Hi,
I thought that God told Adam and Eve to be "fruitful and multiply" when He created them. However, I've just recently heard from someone that they only had sex AFTER they hate from the tree of knowedlge. Before that, they didnt know what "attraction" was - they didnt know they were naked. They didnt realise it. So, it was after the fall that they had sex.
Does anyone here have the official Church answer to this?
Thanks
Comments
Hi,
I thought that God told Adam and Eve to be "fruitful and multiply" when He created them. However, I've just recently heard from someone that they only had sex AFTER they hate from the tree of knowedlge. Before that, they didnt know what "attraction" was - they didnt know they were naked. They didnt realise it. So, it was after the fall that they had sex.
Does anyone here have the official Church answer to this?
Thanks
even though i hate these "what if" questions....
I think they didn't know "sex" as in what we have today. think about it; when GOd created Adam, He made him perfect....and Eve being from Adam. when they ate from the tree, their body didn't change, God didn't change their body. sin "corrupted" their body, being able to die. if you think about the "punishment" of God, He just removed something good that they have, which was, being in paradise, having no pain, and resting.
these are just my thought....i would have to wait for a father's response to.
Sexuality is therefore part of how God created us, and is good. How we use our sexuality is the same as how we use every other part of our nature, we are liable to corruption and sin and must strive to use our sexuality in accordance with God's will.
Some people have suggested that sexuality is sinful, and even that sexuality was the means by which Adam and Eve fell into sin. This is not the case. Our sexuality is no more sinful in itself than the need to eat and sleep. But just as these can be the means of gluttony and sloth, so our sexuality can be the means of lust.
But God made Adam and Eve to be male and female and their sexuality, and ours, was good when God created it. It is still good, but we misuse it to our own harm.
In Christ
Peter
Adam and Eve lost the grace of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Nothing else changed, and in their nature they remained as they were created, mortal and corruptible.
Sexuality is therefore part of how God created us, and is good. How we use our sexuality is the same as how we use every other part of our nature, we are liable to corruption and sin and must strive to use our sexuality in accordance with God's will.
Some people have suggested that sexuality is sinful, and even that sexuality was the means by which Adam and Eve fell into sin. This is not the case. Our sexuality is no more sinful in itself than the need to eat and sleep. But just as these can be the means of gluttony and sloth, so our sexuality can be the means of lust.
But God made Adam and Eve to be male and female and their sexuality, and ours, was good when God created it. It is still good, but we misuse it to our own harm.
In Christ
Peter
Hi Peter, Im not too sure that this is true.
In terms of what we've learnt in Sunday School, we believe that God made man in INcorruption; and that through sin, our nature did change. It changed from a nature of INcorruption to a nature of Corruption.
This means that when sin entered man, he became corrupt. It means that he died.
God created man eternal (in INcorruption) - but through the envy of Satan, man chose to disobey and by his opinion, he rejected God's commandment; in doing so his nature changed. He died. He didnt know death BEFORE he sinned.
So, Christ came to redeem us back to our original nature, an eternal INcorrupt nature.
This is not only supported by what we've learnt all these years in Sunday School, but one our most beloved sons of the Church : St Gregory even expresses this in the Holy Liturgy in Gregorian mass:
"O You who created man in Incorruption, and by the envy of Satan...etc" and then he basically says the same I'm saying above.. i.e. that man became corrupt.
So when you say That's far from the truth.
So, yes, I guess we can say that they were created in incorruption. The whole idea of salvation is to return man back to his original state. Why would God want man to be in a state of corruption. THis is not possible for other theological reasons: We were created in the Image and Likeness of God.
If we are created in His Image and Likeness, then our nature should reflect incorruption. But our nature therefore Changed. We die. Corruption is in our nature.
THe contemplations of the Church fathers is clear on this point:
During the period when Christ wept over Lazarus, He didnt just mourn for Lazarus - He wept for mankind's nature that changed : From incorruption to corruption. He wept for our state that we allowed ourselves to become (i.e. that we brought death upon ourselves).
