4. In my office, I set up a Nativity Scene. No Christmas Tree or the Red Guy.
5. I ask that my American friends write out checks for the poor in Egypt rather than give me a Christmas Present. They like it because it is tax deductible.
6. I greet people with 'A Blessed Christmas', or 'enjoy the Blessings of Christmas', or 'Our Lord is Born for us'.
Little things, but I believe over the years they have had an impact.
[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=9853.msg120710#msg120710 date=1286987500] But how can parents who do not believe in God give their children any sort of grounding in the faith?
Surely that is only the responsibility of the Church.
The problem with Father Christmas is not the loose connection with St Nicholas, but the rampant materialism which surrounds that time of year. The solution is to preach the Nativity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
As the Church, as the Bride of Christ, we should not be providing to those who are weak in their faith "Fuel" to go and burn any hope of faith in their children. This is done through such means. It is wrong to go and tell your kids a false story of a saint. Its even worse to buy them presents and tell them that "Santa Claus" got it for them.
That's not right.
I just had a discussion with a sunday school teacher who not only agreed with that being dangerous, but stated they had the same problem.
Saint Nicholas is an orthodox saint. We should claim him back, make his story known and refute nonsense about him living in the North Pole, climbing down chimneys etc..
This is serious.
So, parents who do not believe in God, STILL celebrate christmas and buy their kids Christmas presents and tell them that it was from Saint Nicholas, a man dressed in red, who lives in the north pole, who flies on reindeers.
We are the custodians of the saints and their relics. How can you not refute lies being told about a saint??
The lies are so exaggerated that it becomes a mockery of the saint's life rather than a testimony of his love for Christ. When you exaggerate the truth with children you have a detrimental affect on their faith. You can explain things simply to them, sure... but the story of the red guy living in the north pole is not simplifying his story.
But the issue is that I don't know any British people who call Father Christmas St Nicholas. There are no lies being told about St Nicholas in the UK because in Britain there is no connection between Father Christmas and St Nicholas.
I am not sure whether we disagree that what is required is knowledge of Jesus Christ above all else or not.
[quote author=peterfarrington link=topic=9853.msg120742#msg120742 date=1287047174] But the issue is that I don't know any British people who call Father Christmas St Nicholas. There are no lies being told about St Nicholas in the UK because in Britain there is no connection between Father Christmas and St Nicholas.
I am not sure whether we disagree that what is required is knowledge of Jesus Christ above all else or not.
This is brief as I have just got off a plane.
Really?
That explains a lot then.
So, it never occurred to the Brits that Santa Claus is from Saint Nikolaous? They didnt make the connection?
In France, Nancy, they take the feast of Saint Nikolaous quite seriously.
i have visited more than 30 or 40 british churches over the years and most slip in the idea of santa claus and don't explain that the guy at the north pole doesn't really exist. in my experience it does confuse children.
when i was about 7 (having believed in Jesus for 2 years), i worked out that 'father Christmas' could not possibly exist. this was my reasoning: 1. he can fly. humans can't do that so he must be a spirit. 2. if he was from God, he would be in the Bible and he wasn't, so he wasn't sent from God. 3. if he was from the devil he wouldn't give presents to children, so he wasn't from the devil. 4. therefore he doesn't exist.
i was really annoyed my parents had lied to me, but i didn't say anything. a few months later, my parents sat us (kids) down and explained there was no father Christmas, and in fact the presents were from them. i was pleased they admitted their mistake and also pleased they liked to buy us presents! i then proceeded to tell all my school friends he didn't exist and got in trouble with the teacher!
so i think we should avoid making it look like he exists and instead focus on the story of Jesus. but it is very interesting for kids to hear how the legend of father Christmas came about (blackmail to make children behave themselves!) and to also hear about the real saint nicholas. of course this is only interesting to kids who grow up in a culture that talks about father Christmas, otherwise it is not relevant.
[quote author=mabsoota link=topic=9853.msg120771#msg120771 date=1287088768] i have visited more than 30 or 40 british churches over the years and most slip in the idea of santa claus and don't explain that the guy at the north pole doesn't really exist. in my experience it does confuse children.
when i was about 7 (having believed in Jesus for 2 years), i worked out that 'father Christmas' could not possibly exist. this was my reasoning: 1. he can fly. humans can't do that so he must be a spirit. 2. if he was from God, he would be in the Bible and he wasn't, so he wasn't sent from God. 3. if he was from the devil he wouldn't give presents to children, so he wasn't from the devil. 4. therefore he doesn't exist.
i was really annoyed my parents had lied to me, but i didn't say anything. a few months later, my parents sat us (kids) down and explained there was no father Christmas, and in fact the presents were from them. i was pleased they admitted their mistake and also pleased they liked to buy us presents! i then proceeded to tell all my school friends he didn't exist and got in trouble with the teacher!
so i think we should avoid making it look like he exists and instead focus on the story of Jesus. but it is very interesting for kids to hear how the legend of father Christmas came about (blackmail to make children behave themselves!) and to also hear about the real saint nicholas. of course this is only interesting to kids who grow up in a culture that talks about father Christmas, otherwise it is not relevant.
Thank you mabsoota!
