Hello,
I'd like to know how to make my own Coptic Orthodox Church? Now, obviously, i want to do one that belongs under the patriarchate of Alexandria, under H.H Pope Shenouda. I'm not interested in doing a Max-Michel move and making my own Church at all. Can u imagine Pope QT_PA_2T? I just want to initiate a new Coptic Orthodox Church in Paris. But how do i do it? What's the starting point?
Let's say I find a small Catholic or Protestant CHurch in Paris for sale or rent to be a Coptic Church... what then?
I'm scared to go through ANY priest in Paris because, quite frankly, they all have their own mortgages to pay for their little churches in the suburbs, and they wouldnt want another Church in paris. (all that jealousy etc will hinder this project).
How do I get the Pope to send a monk over to help us with the services??
What's the procedure?
Let's say I find a good place that's FREE even for us to use every sunday. What then? we need a priest/monk who can do the vespers and mass... what do i do? Is there a Helpline we can call for new Services??
Comments
1) Talk to bishop
2) Rent/buy/build church (if captial is available, else you will have to think of some scheme to find the money.
3) And then a priest will be assigned, or ordained to the church.
Vas - the bishop is your next port of call
pray for me
joe
Come on Vas... use your head. Who is the head of the diocese of France in your area, H.G. Anba Athanasius or was it the late H.G. Anba Markos? Talk to them, explain the situation, and if you have the resources financial-wise or if you don't, some schemes can be drawn up to allow you to gain the capital required.
1) Talk to bishop
2) Rent/buy/build church (if captial is available, else you will have to think of some scheme to find the money.
3) And then a priest will be assigned, or ordained to the church.
Vas - the bishop is your next port of call
pray for me
joe
Joe,
We don't have a bishop in Paris. Neither of the 2 French Bishops had any involvement with Paris. All we have in Paris are just monks - that's it.
Look, what if we have the lolly to just rent a church, but not enough to pay for a monk? What happens?
OK.. let's say we get the money to pay for a monk - WHO IN EGYPT DO WE CALL TO GET THE ball rolling?
No bishop.... well then, talk to one of your priests... he will surely have the phone of a bishop, or will know what to do
Joe,
You've got NO idea how dangerous that advice is. THat's why i'm asking on here.
THere's a priest here that REFUSES (categorically REFUSES) to pray with any other priest. He won't have it. He won't and has openly said that none of "his youth" should be taken from him to go to any other Church.
It reminds me of Saint Paul who said :"Did I baptise you in my name or in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? (when he realised that the followers were describing themselves as disciples of such and such apostle).
Its awful. I hate to talk about these issues here, but frankly, their squabling is far from productive.
ANY PRIEST, monk if you'd like to consider them too, cannot pray a liturgy keda without telling the bishop of the area.
Yeah Mina is right, you have to see some bishop - anywhere.... come to the UK and talk to H.G. Anba Angelos.... go on his website: http://www.copticcentre.com/contactus.html and their is his number... talk to him, and I'm sure he will pass you on to a Bishop where you are
pray for me
joe
Joe,
You've got NO idea how dangerous that advice is. THat's why i'm asking on here.
THere's a priest here that REFUSES (categorically REFUSES) to pray with any other priest. He won't have it. He won't and has openly said that none of "his youth" should be taken from him to go to any other Church.
It reminds me of Saint Paul who said :"Did I baptise you in my name or in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? (when he realised that the followers were describing themselves as disciples of such and such apostle).
Its awful. I hate to talk about these issues here, but frankly, their squabling is far from productive.
I know exactly what you mean QT_PA_2T! I am having the same problem trying to organize an Orhtodox Church. The squabbling is very unproductive. It made me think of St Paul also; Christ is forgotten so quickly.
Joe,
You've got NO idea how dangerous that advice is. THat's why i'm asking on here.
THere's a priest here that REFUSES (categorically REFUSES) to pray with any other priest. He won't have it. He won't and has openly said that none of "his youth" should be taken from him to go to any other Church.