I hope I'm not losing you, but in all serious, if you go to the Kholagy, and you just read St. Basil's liturgy, St. Basil actually explains this clearly in the Holy Mass.
what peter said is 'corruptible' this does not mean 'corrupt' or 'corrupted'. i think his view is compatible with what u say from the holy kholagy, i.e i don't think there are major differences between the british orthodox and the coptic orthodox when it comes to the discussion of sin.
i personally think the church fathers' views differ greatly when it comes to sexuality, some almost seeing celebacy as the only option, others telling of the great holiness that comes from a pure Christian marriage.
i am a married person so i am glad i don't have to be a nun to strive for purity!
hebrews 13:4 'let the marriage bed be kept pure' so the marital acts are considered pure, i.e not corrupted.
i think adam and eve felt no shame at first when they were naked because in their pure state there was no shame even if they had sex.
let us all strive for purity in our celebacy or marriages.
If you read St Athanasius' "on the incarnation" you'll find this explained perfectly as Peter said. Man was by nature corruptible and mortal, but through the special grace of God that was unique for man, they were granted incorruptibility and immortality. However, when they were seperated from God by sin, they lost this special gift, and therefore became corruptible again. In this sense they were created in incorruption, because sin was alien from them and through the grace of God man indeed was incorruptible, yet not by nature.
Peter, plz correct me if I erred ;)
On the incarnation (somewhere on this site, page 9-10)
This is really good that we are all on interested in this.
Now, perhaps this issue cannot be discussed without going into theology. I didnt really expect to have quoted St Gregorious' liturgy in such a subject. But concerning this issue, we did just have a Friday meeting discussion where it was explained to us that our nature did change.
Hos Erof - I think for St. Athanasious's works, you got me in trouble with iqbal last time we talked about that, and then right in the last minute, you left me, and didn't bother to answer him. :-) LOL... he's STILL waiting for you and Orthodox11 to actually finish the topic on atonement - and he left the thread open. I broke a deal with Iqbal that I'd leave u and Orthodox11 to answer him!! That whole topic started because of what st. Athanasious said, and frankly, I'm not even going to comment on it again. Too many bad childhood memories. I don't know...
Everytime you and I Hos Erof get into St. Athansious, sure - its fun... but we end up getting ourselves ex-communicated...
Anyway, today, i feel lucky, and I will quote from St. Athanasious' works "THE INCARNATION OF THE WORD". (see full extract here http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/athanasius/incarnation/incarnation.1.htm) The quote from St. Athanasious that I've given clearly explains that God created man to be ETERNAL (i.e. Incorrupt and IMMORTAL). That's not what Peter was saying.
Now, I need, for my own psychological wellbeing - other sources than St. Athanasious. SImply because Iqbal will come on this forum and just remind us of what happened when we were discussing St Athanasious without him in the loop. So, I'm going to put that aside (EVEN THOUGH I'VE GIVEN PROOF), and focus my friend on St Basil and St Gregory who clearly state in our liturgy the opposite of what Peter is saying:
Our Church fathers say in the kholagy that God created man in INCORRUPTION. This is not what Peter has said.
How can the statement "God created man mortal and corrupt" be the same as "God created man in Incorruption"??
Here are the exact words of St Basil taken from the English translation of the Kholagy: St BASIL is NOT going to contradict St Athanasious!!
Peter said : This is the exact opposite of what St Basil has said above and what St Athanasious has said in the quote I've given.
their body NEVER CHANGED. i hope that SOMEONE reads what i have said below that you may disagree with or proof wrong!!!
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7600.msg99819#msg99819 date=1233191285]
hey.....let's go back to the topic here.
their body NEVER CHANGED. i hope that SOMEONE reads what i have said below that you may disagree with or proof wrong!!!
Mina,
After the fall of man, our nature changed. Man today is not what God had originally created. Everything went pear-shaped when we disobeyed God's commandments. We went from Incorrupt to Corrupt, and now, through God's life giving grace, we are returned back to our former glory: INCORRUPT.
God came to redeem man, to redeem Adam back to his former glory.
http://www.theologywebsite.com/etext/athanasius/ch1.shtml
You know Mina, I wasn't there. I didnt see it happen. But what exactly do you make out from St Basil's liturgy where he CLEARLY states :"God created man in Incorruption"?
This is TOTALLY different than "God created man mortal and corrupt" - God did not create ANYTHING bad or corrupt. It became corrupt by our will and the envy of satan.
Look, you know what??? Why not ask Iqbal? He loves topics like this. I couldnt care less. I just wanted to know whether or not adam and eve were sexually active before or after they sinned?
it's a waste of time to reply to your post QT.....
