Does anyone know about the particular rites of the Deacon that is supposed to stand before the altar and the burial from the night of Good Friday all the way to the resurrection feast on Saturday night. A book would be most useful or if you could possibly cite your sources that would be great.
From what I know: the deacon is to read all the psalms, the gospel of john is supposed to read, and there is supposed to be certain amount of metanias to be made every hour (not sure how many).
Comments
Does anyone know about the particular rites of the Deacon that is supposed to stand before the altar and the burial from the night of Good Friday all the way to the resurrection feast on Saturday night. A book would be most useful or if you could possibly cite your sources that would be great.
From what I know: the deacon is to read all the psalms, the gospel of john is supposed to read, and there is supposed to be certain amount of metanias to be made every hour (not sure how many).
I have never heard that in my life!!
I am pretty sure it is a tradition in our church, I was able to take its blessing last year even though i am just an epsaltos but i know that it is supposed to be that a full deacon or one of the upper ranking deacons is to stand begore the burial and altar as representative of the soldiers that were near the tomb (however do not quote me on that). I am also aware that there is a book written about its rites but i cannot find it. The rite about reading the book of Saint John i think that just part of the rite that all the gospels are supposed to be read throughout the week.
Saint johns gospel is read Thursday morning. The psalms are read after good Friday.
I would liketo see a book that says so.
I thought that the entire Gospel of Saint Luke was written on Thursday and that that Gospel of Saint John is to be read before or during Easter Sunday. And i am only aware that there is a book that has been written on the particular rites of that tradition however i am do not know the name.
4 days 4gospels. With the book of job Wednesday, the psalms Friday and revelation Saturday
The tradition (from what a father told me) Is to read all the psalms, and read the Gospel of St. John, regardless if it has been read or not, you read the whole book.
i have to disagree...
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101493#msg101493 date=1238694975]
The tradition (from what a father told me) Is to read all the psalms, and read the Gospel of St. John, regardless if it has been read or not, you read the whole book.
i have to disagree...
With what?
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7786.msg101494#msg101494 date=1238698115]
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101493#msg101493 date=1238694975]
The tradition (from what a father told me) Is to read all the psalms, and read the Gospel of St. John, regardless if it has been read or not, you read the whole book.
i have to disagree...
With what?
reading the book again even if it was read. there is order for everything.
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101495#msg101495 date=1238698618]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7786.msg101494#msg101494 date=1238698115]
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101493#msg101493 date=1238694975]
The tradition (from what a father told me) Is to read all the psalms, and read the Gospel of St. John, regardless if it has been read or not, you read the whole book.
i have to disagree...
With what?
reading the book again even if it was read. there is order for everything.
It's what is supposed to be done, you stated before that you have never even heard of this, how can you make the judgment that it shouldn't be done? It isn't something done for the congregation so there is no redundancy, this is strictly a private service.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7786.msg101497#msg101497 date=1238711655]
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101495#msg101495 date=1238698618]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7786.msg101494#msg101494 date=1238698115]
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101493#msg101493 date=1238694975]
The tradition (from what a father told me) Is to read all the psalms, and read the Gospel of St. John, regardless if it has been read or not, you read the whole book.
i have to disagree...
With what?
reading the book again even if it was read. there is order for everything.
It's what is supposed to be done, you stated before that you have never even heard of this, how can you make the judgment that it shouldn't be done? It isn't something done for the congregation so there is no redundancy, this is strictly a private service.
i stated before that we read the Gospel of St. John is read Thursday NOT Friday. i guess i can post this to confirm:
"The priests, according to their ranks, start reading psalms one, two and three until they reach, “I lay down and slept.” Then the curtain of the altar is closed and the hundred and fifty psalms are read."
ثم يبتدئ الكاهن الكبير بقراءة سفر المزامير اول ذلك المزمور الأول والكاهن الثانى المزمور الثانى والكاهن الثالث المزمور الثالث إلى عند (أنا أضجعت ونمت) ويبتدئون بتلاوة المزامير جميعها كطقوسهم كهنة وشمامسة إلى نهايتها.
If it is to say st John's gospel it would of written in that.....or any other pascha book.