It reminds me of Saint Paul who said :"Did I baptise you in my name or in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? (when he realised that the followers were describing themselves as disciples of such and such apostle).
Its awful. I hate to talk about these issues here, but frankly, their squabling is far from productive.
I know exactly what you mean QT_PA_2T! I am having the same problem trying to organize an Orhtodox Church. The squabbling is very unproductive. It made me think of St Paul also; Christ is forgotten so quickly.
Gosh do u live in France Elsi??
Its really awful the squabbling. Anba Angealos knows.. he can do nothing. What can he do? Excommunicate them? Not at all.
One sunday, this priest (that refuses his youth and "HIS" congregation to pray in other churches, NOR attend events together) was ill. Another priest was asked to pray the mass instead of him (just for that sunday).
He prays the mass, and during the sermon says :"I want to make it absolutely clear that I'm here for only 1 mass. I won't stay longer. "
Then he continued ON AND ON about how sorry he was for offending anyone by his presence for the mass, but said "This is not my fault, abouna XXXXXX is ill, so i'm obliged to pray the mass instead until he comes back. I promise u i will leave as soon as he is better".
Plz Pray for me
One last advice is to go bottom-up meaning talk to a priest first, then Bishop, then the Pope, letter to H.H Pope Shenoda is a formality. Everyone simply needs to feel you are serious about the idea and it’s stable community i.e. families lived there for many years.
Above all…
1. PRAY and PRAY and PRAY.. did I mention PRAY.
2. Have group of people meet once a week and pray for an hour.
3. Choose a saint and tell him/her “this is your church… it’s your fight” trust me he/she will do everything for you.
[quote author=elsi70x7 link=topic=6633.msg89045#msg89045 date=1212287516]
Joe,
You've got NO idea how dangerous that advice is. THat's why i'm asking on here.
THere's a priest here that REFUSES (categorically REFUSES) to pray with any other priest. He won't have it. He won't and has openly said that none of "his youth" should be taken from him to go to any other Church.
It reminds me of Saint Paul who said :"Did I baptise you in my name or in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? (when he realised that the followers were describing themselves as disciples of such and such apostle).
Its awful. I hate to talk about these issues here, but frankly, their squabling is far from productive.
I know exactly what you mean QT_PA_2T! I am having the same problem trying to organize an Orhtodox Church. The squabbling is very unproductive. It made me think of St Paul also; Christ is forgotten so quickly.
Gosh do u live in France Elsi??
Its really awful the squabbling. Anba Angealos knows.. he can do nothing. What can he do? Excommunicate them? Not at all.
One sunday, this priest (that refuses his youth and "HIS" congregation to pray in other churches, NOR attend events together) was ill. Another priest was asked to pray the mass instead of him (just for that sunday).
He prays the mass, and during the sermon says :"I want to make it absolutely clear that I'm here for only 1 mass. I won't stay longer. "
Then he continued ON AND ON about how sorry he was for offending anyone by his presence for the mass, but said "This is not my fault, abouna XXXXXX is ill, so i'm obliged to pray the mass instead until he comes back. I promise u i will leave as soon as he is better".
QT_, my friend, no i'm not in France - i'm on Bermuda Island....
They used to call this the Devil's Isle and I think i am beginning to understand why now!!! I can't even explain the mess that is going on with the Church here. It is all so foul and so far from God. Can u imagine? It is too horrible even to speak about and on such a small island of 22sq miles everyone is affected.
QT, i've been advised to stay away from our priests by an Abba who does not live here. Can u imagine such a life!!?? The Abba asked me to organize another Church; but no one seems to see the importance. You see i do not think Bermuda has ever known the real joy of full, complete Orthodox worship; there is always too little priests or deacons; we even had a priest once who hardly spoke english....that was fun.
I had hoped to share the righteous richness and complete joy of Full Orthodox worship i saw and experienced in Ethiopia with Bermuda......but now i don't know. I'm wondering if i should just flee!
Tell me why does the one priest refuse to pray with the other??
My heart goes out to u.
What's bad is that we were just talking about how to resist satan, and the answer is through God's grace. How do we unite with His Grace? Through the Holy Sacraments, of which priests play an important part. God forgive them. They have no idea how much their egos are destroying our lives.