Is that because you just realised you were wrong? That man's nature DID in fact change? That's how we inherit the orginal sin. We inherit a corrupt nature. What exactly is so sinister in any of this?
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7600.msg99822#msg99822 date=1233192339]
it's a waste of time to reply to your post QT.....
Is that because you just realised you were wrong? That man's nature DID in fact change? That's how we inherit the orginal sin. We inherit a corrupt nature. What exactly is so sinister in any of this?
nope. it's because you havn't answer what i said, instead, you repeated YOURSELF...am not answering anymore.
hey.....let's go back to the topic here.
their body NEVER CHANGED. i hope that SOMEONE reads what i have said below that you may disagree with or proof wrong!!!
I've answered it:
Their nature changed!! They were CREATED as eternal beings. Sin entered their being. Their nature therefore changed. We inherit this "corrupt" nature. That is what is meant when we say that we are born with the original sin. That we are prone to death - we are prone to corruption. So, from the original plan of God (that was to create man in INCORRUPTION we ended up with a corrupt version of what God had intended: i.e we die.
God wanted to redeem our natures - back to its former intention or design.
This is answering your point. We were originally created in incorruption (i.e. not knowing death), then through disobeyment of God's commandments - sin not only entered our nature, but changed it, and hence we inherit this nature: a nature that dies.
Which part of your question have i not answered??
QT,
If you read St Athanasius' "on the incarnation" you'll find this explained perfectly as Peter said. Man was by nature corruptible and mortal, but through the special grace of God that was unique for man, they were granted incorruptibility and immortality. However, when they were seperated from God by sin, they lost this special gift, and therefore became corruptible again. In this sense they were created in incorruption, because sin was alien from them and through the grace of God man indeed was incorruptible, yet not by nature.
Peter, plz correct me if I erred ;)
On the incarnation (somewhere on this site, page 9-10)
Matt, you mis read St Athanasious!!
I just quoted the same as you and realised afterwards it was from 2 different prints!!
I think St Athanasious in your quote is saying that men are in a state of corruption when they disobey God's Commandments. But when Adam and Eve sinned at the beginning this changed their nature. Even God said that!
God said "If you eat of this fruit, you shall surely die"
Therefore, by NOT eating it, they HAD eternal life. They were IMMORTAL. They were INcorrupt!!
What happened everyone? I thought this was obvious??
Am i missing something here??
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7600.msg99822#msg99822 date=1233192339]
it's a waste of time to reply to your post QT.....
Is that because you just realised you were wrong? That man's nature DID in fact change? That's how we inherit the orginal sin. We inherit a corrupt nature. What exactly is so sinister in any of this?
Wrong, We do not inherit original sin, its the corrupted nature.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=7600.msg99824#msg99824 date=1233192730]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=7600.msg99822#msg99822 date=1233192339]
it's a waste of time to reply to your post QT.....
Is that because you just realised you were wrong? That man's nature DID in fact change? That's how we inherit the orginal sin. We inherit a corrupt nature. What exactly is so sinister in any of this?
Wrong, We do not inherit original sin, its the corrupted nature.
Pardon me?
We inherit this corrupt nature simply by virtue of the fact that man's original nature changed. He became corrupt. We inherit this corrupt nature??
Look, this is basic knowledge, there's no confusion in our Church about this.
What is going on!?
We are against the Catholic Church on the issue of the Immaculate Conception of St Mary because we believe she was born of NORMAL parents. That she inherited the original sin LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. And that's in the fact that she died. Its a fact that we all die that is proof we have inherited a corrupt nature. This corrupt nature is what we inherit.
What are you saying exactly??
I am saying that we do NOT inherit the guilt for the sin of Adam.. that's his problem. We inherit the nature that resulted from when he sinned. THis is called the original sin. and it is what we inherit.
We carry the consequence of original sin, but not the sin itself, to say that is heretical and I don't know what church you've gone to, but the COC doesn't believe in us carrying the original sin, but the corrupt nature. This is a misconception in the west that came from the times of Christ. The disciples asked who sinned, this man or his parents that he is born blind. but he said Neither this man nor his parents sinned but that God may be Glorified through him. He was responding to this misconception(I heard this from a sermon) showing that you do not carry the sins of your parents, but possibly the consequence of their sins. Like we do with Adam and Eve. We do not carry the sins of any except our own, there are no exceptions, God is constant and consistant, if you don't carry the sins of your father, then you don't carry the sins of Adam.
