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2 Eve

NESS55NESS55
edited December 2008 in Non-Orthodox Inquiries
ok here is a question i have been thinking about

Jesus Christ is the 2nd Adam then who is the 2nd Eve?

is it mary or the Church? or is there one at all?

NESS<><

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=NESS55 link=topic=7467.msg98601#msg98601 date=1229739000]
    ok here is a question i have been thinking about

    Jesus Christ is the 2nd Adam then who is the 2nd Eve?

    is it mary or the Church? or is there one at all?

    NESS<><


    I would have to say the Church. the Church is the Bride of Christ. we have all the poetic OT books contemplating on this relationship as between a Man and His beloved.
  • socoolbishoysocoolbishoy
    Saint Mary is called the "second Eve"

    here is a good article you can read...

    http://www.stmarkla.org/content/view/66/134/

    akhadna el baraka... neshkor Allah!
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    A lot of symbols go for both St Mary and the church, cause in her character we find the ultimate example of what the church should be like!!!!
    The tabernacle is symbol of the church because God's presence was in it,
    but also St Mary because she is the one who gave birth to Christ, and there's many zillions of examples like this!!!!
  • Pharaoh714Pharaoh714
    [quote author=NESS55 link=topic=7467.msg98601#msg98601 date=1229739000]
    ok here is a question i have been thinking about

    Jesus Christ is the 2nd Adam then who is the 2nd Eve?

    is it mary or the Church? or is there one at all?

    NESS<><


    I dont think theres a 2nd eve because  when we say Jesus is the 2nd adam , we are basicly saying he is the 2nd male human on earth with out sin and with the perfect human nature.  Remember Adam and eve were Created perfect and through sin we are all born with this corrupt lustful nature.  St mary is not fully the 2nd even because we believe she was a sinner unlike the cathlics.
  • NESS55NESS55
    [quote author=Pharaoh714 link=topic=7467.msg100242#msg100242 date=1234529056]
    [quote author=NESS55 link=topic=7467.msg98601#msg98601 date=1229739000]
    ok here is a question i have been thinking about

    Jesus Christ is the 2nd Adam then who is the 2nd Eve?

    is it mary or the Church? or is there one at all?

    NESS<><


    I dont think theres a 2nd eve because  when we say Jesus is the 2nd adam , we are basicly saying he is the 2nd male human on earth with out sin and with the perfect human nature.  Remember Adam and eve were Created perfect and through sin we are all born with this corrupt lustful nature.  St mary is not fully the 2nd even because we believe she was a sinner unlike the cathlics.


    were adam and eve perfect or innocent.. if they were perfect how could a perfect being sin?

    just trying to understand the term u used by "perfect" thats all

    you have a vary good point about St. Mary not being perfect what is the major distinction between the veneration of Mary in the Orthodox vrs the Catholic?

    NESS<><
  • mabsootamabsoota
    we in the orthodox church (at least the oriental orthodox, am not sure about eastern orthodox) do not believe mary was born without sin (immaculate conception).
    we think she was an amazing person and she shows us how to obey God and live the Christian life, and we believe, like all the saints, she is watching from heaven and encouraging us (hebrews 12:1, the great cloud of witnesses).
    that is why orthodox Christians ask mary and the other saints to pray for them to God, it is not because we can't pray to God directly (most formal orthodox prayers are directly to God), it is because we believe the fellowship of believers is not divided by death, so in the same way you might as your friend or your spiritual mother/father for prayers, we ask for prayers for those who have gone before.
    may God, by his Holy Spirit, lead us all into all truth
  • Pharaoh714Pharaoh714
    [quote author=NESS55 link=topic=7467.msg100243#msg100243 date=1234530587]
    [quote author=Pharaoh714 link=topic=7467.msg100242#msg100242 date=1234529056]
    [quote author=NESS55 link=topic=7467.msg98601#msg98601 date=1229739000]
    ok here is a question i have been thinking about

    Jesus Christ is the 2nd Adam then who is the 2nd Eve?

    is it mary or the Church? or is there one at all?