THe priest in France, since the very beginning has hated to pray with any other priest. Why? Well.. because its "his" church. "His" congregation. "His" Turf. It sounds a bit like gang warfare - doesn't it? Its very silly.
A priest from another church asked me to build a database of names and addresses of all the Coptic Youth in France, so they can be kept in touch about any khelwas etc.. so i called him up and said that I was asked to do that. He said "No!!! You'll take my youth away from me!!!!".
lol - very sad individual.
ANd why Oh WHY does H.H. INSIST on giving us priests that are ignorant in English or French?? Why????
Why does he insist on doing that?? I mean, it gets to the point where it gets embarassing just to listen to them.
There are just 2 priests in France that speak normal french (thank God). They are fluent in 3 languages. The rest... O dear... its an embarassement to hear them speak. Like, u cannot imagine, french is such a delicate language. U have to speak correctly. There's no slang. All slang is vulgar. There's this one priest that REALLY speaks vulgar French. I mean, its offensive. I'm not sure whether he does it to appeal to the youth, but... i prefer it if he just packed his things and left to Egypt and learnt some manners. (IM SORRY FOR SAYING THAT... but.. he was in fact asked to leave the Church for just that reason. He's too rude.. so they asked him to leave. My wife and I heard ONE of his sermons... it was SOO OFFENSIVE.)
Elsi,
My heart goes out to u.
What's bad is that we were just talking about how to resist satan, and the answer is through God's grace. How do we unite with His Grace? Through the Holy Sacraments, of which priests play an important part. God forgive them. They have no idea how much their egos are destroying our lives.
THe priest in France, since the very beginning has hated to pray with any other priest. Why? Well.. because its "his" church. "His" congregation. "His" Turf. It sounds a bit like gang warfare - doesn't it? Its very silly.
A priest from another church asked me to build a database of names and addresses of all the Coptic Youth in France, so they can be kept in touch about any khelwas etc.. so i called him up and said that I was asked to do that. He said "No!!! You'll take my youth away from me!!!!".
lol - very sad individual.
ANd why Oh WHY does H.H. INSIST on giving us priests that are ignorant in English or French?? Why????
Why does he insist on doing that?? I mean, it gets to the point where it gets embarassing just to listen to them.
There are just 2 priests in France that speak normal french (thank God). They are fluent in 3 languages. The rest... O dear... its an embarassement to hear them speak. Like, u cannot imagine, french is such a delicate language. U have to speak correctly. There's no slang. All slang is vulgar. There's this one priest that REALLY speaks vulgar French. I mean, its offensive. I'm not sure whether he does it to appeal to the youth, but... i prefer it if he just packed his things and left to Egypt and learnt some manners. (IM SORRY FOR SAYING THAT... but.. he was in fact asked to leave the Church for just that reason. He's too rude.. so they asked him to leave. My wife and I heard ONE of his sermons... it was SOO OFFENSIVE.)
the problem is not getting some one who doesn;t know the language, the problem is someone who KNOWS the faith. the best idea, which HH follows most of the time now is that ordain someone from the place of the church itself, if the congregation is big enough. sometimes in far places, you can't find those ppl. so that's when they asign what you can call "a sup" untill the church is strong enough to bring/ordain her own priest from it's fruits. it's a normal thing and that's how the church spread here in the US. almost 60%, maybe more of the priests here are originally from eypt, or served some where else and then came here. then the rest are mostly ordained from here, from of course, language reasons.....but that's is not the before the worthyness of becoming a priest in the coptic orthodox sense.
outside egypt, the idea of localizing churchs starts to break out.
btw, H.H. just arrived here in the Makkar in NJ. i think he should be leaving maybe tomoro or after to egypt for the wednesday meeting.