I am Coptic, and very Orthodox.
As I said we inherit a corrupt nature - not the guilt of the sin that adam committed. I'm NOT saying that we inherit any guilt from that sin. But we inherit the consequences of the original sin... yes.. here we can agree! BUT THIS WHAT I WAS SAYING!!
You are just messing around with terms that result in the same thing.
You know very well that when we say in our Church we inherit the original sin MEANs we are inheriting a corrupt nature that is a result of Adam's sin.
Do you find doing that in a forum edifying?
I don't know what you mean by your last statement, but there is a difference in saying carry original sin and carrying a corrupt nature due to it. I'm just stating a misconception. You will not find anywhere in our church that we say we carry the original sin.
Wrong. We say in our Church that we inherit the original sin. This means that we inherit a corrupt nature. In a sense, it does perhaps require some explanation as some people maybe confused by this. They MAY think that they inherit some guilt that is the result of adam's sin and hence they must live all their lives in guilt. LOL..
This is not right. ANd I am not saying that. I am saying that the original sin we inherit is basically the corrupt nature. We inherit a corrupt nature (i..e a nature that dies). You agree?? But this nature that dies (being corrupt) is the result of Adam's sin!! Adam's nature changed when he sinned.
Therefore it is NORMAL to say that we INHERIT "the original sin" simply because we are all paying the price for adam's sin IN our nature that is now prone to death.
We inherit the consequences of that sin. You said it!! And the consequences of that original sin is that we die. We are no longer incorrupt.
I think we are clear on this (BY NOW!!).
If you still wish to carry on in this vein, that's fine; but the discussion is now focusing on the statement by Peter who said that God created man "corrupt and mortal".
This is NOT true. God created man INCORRUPT and IMMORTAL.
I think you get the picture that we inherit a corrupt nature. That Adam's nature changed and we inherit that!! We're his offspring!!
His nature changed, and we inherit that.. its basic genetics.
But his nature was NOT this when God created him. God created him ETERNAL, IMMORTAL and INCORRUPT, and by the envy of satan, he was deceived and chose, by his free will to disobey God's commandments and his nature changed "HE DIED!".
He was not susceptible to death BEFORE disobeying GOd. After disobeying God, He - and his wife entered a nature of corruption. That was the price for sin. That they die. We INHERIT this nature. This is called inheriting the ORIGINAL SIN!!!! Its the RIGHT term to use.
I don't know what you mean by your last statement, but there is a difference in saying carry original sin and carrying a corrupt nature due to it. I'm just stating a misconception. You will not find anywhere in our church that we say we carry the original sin.
I think the problem here is that there is confusion by what the term "inherit the original sin" means.
We do use this term in the ORthodox Church, but FOR US, it means as I've said "that we inherit the consequences of a corrupt nature".
Unfortunately, and I am WELL AWARE of this, that for some churches they take this to mean that they are born in a state of guilt, and they are guilty and unworthy, and filthy. This is not right. Its not the definition we uphold in the CoC.
Now, we still use the term "original sin" in our Church, but the ONLY problem is that Catholics use it in a different sense.
I am using the term "original sin" to mean that we inherit a corrupt nature (i.e. WHICH IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE ORIGINAL SIN). Perhaps there are some catholics that believe this also. I think its changing.
REGARDLESS!! ITs the same for the purposes of this discussion that we BOTH know very well that we inherit the CONSEQUENCES OF THE ORIGINAL SIN.
And as a result, the consequences of the original sin is that we die.
But Adam was not created originally in God's plan to die. God created man eternally, without sin and in INCORRUPTION.
This is the MAIN POINT!!
You need to read St Cyril and Sy Severus. They will explain the theology of our Church. It is different to what you have said, and though I am wrong on many things I know that on this I have said what our Fathers St Cyril and St Severus teach very clearly.
I do not wish to argue so I wont here, but what I said is what they say and it is our Orthodox theology.
In Christ
Peter
Hi QT_PA_2T
You need to read St Cyril and Sy Severus. They will explain the theology of our Church. It is different to what you have said, and though I am wrong on many things I know that on this I have said what our Fathers St Cyril and St Severus teach very clearly.
I do not wish to argue so I wont here, but what I said is what they say and it is our Orthodox theology.
