayers of the Church then …
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[quote author=The least of all link=topic=9585.msg158961#msg158961 date=1345059036] So Protestants adhere to sola scriptura, i guess Imikhail adheres to sola liturga [/quote] Dear Least of All, I am afraid your assessment is mistaken. There is no…
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[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=13452.msg158952#msg158952 date=1345055258] One more thing. Fr Peter is clergy. Fr Peter is part of the hierarchy. It is ridiculous to suggest his ministry's legitimacy is questionable. [/quote] It is questionable…
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[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=9585.msg158957#msg158957 date=1345057339] imikhail, Could you please define what you mean by liturgical? Would you consider the psalmody as being liturgical? or are you referring only to the Liturgy of the …
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[quote author=JG link=topic=9585.msg158954#msg158954 date=1345055839] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=9585.msg158953#msg158953 date=1345055538] The Scripture and liturgical prayers take precedence over any personal writings. [/quote] Even the per…
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[quote author=The least of all link=topic=9585.msg158949#msg158949 date=1345054477] I just had to reply and say this. With all due respect, Imikhail you have taken a quite indefensible position and you just seem too set in your ways to accept the pa…
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[quote author=The least of all link=topic=9585.msg158946#msg158946 date=1345048668] No comment (i am bowed out :P) but wanted to link an article that has many relevant points from the most educated His Eminence the Metropolitan Abba Seraphim of the …
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13452.msg158945#msg158945 date=1345048296] Thank you for your post Hezekiel. Where should it be mentioned then? And is it not possible for people here to speak to those who are not at High School or University?…
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[quote author=minasoliman link=topic=13535.msg158922#msg158922 date=1344999032] I remember reading an article a while ago about the Trinity where it mentions that one possible Old Testament reference to the Trinity can be the three men who visited A…
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[quote author=Severian link=topic=9585.msg158917#msg158917 date=1344996575] ^I would just interpret that as meaning blemish or stain of corruption. What does the original Greek say? [/quote] Let's go with this interpretation. What is is sin it is s…
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“No one is precluded from baptism and grace, ... [so] ought not and infant be forbidden, who, being newly born, has in no way way sinned, but only having contracted the contagion of death.” How can we reconcile this quote with the litany we pray f…
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Quoting a line in the liturgy does not discount the fact that BOTH St. Cyril AND St. Severus denounced this belief, not to mention St. John Chrysostom in his Commentary on the epistle to the Romans; Dear Least of All I am not questioning the quot…
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One says we inherit the actual sin itself, the other denies this saying we are only affected by Adam's sin insofar that we are born of a corrupt mortal nature. Who are you going to believe? A modern Metropolitan or a Holy Father of the Church who h…
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"Now the question is: “Is original sin the inheritance of death only”? If this were the case, then God would be unjust (God forbid), because inheriting death would be inheriting the punishment without justification. But, sin entered the world throu…
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I will look for more examples of shifting. We may be able to see if the Coptic Trisagion is part of a pattern or an exception. Dear Remenkimi, I am glad you brought up the shifting in Dannaw. It shows that the "shifting" is a charactaristic of th…
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[quote author=The least of all link=topic=9585.msg158850#msg158850 date=1344904664] I dont see why Fr. Athanasius would have taken offense if H.E. in using "original sin" meant "the sin that came first", thus to me it seems evident that he meant the…
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This may come down to perception, but it is clear to me that many who lack the proper theological foundation can easily misinterpret the Trisagion when it contains Christological phrases followed by praising the Trinity as a whole. Yes, teaching he…
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I do think that the phrase original sin is recognizable enough that Fr. Athanasius did not feel the need to define the terms of the doctrine. From the Catholic Encyclopedia, "Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) …
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So what am I suggesting happened? I suspect that the Doxa was not always part of our Trisagion. I completely agree. I have been saying this from the start. The Doxa is a doxology to the Trinity that is chanted as a stand alone hymn in many of th…
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[quote author=RamezM link=topic=13535.msg158838#msg158838 date=1344890781] Dear imikhail, I did not mean to say that I necessarily disagree with Fr. Shenouda Maher. I am sorry my wording was not clear enough. What I meant is that you cite him as s…
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[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=13535.msg158819#msg158819 date=1344865295] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13535.msg158798#msg158798 date=1344825433] Dear Reminkimi, I am not following your logic. How is he wrong if he lists the Trisagion hymn …
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If you make distinct the Vision of Isaiah and the Chanting of the Cherubim, and say that the hymn is based on the Vision, then this begs the question, where did words of the three Holies to Christ come from if not from the Cherubim as St. Athanasiu…
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Dear IMikhail, the issue with the Trisagion is an abrupt change without warning. When we pray to the Son, we still pray to the Son and add to the fact that we glorify YOU oh Son with YOUR Good Father and the Holy Spirit. So we're still talking t…