There's this one priest that REALLY speaks vulgar French. I mean, its offensive. I'm not sure whether he does it to appeal to the youth, but... i prefer it if he just packed his things and left to Egypt and learnt some manners. (IM SORRY FOR SAYING THAT... but.. he was in fact asked to leave the Church for just that reason. He's too rude.. so they asked him to leave. My wife and I heard ONE of his sermons... it was SOO OFFENSIVE.)
is there any website that has that sermon.. i want to listen to... it dosn't have to be vulgar.... i am in french school.. i was since kinder Garden... i want to liosten to a sermon in french.....
Please, those that don't know the language may know the faith, but not really well. I admit, the priests in the UK are great. Perhaps we have our little differences, but they are brilliant in their faith and theology.
In france too.. but unfortunately, only the two priests that speak French seem to have any knowledge of theology. I'm sure the rest of them are nice men etc, but what good to us is "nice"? ?? Even if they had a good understanding of our theology and faith then what good is it Mina if they don't speak French/English to convey that knowledge??? Huh??
Mina,
Please, those that don't know the language may know the faith, but not really well. I admit, the priests in the UK are great. Perhaps we have our little differences, but they are brilliant in their faith and theology.
In france too.. but unfortunately, only the two priests that speak French seem to have any knowledge of theology. I'm sure the rest of them are nice men etc, but what good to us is "nice"? ?? Even if they had a good understanding of our theology and faith then what good is it Mina if they don't speak French/English to convey that knowledge??? Huh??
they convey a little. that is enough rather than nothing.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6633.msg89250#msg89250 date=1212473330]
Mina,
Please, those that don't know the language may know the faith, but not really well. I admit, the priests in the UK are great. Perhaps we have our little differences, but they are brilliant in their faith and theology.
In france too.. but unfortunately, only the two priests that speak French seem to have any knowledge of theology. I'm sure the rest of them are nice men etc, but what good to us is "nice"? ?? Even if they had a good understanding of our theology and faith then what good is it Mina if they don't speak French/English to convey that knowledge??? Huh??
they convey a little. that is enough rather than nothing.
They don't speak French. They do nothing. There's no khedma.. there's no khodam that do stuff for the youth, nor for the graduates, nor for married couples.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=6633.msg89288#msg89288 date=1212503451]
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6633.msg89250#msg89250 date=1212473330]
Mina,
Please, those that don't know the language may know the faith, but not really well. I admit, the priests in the UK are great. Perhaps we have our little differences, but they are brilliant in their faith and theology.
In france too.. but unfortunately, only the two priests that speak French seem to have any knowledge of theology. I'm sure the rest of them are nice men etc, but what good to us is "nice"? ?? Even if they had a good understanding of our theology and faith then what good is it Mina if they don't speak French/English to convey that knowledge??? Huh??
they convey a little. that is enough rather than nothing.
They don't speak French. They do nothing. There's no khedma.. there's no khodam that do stuff for the youth, nor for the graduates, nor for married couples.
wait....those things can be done by servants, not clergymen.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6633.msg89297#msg89297 date=1212508240]
[quote author=minagir link=topic=6633.msg89288#msg89288 date=1212503451]
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6633.msg89250#msg89250 date=1212473330]
Mina,
Please, those that don't know the language may know the faith, but not really well. I admit, the priests in the UK are great. Perhaps we have our little differences, but they are brilliant in their faith and theology.
In france too.. but unfortunately, only the two priests that speak French seem to have any knowledge of theology. I'm sure the rest of them are nice men etc, but what good to us is "nice"? ?? Even if they had a good understanding of our theology and faith then what good is it Mina if they don't speak French/English to convey that knowledge??? Huh??
they convey a little. that is enough rather than nothing.
They don't speak French. They do nothing. There's no khedma.. there's no khodam that do stuff for the youth, nor for the graduates, nor for married couples.
wait....those things can be done by servants, not clergymen.
THe sermon,
the qudass, the confession, the baptisms, the marriage, the homilies, the readings, the alhan in Church (if he doesnt speak the lingo, it makes EVERYONE speak arabic!). We're stuck.
Elsi,
My heart goes out to u.
What's bad is that we were just talking about how to resist satan, and the answer is through God's grace. How do we unite with His Grace? Through the Holy Sacraments, of which priests play an important part. God forgive them. They have no idea how much their egos are destroying our lives.