It's at the end of this Pascha book: http://tasbeha.org/content/Holy_Week_-_pascha_book.presentation_v1.pdf
or you can get the book and see for yourself if you don't believe me.
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101498#msg101498 date=1238712080]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7786.msg101497#msg101497 date=1238711655]
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101495#msg101495 date=1238698618]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7786.msg101494#msg101494 date=1238698115]
[quote author=Hisservant link=topic=7786.msg101493#msg101493 date=1238694975]
The tradition (from what a father told me) Is to read all the psalms, and read the Gospel of St. John, regardless if it has been read or not, you read the whole book.
i have to disagree...
With what?
reading the book again even if it was read. there is order for everything.
It's what is supposed to be done, you stated before that you have never even heard of this, how can you make the judgment that it shouldn't be done? It isn't something done for the congregation so there is no redundancy, this is strictly a private service.
i stated before that we read the Gospel of St. John is read Thursday NOT Friday. i guess i can post this to confirm:
"The priests, according to their ranks, start reading psalms one, two and three until they reach, “I lay down and slept.” Then the curtain of the altar is closed and the hundred and fifty psalms are read."
ثم يبتدئ الكاهن الكبير بقراءة سفر المزامير اول ذلك المزمور الأول والكاهن الثانى المزمور الثانى والكاهن الثالث المزمور الثالث إلى عند (أنا أضجعت ونمت) ويبتدئون بتلاوة المزامير جميعها كطقوسهم كهنة وشمامسة إلى نهايتها.
If it is to say st John's gospel it would of written in that.....or any other pascha book.
It's at the end of this Pascha book: http://tasbeha.org/content/Holy_Week_-_pascha_book.presentation_v1.pdf
or you can get the book and see for yourself if you don't believe me.
ok, you could be right, but this is for the deacon so this might be different, or it could have just been something to keep those deacons occupied. but from what i understand that's whats to be done.
Does anyone know about the particular rites of the Deacon that is supposed to stand before the altar and the burial from the night of Good Friday all the way to the resurrection feast on Saturday night. A book would be most useful or if you could possibly cite your sources that would be great.
From what I know: the deacon is to read all the psalms, the gospel of john is supposed to read, and there is supposed to be certain amount of metanias to be made every hour (not sure how many).
Apparently, if he moves 3 times, he's out and someone else has to take his place.
I'm not sure what the rules are, but I think it could be interesting if you say "if he falls asleep or gets hungry, then that counts as a disqualification, and he's out until the next go.
But I agree, you should find out what his "rights" are exactly and have them read to him before he takes up the challenge.
I've never heard of this idea before my friend... but I really commend you for the idea.
In our church, all that is done is that we read the entire book of the Psalms. I guess it would be beautiful also to have read the Gospel of St John, but we have never added that. I see no reason why we cannot add the Gospel of St John at the end of the Psalms on Good Friday.
Does anyone know about the particular rites of the Deacon that is supposed to stand before the altar and the burial from the night of Good Friday all the way to the resurrection feast on Saturday night. A book would be most useful or if you could possibly cite your sources that would be great.
From what I know: the deacon is to read all the psalms, the gospel of john is supposed to read, and there is supposed to be certain amount of metanias to be made every hour (not sure how many).
This tradition is common in the Etiopian/Aritrian orthodox church. I have a friend who told me about the standing and fasting until the resurrection. When I asked him if that is not too hard, he referred me to Pslams 51:6 "Let me hear joy and gladness;let the bones that you have broken rejoice".
One stands (until the bones are almost crushed) and fasts for the forgiveness of sins, which makes a lot of sense to me.Though tough, I like this tradition.
[quote author=Lover of the father link=topic=7786.msg101439#msg101439 date=1238521207]
Does anyone know about the particular rites of the Deacon that is supposed to stand before the altar and the burial from the night of Good Friday all the way to the resurrection feast on Saturday night. A book would be most useful or if you could possibly cite your sources that would be great.
From what I know: the deacon is to read all the psalms, the gospel of john is supposed to read, and there is supposed to be certain amount of metanias to be made every hour (not sure how many).
This tradition is common in the Etiopian/Aritrian orthodox church. I have a friend who told me about the standing and fasting until the resurrection. When I asked him if that is not too hard, he referred me to Pslams 51:6 "Let me hear joy and gladness;let the bones that you have broken rejoice".