    NESS<><


    I dont think theres a 2nd eve because  when we say Jesus is the 2nd adam , we are basicly saying he is the 2nd male human on earth with out sin and with the perfect human nature.  Remember Adam and eve were Created perfect and through sin we are all born with this corrupt lustful nature.  St mary is not fully the 2nd even because we believe she was a sinner unlike the cathlics.


    were adam and eve perfect or innocent.. if they were perfect how could a perfect being sin?

    just trying to understand the term u used by "perfect" thats all

    you have a vary good point about St. Mary not being perfect what is the major distinction between the veneration of Mary in the Orthodox vrs the Catholic?

    NESS<><


    Sorry I dont check this often but by perfect I mean  dont long(want) for Sin as we do now.. our nature has been corrupted and we inherited this from Adam the longing for sin. As much as we love God we also love sin (sadly to say) Christ did not long for sin neither did he Sin. We (copts) dont believe that Sin is passed on we believe that we inherited the weakened nature of Adam not  sins.

  • Boricua_OrthodoxBoricua_Orthodox
    I am checking which holy fathers called the Lord Jesus the '2nd Adam' or 'Last Adam' (maybe St Ireneus of Lyons?) but the Scripture verses which come to mind that alludes to this is: 1 Corinthians 15:22 (New King James Version)
    "22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."
    And:
    1 Timothy 2:13,14: "13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression."

    It's easy to see how the Lord Christ can be called the 2nd Adam since thru the first one sin and death entered the world and thru the 2nd one, redemption and salvation entered the world! The 1st Eve was deceived when the serpent lied to her but the 2nd Eve was enlightened by the Archangel, St Gabriel.

    If anyone finds quotes from the fathers please post them. It will help alot. Thanks. 


  • peterfarringtonpeterfarrington
    Saint Cyril says..

    Now our Lord Jesus Christ who has been called the Second Adam and the second beginning of our race after the first, reformed us for incorruptibility.

    Saint Severus says..

    ..he himself became, to form us and engender us anew, the first-fruits of this spiritual birth, in being born himself the first in this manner and in becoming a Second Adam.

    Saint Gregory Nazianzus says..

    ..who is a new Adam for us..

    Saint Severus says..

    ..for this reason we say that we have become subjects of sin and of the curse, by the fact that the mortal character is inherent to us, the nature which Christ, the Second Adam, destroyed, in becoming for us the first-fruits of our resurrection..

    Saint Cyril and Saint Severus speak more of Christ as the second beginning, which obviously also includes the thought of Adam as the first beginning.

    Father Peter
  • Boricua_OrthodoxBoricua_Orthodox
    [glow=red,2,300]In the Name of the Father+ and of the Son+ and of the Holy Spirit+, the One True God. Amen.[/glow]
    [glow=red,2,300]Christ is Risen![/glow]

      Good question! To begin with we must first understand what is typology. I am taking this from "The Orthodox Study Bible", page 190:

    " Typology is the interpretation of certain historical events occuring in the Old Testament as "types" that prefigure events to be fulfilled through the Incarnation of the Son of God, and in His life and ministry as confirmed in the New Testament. In each case, the type- the first event -is linked to its corresponding future event, called the "antitype". It is a relationship that begins with a promise and ends with a fulfillment in Christ."

    " Types are in action what prophecy is in words: through them both, truths about Christ, His Mother, the Church, the Sacraments, and the Kingdom of Heaven are revealed."
     
      The Holy Fathers used typology when interpreting Scripture. Thus Church Fathers such as St. Irenaeus of Lyons (130-200 AD) and Tertullian (160-230 AD) connected the Holy Theotokos with Eve. St. Ireneaus says:


    "This demonstrates the corresponding reference from Mary back to Eve... So it was that the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the Virgin Mary set free through faith."

             
                                  -The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1.455, Henderickson Publishers.


    Tertullian said:

    "As Eve had believed the serpent, so Mary believed the angel."
                       
                                                  -Ibid; 3.536                             



    Thus Eve was a type or a foreshadowing of the Holy Virgin Mary. The first Eve helped bring sin and death into the world by the fruit of tree, salvation and eternal life is possible through the second Eve and the fruit of the Cross! Christ is Risen from the Dead, trampling down death by death and to those in the tombs bestowing life!
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