THe priest in France, since the very beginning has hated to pray with any other priest. Why? Well.. because its "his" church. "His" congregation. "His" Turf. It sounds a bit like gang warfare - doesn't it? Its very silly.
A priest from another church asked me to build a database of names and addresses of all the Coptic Youth in France, so they can be kept in touch about any khelwas etc.. so i called him up and said that I was asked to do that. He said "No!!! You'll take my youth away from me!!!!".
lol - very sad individual.
ANd why Oh WHY does H.H. INSIST on giving us priests that are ignorant in English or French?? Why????
Why does he insist on doing that?? I mean, it gets to the point where it gets embarassing just to listen to them.
There are just 2 priests in France that speak normal french (thank God). They are fluent in 3 languages. The rest... O dear... its an embarassement to hear them speak. Like, u cannot imagine, french is such a delicate language. U have to speak correctly. There's no slang. All slang is vulgar. There's this one priest that REALLY speaks vulgar French. I mean, its offensive. I'm not sure whether he does it to appeal to the youth, but... i prefer it if he just packed his things and left to Egypt and learnt some manners. (IM SORRY FOR SAYING THAT... but.. he was in fact asked to leave the Church for just that reason. He's too rude.. so they asked him to leave. My wife and I heard ONE of his sermons... it was SOO OFFENSIVE.)
QT_PA_2T,
Dearly beloved!
Gosh, the contentions are just the same??!! The Devil has really taken a hold of these men!!? They are supposed to be leading people to Christ, yet they are leading them from Him??! Don't they realize what a mortal sin it is??? It is unforgiveable what they are doing!
You know sin begins at the top and rolls its way down. These 'heads' of the church are setting a very bad example; their 'clicks' and 'gangs' are causing the youth to become the same way and the youth are being slaughtered; while they argue fuss and fight over trivia!!! Such a blasphemy: talk about sins that lead straight to hell, I'm sure that hell will be their reward and they will have to answer for all those they have lead astray as well!!!
We know quarrels amongst Christ's ordained have been going on ever since their beginnings. Even though Christ knew Judas would betray Him, He still made Judas a Disciple. For some reason these 'Judas Priests' are among us?! Maybe it is to separate the sheep from the wolves.
Oh tell me about the french lessons...lol..I have been studying french since high-school and still have mastered very little. I had started lessons again a few years back with a book that has a dog on it. Are you familiar with it? I have just backed it away, so i don't have the title on hand, but i would like to know if it is the right book to learn from. When i hear people speaking French it sounds totally different than what we are taught!
Goodness....lol....I thought in an earlier post you had said you were a female!! Good thing I didn't write "Hey, girlfriend"...lol.
You should become a Priest! I'm sure you would do a better job than the present clergy!
You should become a Priest! I'm sure you would do a better job than the present clergy!
HAHAHAHAHAHAH Vas as a priest :P lol that will be the day ::) (lol Vas you know what I mean)
[quote author=elsi70x7 link=topic=6633.msg89399#msg89399 date=1212585337]
You should become a Priest! I'm sure you would do a better job than the present clergy!
HAHAHAHAHAHAH Vas as a priest :P lol that will be the day ::) (lol Vas you know what I mean)
Hi Elsi,
I totally agree with Joegabriel here. I mean, if I were a priest, I don't know what I'd do, but there's definately better than me. I mean, Hezekiel is pretty good. Hizz-Child would NEVER confess to me by the way (which would break my heart), Orthodox11 is a saint (REALLY A SAINT!), there's Matt (from Holand) he's a saint, Minagir is now from SHobra so he's got that spiritual touch now, so he'd be a good priest.
