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New Doxology Translations?

SilentOneSilentOne
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
A week or two ago, the Church of St. George and St. Shenouda updated the Liturgy presentation (http://www.stgeorgejc.org/). One of the striking differences I've noticed is the new translations for the english doxologies. Has anyone else downloaded this? And if so, how/why were these massive changes made? If it were a few words here and there I wouldn't really mind, but today my church attempted to do the doxologies and were taken by surprise as almost none of the doxologies were the same.

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=SilentOne link=topic=8150.msg104444#msg104444 date=1246767144]
    A week or two ago, the Church of St. George and St. Shenouda updated the Liturgy presentation (http://www.stgeorgejc.org/). One of the striking differences I've noticed is the new translations for the english doxologies. Has anyone else downloaded this? And if so, how/why were these massive changes made? If it were a few words here and there I wouldn't really mind, but today my church attempted to do the doxologies and were taken by surprise as almost none of the doxologies were the same.


    can you define which ones exactly?

    not that we use them, the version we use in my church are what's online here on the text library.

    the thing that i know is that we, as the Seraphim Chorus, set standard for Saint George's doxology, which they don't use even thought we did it upon their request!!!

    another thing is that they might of changed their text based on the 2nd edition of the liturgy book.
  • SilentOneSilentOne
    Many of the saints doxologies, even Saint Marys! Instead of faithful or trusted advocate, they call her Patroness, etc etc. From what I've noticed most doxologies have been changed, if even just slightly, to different English translations, completely changing the tunes for many.

    I don't have a copy of the 2nd edition liturgy book yet, it should be coming in the mail soon as I ordered it 2-3 weeks ago. Do you think that's where they got their new translation from? And why the sudden change? Was the older translation not suitable or right?
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=SilentOne link=topic=8150.msg104461#msg104461 date=1246839429]
    Many of the saints doxologies, even Saint Marys! Instead of faithful or trusted advocate, they call her Patroness, etc etc. From what I've noticed most doxologies have been changed, if even just slightly, to different English translations, completely changing the tunes for many.

    I don't have a copy of the 2nd edition liturgy book yet, it should be coming in the mail soon as I ordered it 2-3 weeks ago. Do you think that's where they got their new translation from? And why the sudden change? Was the older translation not suitable or right?


    the change of translation concept is really weird when you come to argue (or even talk) with the southern diocese people, lead by HG Bishop Youssef. sometimes, atleast that is my poor and worthless opinion, they fail to consider tunes when translating and also how used a church is to a specific translation.

    BUT, i'll ask someone to maybe compare if they did truly change the text upon Sayedna's request. also, as i remember, the doxologies that are in the book itself were not too much, only the basic ones that most church, or even all, would say.
  • ophadeceophadece
    Mina,
    My opinion is that translation doesn't have to follow any tune. The tunes were constructed for the Coptic language, and the translations since that process began is only to help those who don't understand Coptic to understand what is being prayed. Otherwise, people can just make up new songs, or carols (as opposed to hymns) with a similar meaning to the Coptic hymn as is found in Kiahk Arabic and English melodies. I am totally against translating imperfectly just to follow the tunes - that is not what the purpose of translation is for.
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=ophadece link=topic=8150.msg104468#msg104468 date=1246881558]
    Mina,
    My opinion is that translation doesn't have to follow any tune. The tunes were constructed for the Coptic language, and the translations since that process began is only to help those who don't understand Coptic to understand what is being prayed. Otherwise, people can just make up new songs, or carols (as opposed to hymns) with a similar meaning to the Coptic hymn as is found in Kiahk Arabic and English melodies. I am totally against translating imperfectly just to follow the tunes - that is not what the purpose of translation is for.
    [coptic]oujai qen `P[C[/coptic]


    well. i am with that to. you are perfectly right. so what is needed is a middle ground between both, which what i normally go for if i translate something. also don't forget that this is only needed in hymn that can be said english. like the fast psalies, tasbeha hooses, theotokias or doxologies as we are talking about here. in other hymns, i don't really mind translating literal englsh since it will not be sung (or atleast it's not intended to be). 

    and still, as i see it, most of the translations of the southern diocese are not close to that middle ground.
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