Now extrapolate that even further in a child's head, or even in an adult's head and see the conclusions they COULD come to about Jesus Christ. Because unlike Santa Claus's image of riding on the clouds on reindeers, and coming down chimneys, Jesus Christ's life was real, His death was real and so was His Resurrection.
Comments
1. In my house Santa is not represented
2. I put up 4-6 Nativity Scenes in my house.
3. I only send out religious Christmas Cards.
4. In my office, I set up a Nativity Scene. No Christmas Tree or the Red Guy.
5. I ask that my American friends write out checks for the poor in Egypt rather than give me a Christmas Present. They like it because it is tax deductible.
6. I greet people with 'A Blessed Christmas', or 'enjoy the Blessings of Christmas', or 'Our Lord is Born for us'.
Little things, but I believe over the years they have had an impact.
But how can parents who do not believe in God give their children any sort of grounding in the faith?
Surely that is only the responsibility of the Church.
The problem with Father Christmas is not the loose connection with St Nicholas, but the rampant materialism which surrounds that time of year. The solution is to preach the Nativity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
As the Church, as the Bride of Christ, we should not be providing to those who are weak in their faith "Fuel" to go and burn any hope of faith in their children. This is done through such means. It is wrong to go and tell your kids a false story of a saint. Its even worse to buy them presents and tell them that "Santa Claus" got it for them.
That's not right.
I just had a discussion with a sunday school teacher who not only agreed with that being dangerous, but stated they had the same problem.
Saint Nicholas is an orthodox saint. We should claim him back, make his story known and refute nonsense about him living in the North Pole, climbing down chimneys etc..
This is serious.
So, parents who do not believe in God, STILL celebrate christmas and buy their kids Christmas presents and tell them that it was from Saint Nicholas, a man dressed in red, who lives in the north pole, who flies on reindeers.
We are the custodians of the saints and their relics. How can you not refute lies being told about a saint??
The lies are so exaggerated that it becomes a mockery of the saint's life rather than a testimony of his love for Christ. When you exaggerate the truth with children you have a detrimental affect on their faith. You can explain things simply to them, sure... but the story of the red guy living in the north pole is not simplifying his story.
I am not sure whether we disagree that what is required is knowledge of Jesus Christ above all else or not.
This is brief as I have just got off a plane.
But the issue is that I don't know any British people who call Father Christmas St Nicholas. There are no lies being told about St Nicholas in the UK because in Britain there is no connection between Father Christmas and St Nicholas.
I am not sure whether we disagree that what is required is knowledge of Jesus Christ above all else or not.
This is brief as I have just got off a plane.
Really?
That explains a lot then.
So, it never occurred to the Brits that Santa Claus is from Saint Nikolaous? They didnt make the connection?
In France, Nancy, they take the feast of Saint Nikolaous quite seriously.
in my experience it does confuse children.
when i was about 7 (having believed in Jesus for 2 years), i worked out that 'father Christmas' could not possibly exist. this was my reasoning:
1. he can fly. humans can't do that so he must be a spirit.
2. if he was from God, he would be in the Bible and he wasn't, so he wasn't sent from God.
3. if he was from the devil he wouldn't give presents to children, so he wasn't from the devil.
4. therefore he doesn't exist.
i was really annoyed my parents had lied to me, but i didn't say anything.
a few months later, my parents sat us (kids) down and explained there was no father Christmas, and in fact the presents were from them.
i was pleased they admitted their mistake and also pleased they liked to buy us presents!
i then proceeded to tell all my school friends he didn't exist and got in trouble with the teacher!
so i think we should avoid making it look like he exists and instead focus on the story of Jesus.
but it is very interesting for kids to hear how the legend of father Christmas came about (blackmail to make children behave themselves!) and to also hear about the real saint nicholas. of course this is only interesting to kids who grow up in a culture that talks about father Christmas, otherwise it is not relevant.
i have visited more than 30 or 40 british churches over the years and most slip in the idea of santa claus and don't explain that the guy at the north pole doesn't really exist.
in my experience it does confuse children.
when i was about 7 (having believed in Jesus for 2 years), i worked out that 'father Christmas' could not possibly exist. this was my reasoning:
1. he can fly. humans can't do that so he must be a spirit.
2. if he was from God, he would be in the Bible and he wasn't, so he wasn't sent from God.
3. if he was from the devil he wouldn't give presents to children, so he wasn't from the devil.
4. therefore he doesn't exist.
i was really annoyed my parents had lied to me, but i didn't say anything.
a few months later, my parents sat us (kids) down and explained there was no father Christmas, and in fact the presents were from them.
i was pleased they admitted their mistake and also pleased they liked to buy us presents!
i then proceeded to tell all my school friends he didn't exist and got in trouble with the teacher!
so i think we should avoid making it look like he exists and instead focus on the story of Jesus.
but it is very interesting for kids to hear how the legend of father Christmas came about (blackmail to make children behave themselves!) and to also hear about the real saint nicholas. of course this is only interesting to kids who grow up in a culture that talks about father Christmas, otherwise it is not relevant.
Thank you mabsoota!
Now extrapolate that even further in a child's head, or even in an adult's head and see the conclusions they COULD come to about Jesus Christ. Because unlike Santa Claus's image of riding on the clouds on reindeers, and coming down chimneys, Jesus Christ's life was real, His death was real and so was His Resurrection.
Can you see now where I'm coming from?