If I were a priest, I'd stop joking around. Really guys. I know I can be sarcastic, and I doubt that I'd change, but I'd definately stop saying jokes. I'd GO CRAZY if anyone was making noise duing mass. I would be involved with the youth. I'd go and visit those that don't come. (Seriously Joe, I would do that). I'd go and visit the girl that loves to eat a lot. I'd really pay visits to her. In fact, I'd have her number on speed dial. Whenever I'm hungry, i'd just call her up to see if she was OK, and tell her that I'm coming to pass by to see her anyway. (No.. seriously, I WOULD DO THAT... and what's the shame in that??? Am i NOT assisting her in her affliction?? She has a problem.. perhaps if I ate with her, and I consumed the food for her, it would help her?? - Kill two birds with ONE stone!!).
I probably wouldn't talk much though if I was a priest.. i mean... the more I write on these forums, the more I realise how ignorant I am.. and how much others know more than me.. so I'd read a lot about something before talking.. (i would NEVER SAY my opinion - ever).
Having said that, I think I would be capable of seeing what is holy and what is NOT holy. I mean.. the topic of "laugh uncontrollably, and do not regret your past" - if I heard anyone say this in my church, i'd be quick to correct it. I WOULD HAVE NO PROTESTANT IDEOLOGY IN MY CHURCH. EVER.
I'd explain the importance of the Agpeya. I'd make the little children pray from all the agpeya for matins... I would!! I'd make a competition for the under 10's to see which one could learn the Psalms off by heart. Really - I would!!!
I wouldn't let ANYONE kiss my hand unless they are from Shoubra. Because, look:
Egyptians DEIFY priests. When an Egyptian kisses the hand of the priest, its really a gesture of sucking up.. but when someone from shoubra kisses a priest's hand, i feel the priest had the blessing. (sorry, but these people are all saints. Its a fact.) Ya3ni, they kiss the priest's hand really to get a blessing... they are the most Orthodox people I know.
But Elsi, thanks!! Thanks a million for this wonderful complement, but Joe's right... i'm soooooo unqualified and ungifted and unworthy of this... I'm still growing.. there are so much good people i've met on this site that would be great as priests.
Finally, I would prohibit any emotional songs... "I wanna touch u, I wanna see your face" stuff from being sung in my Church. THe Hymn :"Jumping over the mountains of the Golgotha" is OUT of my CHurch. The people who sing it will be warned and perhaps even excommunicated depending on if they INSIST on singing that song.
Atai Parthenos will be sung in ALL TAMGEEDS.. whether for Saint Mary, or for someone else.
Zefte Pantes IS the official tamgeed for Saint Mary.
Agios Athanatos Nai-Nan-Funky Stylie will be sung in ALL occassions.
The tasbeha will be respected in my Church. It won't be rushed as most priests do just to move on.. but it will be ESSENTIAL to sing the tasbeha before ANY mass...
Elect me as your spiritual leader, and perhaps lent will be 20 days!! U never know!!!! I'll get u a discount. (ok.. only kidding... but i'm open for offers).
I will elect Joe as Head of Sunday School!! He's EXTREMELY Orthodox. He's brilliant. I'd ask him to give the SUnday sermon, I'd sit back and listen to what he's saying... just chill out..
If I say any sermon, I'd talk about repentance. Always. I'd talk about how Big God's Love is. I'd talk about Theosis and try and sound really intelligent.. just to let people around me know that I'm not as stupid as I look. lol...
God bless
and don't ever insult or think lowly of any priest.... from what i have seen by you guys, it isn't too great what you are saying..... they weren't selected randomly to be preists... they have their reasons, and not everything has to make sence for us.... it is all God 's will and HE knows what is best for us..............
If truly the priest at Vas' church is as he describes him, then something is seriously wrong there and it should be adressed one way or another (with respect and humility of course).
If the priest becomes so arrogant that he considers the congregation HIS instead of seeing himself as just a mere servant of the Lord, then he's definitly sinning gravely and also lacking in his service toward the congregation.
God bless all our wonderful abouna's who dedicate their lives to serving God in serving His children. The listen to our problems and pray for us and provide us with spiritual advise.
Please pray for me, a sinner
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6633.msg89420#msg89420 date=1212608567]
[quote author=elsi70x7 link=topic=6633.msg89399#msg89399 date=1212585337]
You should become a Priest! I'm sure you would do a better job than the present clergy!