In Christ
Peter
No, Peter, please don't worry, its no argument. I'm not attached to my point of view. But this subject was clearly explained to us so recently as well as on this forum AGES ago and at many times.
You wish me to read st. Severus and St Cyril. That's great! But I wish you to read st Basil who said:
You stated that God created man in Corruption. That already goes against Saint Basil, and it goes against St. Athanasious who confirms this. I've highlighted his perspective on this. St Gregory also states the same in his liturgy, and even explains a bit more saying "by my opinion i disobeyed your law, and brought death unto myself". All of these theologians are in accord that God created man in INCORRUPTION.
St Cyril is the pillar of faith, so I'm sure he's already aware of this. Which part of St Cyril do you wish me to read? Please give me the references.
Please Peter, do tell me where I can find these references - it would be great if you could also cut and paste them.
We are all here to learn, and I'm eager to find out. I'm not at all saying anything from my opinion here, but things that I've learnt from the CoC. Sometimes, there are misconceptions (as seen by the side topic of the original sin, where at the end of the day, we are both agreeing on the same principle: that we inherit the consequences of the sin, not the guilt of the sin".)- so we need to be patient with one another and explain our point of view.
I've given quotes from our Fathers and from CoC literature supporting my opinion.
Please do the same, otherwise this forum is not educating anyone.
Once you've done that, could you kindly go back to the original topic and focus on when Adam and Eve had sex: before or after the fall.
I never said that God created Adam and Eve in corruption, but as mortal and corruptible. There is a world of difference.
I am at work and will need to pull out my files but the quote from St Basil should not be taken out of unity with the very substantial teaching of St Cyril and St Severus. Immortality and physical Incorruptibility were gifts of God over and above the human nature with which Adam and Eve were endowed. When they sinned they lost these gifts and found themselves mortal and corruptible, as they were created.
They were given all that they needed to live as immortal and incorruptible, as you quote from the Liturgy, but in their own natures they were mortal and corruptible as St Cyril and St Severus very clearly teach.
I will provide quotes when I have a moment.
Peter
You have changed what I said.
I never said that God created Adam and Eve in corruption, but as mortal and corruptible. There is a world of difference.
I am at work and will need to pull out my files but the quote from St Basil should not be taken out of unity with the very substantial teaching of St Cyril and St Severus. Immortality and physical Incorruptibility were gifts of God over and above the human nature with which Adam and Eve were endowed. When they sinned they lost these gifts and found themselves mortal and corruptible, as they were created.
They were given all that they needed to live as immortal and incorruptible, as you quote from the Liturgy, but in their own natures they were mortal and corruptible as St Cyril and St Severus very clearly teach.
I will provide quotes when I have a moment.
Peter
yes!! I SEE!!!!!!
PHEW!
That's true. You mean we had the potential to be corruptible???
But, Peter - OK. That's right. I think I agree with that. That we had the potential to be corruptible. That's very true.
However, we were created IMMORTAL. Not mortal.
The reason is:
God said "if you eat of this fruit, you shall surely die". It means that by them NOT eating, they were already living... ETERNALLY - they were created immortal.
Man was created corruptible, to say he was created incorruptible would be the same as claiming he didn't have free will and couldn't sin (and thus get corrupted)
And about the original sin, jydeacon is right, we do inherit the corrupt nature which was the result of the original sin, BUT jydeacon, QT is right in that the church (or at least some clergy) do wrongly say we inhertit the original sin, in fact, I heard the Pope himself say this a couple of times, which got me confused also, but in the end, I think it's being used as a matter of habit, but referring in the end to the corrupt nature
Now QT to get back to the original question, Genesis 4 says:
Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
The bible mentions them having sex for the first time after they had sinned (or at least it might be interpreted this way).. Also, notice, only then did Eve become pregnant, so unless they did have sex before whereby Eve didn't get pregnant, then this would be the first time
But anyways, sex is not a sin as some claim it is, since God said: be fruitful and multiply even before they fell, thus he had meant for them to have sex and bring forth children already in their corruptible but uncorrupted nature...
God bless
Please pray for my weakness and correct me if I'm wrong
Guys, like Mabsoota said: there is a difference between corruptED and corruptiBLE!!!