One stands (until the bones are almost crushed) and fasts for the forgiveness of sins, which makes a lot of sense to me.Though tough, I like this tradition.
but it's not our COPTIC ORTHODOX TRADITION!!!
[quote author=Lover of the father link=topic=7786.msg101439#msg101439 date=1238521207]
Does anyone know about the particular rites of the Deacon that is supposed to stand before the altar and the burial from the night of Good Friday all the way to the resurrection feast on Saturday night. A book would be most useful or if you could possibly cite your sources that would be great.
From what I know: the deacon is to read all the psalms, the gospel of john is supposed to read, and there is supposed to be certain amount of metanias to be made every hour (not sure how many).
This tradition is common in the Etiopian/Aritrian orthodox church. I have a friend who told me about the standing and fasting until the resurrection. When I asked him if that is not too hard, he referred me to Pslams 51:6 "Let me hear joy and gladness;let the bones that you have broken rejoice".
One stands (until the bones are almost crushed) and fasts for the forgiveness of sins, which makes a lot of sense to me.Though tough, I like this tradition.
Hi Mozes,
I'm all for fasting and repentance, but don't you think standing still in front of the Alter from Good Friday until the Resurrection is a tad bit extreme? Isn't that a bit hard?
As far as I'm concerned, I would like to elect Mina for this position.
[quote author=Mozes link=topic=7786.msg101503#msg101503 date=1238719635]
[quote author=Lover of the father link=topic=7786.msg101439#msg101439 date=1238521207]
Does anyone know about the particular rites of the Deacon that is supposed to stand before the altar and the burial from the night of Good Friday all the way to the resurrection feast on Saturday night. A book would be most useful or if you could possibly cite your sources that would be great.
From what I know: the deacon is to read all the psalms, the gospel of john is supposed to read, and there is supposed to be certain amount of metanias to be made every hour (not sure how many).
This tradition is common in the Etiopian/Aritrian orthodox church. I have a friend who told me about the standing and fasting until the resurrection. When I asked him if that is not too hard, he referred me to Pslams 51:6 "Let me hear joy and gladness;let the bones that you have broken rejoice".
One stands (until the bones are almost crushed) and fasts for the forgiveness of sins, which makes a lot of sense to me.Though tough, I like this tradition.
Hi Mozes,
I'm all for fasting and repentance, but don't you think standing still in front of the Alter from Good Friday until the Resurrection is a tad bit extreme? Isn't that a bit hard?
As far as I'm concerned, I would like to elect Mina for this position.
lol. you're funny QT. but as i said before, i am coptic orthodox...not "Etiopian/Aritrian orthodox church".....YOU might be able to do this....having the ability to go to many difference churchs!!!!
Hi Mozes,
I'm all for fasting and repentance, but don't you think standing still in front of the Alter from Good Friday until the Resurrection is a tad bit extreme? Isn't that a bit hard?
As far as I'm concerned, I would like to elect Mina for this position
Qt_PA_2T, I agree,it must be very hard.Maybe comparing to our wickdness and sins,it is nothing.
minagir, I am sorry,but from my reading , you strike me as a fanatic of the coptic church as if other orthdox churchs tradition are worthless and alien. Stop this nonsense,dont tarnish our image and make us look cheap and fanatic.we are not. Our church is humble and recognizes the beauty of other oriental churchs tradition.The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is even larger, the largest amongst the OO, with rich traditions than ours and it is foolish of you to mock it.
If you are a deacon, then it is a shame.I am an open minded person and feel that you are downright rude,not worthy of a deacon in OUR COPTIC CHURCH. Your approach and attitude towards some forum members is evidence enough that it is high time for you to learn some humilty and how to communicate with people without being condescending.
Please think before you write and stop pretending as if you know everything and the church belongs to you alone. Get out from your hole and visit other churchs to eductae yourself.if anything,it is your ignorance about other churchs and rites that is so glaring.
This is my view.
If you are a deacon, then it is a shame.I am an open minded person and feel that you are downright rude,not worthy of a deacon in OUR COPTIC CHURCH. Your approach and attitude towards some forum members is evidence enough that it is high time for you to learn some humilty and how to communicate with people without being condescending.