HAHAHAHAHAHAH Vas as a priest :P lol that will be the day ::) (lol Vas you know what I mean)
Hi Elsi,
I totally agree with Joegabriel here. I mean, if I were a priest, I don't know what I'd do, but there's definately better than me. I mean, Hezekiel is pretty good. Hizz-Child would NEVER confess to me by the way (which would break my heart), Orthodox11 is a saint (REALLY A SAINT!), there's Matt (from Holand) he's a saint, Minagir is now from SHobra so he's got that spiritual touch now, so he'd be a good priest.
If I were a priest, I'd stop joking around. Really guys. I know I can be sarcastic, and I doubt that I'd change, but I'd definately stop saying jokes. I'd GO CRAZY if anyone was making noise duing mass. I would be involved with the youth. I'd go and visit those that don't come. (Seriously Joe, I would do that). I'd go and visit the girl that loves to eat a lot. I'd really pay visits to her. In fact, I'd have her number on speed dial. Whenever I'm hungry, i'd just call her up to see if she was OK, and tell her that I'm coming to pass by to see her anyway. (No.. seriously, I WOULD DO THAT... and what's the shame in that??? Am i NOT assisting her in her affliction?? She has a problem.. perhaps if I ate with her, and I consumed the food for her, it would help her?? - Kill two birds with ONE stone!!).
I probably wouldn't talk much though if I was a priest.. i mean... the more I write on these forums, the more I realise how ignorant I am.. and how much others know more than me.. so I'd read a lot about something before talking.. (i would NEVER SAY my opinion - ever).
Having said that, I think I would be capable of seeing what is holy and what is NOT holy. I mean.. the topic of "laugh uncontrollably, and do not regret your past" - if I heard anyone say this in my church, i'd be quick to correct it. I WOULD HAVE NO PROTESTANT IDEOLOGY IN MY CHURCH. EVER.
I'd explain the importance of the Agpeya. I'd make the little children pray from all the agpeya for matins... I would!! I'd make a competition for the under 10's to see which one could learn the Psalms off by heart. Really - I would!!!
I wouldn't let ANYONE kiss my hand unless they are from Shoubra. Because, look:
Egyptians DEIFY priests. When an Egyptian kisses the hand of the priest, its really a gesture of sucking up.. but when someone from shoubra kisses a priest's hand, i feel the priest had the blessing. (sorry, but these people are all saints. Its a fact.) Ya3ni, they kiss the priest's hand really to get a blessing... they are the most Orthodox people I know.
But Elsi, thanks!! Thanks a million for this wonderful complement, but Joe's right... i'm soooooo unqualified and ungifted and unworthy of this... I'm still growing.. there are so much good people i've met on this site that would be great as priests.
Finally, I would prohibit any emotional songs... "I wanna touch u, I wanna see your face" stuff from being sung in my Church. THe Hymn :"Jumping over the mountains of the Golgotha" is OUT of my CHurch. The people who sing it will be warned and perhaps even excommunicated depending on if they INSIST on singing that song.
Atai Parthenos will be sung in ALL TAMGEEDS.. whether for Saint Mary, or for someone else.
Zefte Pantes IS the official tamgeed for Saint Mary.
Agios Athanatos Nai-Nan-Funky Stylie will be sung in ALL occassions.
The tasbeha will be respected in my Church. It won't be rushed as most priests do just to move on.. but it will be ESSENTIAL to sing the tasbeha before ANY mass...
Elect me as your spiritual leader, and perhaps lent will be 20 days!! U never know!!!! I'll get u a discount. (ok.. only kidding... but i'm open for offers).
I will elect Joe as Head of Sunday School!! He's EXTREMELY Orthodox. He's brilliant. I'd ask him to give the SUnday sermon, I'd sit back and listen to what he's saying... just chill out..
If I say any sermon, I'd talk about repentance. Always. I'd talk about how Big God's Love is. I'd talk about Theosis and try and sound really intelligent.. just to let people around me know that I'm not as stupid as I look. lol...
God bless
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaahaaha! QT_, you would definately have them rolling in the aisles! LOL; seems like you have given it a lot of thought, hahaha!