Man was created corruptible, to say he was created incorruptible would be the same as claiming he didn't have free will and couldn't sin (and thus get corrupted)
And about the original sin, jydeacon is right, we do inherit the corrupt nature which was the result of the original sin, BUT jydeacon, QT is right in that the church (or at least some clergy) do wrongly say we inhertit the original sin, in fact, I heard the Pope himself say this a couple of times, which got me confused also, but in the end, I think it's being used as a matter of habit, but referring in the end to the corrupt nature
Now QT to get back to the original question, Genesis 4 says:
Adam lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
The bible mentions them having sex for the first time after they had sinned (or at least it might be interpreted this way).. Also, notice, only then did Eve become pregnant, so unless they did have sex before whereby Eve didn't get pregnant, then this would be the first time
But anyways, sex is not a sin as some claim it is, since God said: be fruitful and multiply even before they fell, thus he had meant for them to have sex and bring forth children already in their corruptible but uncorrupted nature...
God bless
Please pray for my weakness and correct me if I'm wrong
Yes - I realised this mistake I made from Peter's comment. He is right when he says that were made Corruptible - i.e. with the potential to be corrupt.
I just, for the life of me, cannot see how God created us mortal. We were created Immortal with the potential also to lose this mortality.
That's the ONLY part we are in disagreement about.
So, now Godislove, the conversation gets really interesting cos:
God said to Adam and Eve :"Be fruitful and multiply" - that's when he created them immortal and incorrupt in their nature.
But being of this nature, how on earth would they have found each other attractive if they didnt even know they were naked? Its as if this desire could not have existed unless they had disobeyed God (as by disobeying God, they realised that they were naked).
So, how on earth could God tell them to be fruitful and multiply if they didnt know what sex was? If there was no sexual attraction between them?? If, by virtue of their innocence they did not have these desires?
Maybe I'm wrong.. but it seems that the Church says that they only had sex after they've fallen.. and that they COULD not have had sex BEFORE. That just makes me really confused as God told them to be fruitful and multiply before they even thought about eating from any tree.
Does that make sense?
God created Adam mortal but breathed his Holy Spirit into Adam and gave him the gift of immortality.
It is this gift which he lost when he sinned, and it is this gift which Christ comes to renew in humanity by his incarnation.
Peter
Just going into a meeting so cannot post...
God created Adam mortal but breathed his Holy Spirit into Adam and gave him the gift of immortality.
It is this gift which he lost when he sinned, and it is this gift which Christ comes to renew in humanity by his incarnation.
Peter
Well I guess that's another problem closed. I think we are all in agreement here.
I didnt get that by your original post, but I think its clear there was mis-interpretations.
I'm glad by the way that we are all in agreement.. it makes me feel good.
Put it this way: I CAN agree with that. Its not really how I thought about it, but it does work with what we've been taught already. Its in accordance with what we've learnt.
Now, feel free to focus on my original topic.
Just going into a meeting so cannot post...
God created Adam mortal but breathed his Holy Spirit into Adam and gave him the gift of immortality.
It is this gift which he lost when he sinned, and it is this gift which Christ comes to renew in humanity by his incarnation.
Peter
If anyone has a problem with this explanation - just start a new thread for it. This is beyond my knowledge to comment further. I just know that God created man in incorruption, and he was created immortal.
Its just a lot of people believe that the Life Giving Holy Spirit is what we receive in confirmation after baptism. But yet, our bodies still are corrupt (i,e, we die). Yes, our spiritual nature is renewed and we are eternal spiritual beings... yes. But we still die despite having the gift again of God's Holy Spirit. So our nature doesnt completely revert back to what God had created after baptism as we still die. But the original man (Adam) - his nature was immortal - i.e. he did not die. If he hadn't eaten from the tree- he would not have died. Yet despite us having this grace upon us again of God's Life Giving Holy Spirit, we still die. So, for me, this explanation is still incomplete - but it is acceptable.
It is my lack of theological knowledge that is perhaps blocking. I don't know.. but there's something in this explanation that doesnt make sense to me: If God created man mortal, and it was only through God's life giving Holy Spirit that made him IMMORTAL, then why do we still die when we are baptised? Adam didnt know what a physical injury was. Adam didnt know what hard work or labour was. Adam didnt know what death was until he disobeyed God's commandments. His nature was immortal, yet despite being returned back to our original nature, we still die. Despite having the Holy Spirit, we still die.
Don't we???