Please think before you write and stop pretending as if you know everything and the church belongs to you alone. Get out from your hole and visit other churchs to eductae yourself.if anything,it is your ignorance about other churchs and rites that is so glaring.
This is my view.
I didn't say anything about other Orthodox Churchs and i am not denying them. i respect them as much as many of us...(actually sometimes more for their open-mindedness). I myself been in many events that involves many of those churchs. BUT that doesn't stop my zealousness to our Coptic Church. YES I AM PROUD to be coptic Orthodox.....but that should never undermind any other churches.
They have their tradition, we have ours...our faith is the SAME. you can't tell me that "yeah..let's do what they do." i don't think that happends. why do you think that HH ordered the priests to not pray the Ethiopian liturgies?? is he "mocking" them? NO. it's just a line of saparation that WAS ALWAYS THERE since the original One Holy Church.
Yes I am a deacon. An oghnostos in fact.
hmmm....about your other comments, O.K. it is after all "your view"!!!!!!!!!!
I can't change people's minds and i can't stop them from doing anything.
They have their tradition, we have ours...our faith is the SAME. you can't tell me that "yeah..let's do what they do." i don't think that happends
nobody is asking you to follow suit,but when there are thing we do diferently,it is not neccessary to say, Yéah we are copts'. 'Doing that gives the impression,that ours is correct and that of other traditions is suspect.That is the way it sounds when you talk about it.
.
Exactly my point.There is a need for you to explore further so that you know what you are talking about. What do you know? Do you not know that our Coptic church has taken 3 liturgies from the Ethioipian church?? do you know that? How is it possible for HH to declare the ethiopian liturgy unfit for the coptic church? You are not going to get away with ; I would like to see a statement from HH where he orders the clergy to 'not pray ethiopian liturgies', please. It worries me. No one is worthy of serving our Lord without a sense of humility, a virtue that you seem to luck.I have followed your approach and treatment towards one of our active members,QT_PA_2T.Sofar and amazingly, I might add, he has the patience and grace not to reciprocate in kind,and I am not sure if he is a deacon. I am not defending him over you,but I want to give an idea there are many silent readers who might not appreciate your ways and cringe at the thought of your being an ordained deacon.
Again my own unadultered view.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7786.msg101512#msg101512 date=1238725499]
They have their tradition, we have ours...our faith is the SAME. you can't tell me that "yeah..let's do what they do." i don't think that happends
nobody is asking you to follow suit,but when there are thing we do diferently,it is not neccessary to say, Yéah we are copts'. 'Doing that gives the impression,that ours is correct and that of other traditions is suspect.That is the way it sounds when you talk about it.
i haven't talked about it anything. i didn't explain any details. i simply said "that's their tradition and this is ours."
it gives you that impression...ok. i am sorry you see that. i think that's a good thing that you are not an admin but others are. our church have ONLY three liturgies. St. Basil's, St. Gregory's And St. Cyril's (originally St. Mark's). it's is proved that way in our rites books and i canpost them if you have a probelm with that. i will also post the source of the pope declaring that. NO ONE IS WORTHY OF ANYTHING GOD GRANTS US. not me, not you, not anyone.
and again, i will not have any personal comments....it's defies humility?! doesn't it?! and you have every right to say it.
I have followed your approach and treatment towards one of our active members,QT_PA_2T.Sofar and amazingly, I might add, he has the patience and grace not to reciprocate in kind,and I am not sure if he is a deacon. I am not defending him over you,but I want to give an idea there are many silent readers who might not appreciate your ways and cringe at the thought of your being an ordained deacon.
Again my own unadultered view.
Thanks Mozes.
That's awfully kind of you.
Anba Boulis of Africa once said to me "Do you know! If the Church excommunicated me, it would not take away my love for Christ, nor make me do anything against my God".
He said that to me personally at a time when I didnt even know who he was. I just found myself sitting next to him by luck many years ago.
God bless
do you know the name of the book, and i heard that St. JOhn gospel was to be read on Saturday, or after the bright Saturday liturgy and that St. Luke's gospel is to be read Holy Thursday. Also do you know if these are to be read personally or are they read within the church as a group
it's Albair khidmei shamas. I am not sure about st Luke's. also it said as in church.