Please do not shorten Holy Lent!! It is one of the best spiritual gifts ever! Don't stop saying jokes and else for sarcasim, have you heard Abouna Anthony's sermons? He tells it like it is! I think the youth need reality: the good, the bad and even the ugly! I'm voting for you! Hahaha....it seems the most worthy candidates always claim to be unworthy, so you just keep up the good work...hahaha. Don't go running to hide in some patisserie shop or something! Hahaaaha! Look, you and Abouna Anthony have given me the best laugh today!
God bless you
He's just so funny, and he is the most sincere servant EVER!!
I just want to say that I did complain to a senior bishop about several priests and the squabbling that is going on between them. Not only did the Bishop know about the problems, but he even made a sarcastic remark - worse than me. Apparently, Elsi's bishop told her to stay away from them. It does not mean we do not respect priesthood - on the contrary, it means we respect priesthood TOO much and we are surprised at such behaviour. Their mission is to lead people to Christ, not to their own personalities. WHich is the MOST dishonest thing ever.
Did we not read in St John about warning your brother's if they are doing a sin leading to death... is not going to a Bishop and telling him to "sort this out" just doing that??? It becomes really surreal when the priest is the one causing the problems for us to grow spiritually. When he himself becomes the obstacle of hindrance between us and God, if we complain about that does it mean that we don't respect his priesthood?? Not at all!! it means HE DOESNT respect his own priesthood!!
What can I say?? Its a shame... a big shame. No one is perfect, even priests, we know.. but i'm sorry, when it comes to HINDERING people from going to Church, this is where I draw the line. I mean.. we all have faults.. but our faults should not hinder others to go to Church. Should it???
I knew this priest once that did something sooooo bad... really bad, and when we drew his attention to it, he said :"Did i ever say I was perfect?" - lol - but the thing is, he said it as an excuse that he wanted to do something bad. When they want to be respected, they play the "I am a man of God card", when they want to be not judged for their shortcomings, they tell you: "I'm just a human being like you".
Ya rubeeeeeeeeeeee....ehhh da..
I couldnt care less about the sins of priests.. NOT ONE bit.. i don't care if they turn water to gold, if they go around in gangs and steal money, or even if they fart incense from being so holy - but what I do care about is that they do not hinder me nor my family, nor my friends from going to Church. Is that tooooo much to ask???
I just wish to add one small notice:
There are 3 types of clergy:
a) THe saint (someone who gives himself to serving the Lord). Period. Yes, he has mistakes, but his faults, they are not infecting or affecting others.
b) The normal. Someone decides to be a priest. He loves the CHurch, He tries his best. He's growing. He has his fair share of problems, but he's struggling like everyone else
c) The evil. Someone who uses priesthood to advance himself or his ego. The biggest problem with this is that many times this causes division in the Church. Either you are "IN" his gang, or not "IN" his gang. If you are "not in his gang" , you could be treated really badly. I mean... REALLY badly. The competition between priests to get people just to go to them as their FoC was ruining our Church. His faults HINDER others from going to Church. Literally.. if u are not in his gang, u might as well not come to Church. (REALLY!!). Would such a spirit or mentality lead to other sins!? Yes, if they are so open about leading others to their personalities, what would they do in the closed??? What level of dishonesty would they go to then??? Lying? Yes! (i've seen it!). Bearing false witness??? Yes!! I've seen it!!
You ask me to respect priesthood, but with all due respect, it is not I that has shown disrespect to priests. Its them themselves. I'm sorry.
Its wrong to paint a picture that all priests are alike, but no.. thank God.. we are blessed with priests that are really saints. They are not perfect. The ones I call saints, we argue.. they can be hurtful too towards me sometimes, but they serve the Lord. Not their personalities, not their egos, and not the desires of their heart.
What what does the Lord have to say about any of this?? I could go on, but believe me, from what i've been reading.. this attitude that St Paul is describing is one from satan. Its not from God. They are not zealous about saving or loving their flock, they are zealous in satisfying their egos.