You have a point clay. We give the sacrament to babies, by decision of their parents... so are you saying that if a mentally ill adult could not consciously make the decision of having Communion, their family should make that decision for them?
[quote author=clay link=topic=6514.msg91090#msg91090 date=1213876010] I disagree. We give the sacrament to babes.
No.. i agree with Joe here Clay. Its OK for a mentally ill person to take the communion SO LONG as he/she realises that is the Holy Body of Christ. That's all. Babies are different. They are not mentally ill. If we take communion when we are not worthy, nor when we trust that this is the true body and blood of Our Lord, then rather it cleanse us, we condemn ourselves (please see the Homilies of J.CHYRSOSTOM who says this very clearly!).
[quote author=SuperMAN(BAM) link=topic=6514.msg90708#msg90708 date=1213344730] now there are extreme characteristics to both, all depending on what level one is... for the satanic possessions there are levels, and for mental illnesses there are levels also! and when the levels are extreme or high of both... thats when you notice there is a problem... but there is the lower levels... in which you will not know if they have anything at all... they can be chillin with you at church... for there are people who are demon possessed in churches... but when God wills to be Glorified in which ever time he choses, he sends that person to... or is met by... the person or whatever through whom or through which God will allow the exorcism to be exercised...
now this topic is pretty cool... because I study psychology... and i have personal interest in exorcism, and satanic possessions and such! so this question for a long time has boggled me... but I saw people getting better by medications from clinical psychological illnesses... and i saw people being relieved from their possession through the church! but God will allow somebody to be captive... and will free them in his due time! there is nothing wrong with their brains... or anything of such... and God also allows people to be held captive by illnesses psychological or other... in such there are chemical imbalances... missing nerves... or etc...
firstly what do u mean by levels for a demon possessed person? in this regard id think u either are or arent mental health is different as u do have levels ie. chronic,episodic or wateva....... i believe most medications can helps balance the chemical imbalance n support people lead a normal life except for depression..i do not think that depression tablets help at all...this is where the role religion comes in.....
I mean deamon possession can't be that common right? + who is most vulnerable to being possessed by a deamon?
God bless
this would depend on your level of spirituality and ur faith.....realistically we are all vulnerable in the eyes of the devil as temptation is always there but it is christ who strengthens us and guides our way
Both had one thing in common: They needed the Holy Communion. I mean, i remember once someone was really upset with the brother that was schizophrenic in CHurch, and abouna was not happy about giving him the Holy COmmunion. The man was begging abouna for the communion. He needed it. Both did. Whenever they were far from the CHurch, or stopped taking communion, they did the saddest things to themselves. Really!! It was heartbreaking. I knew them both quite well (the latter was actually a really good friend), so I can say these comments. Now, it would be so interesting to see the effect of Holy Communion on mental disorders.
Were they "demon possessed" ??? Well.. if they didn't have Holy Communion, they would do very odd things to themselves.
I know for me, that if I do not take the Eucharist, this is not good. Not that I want to go and kill people, but i'm exposing myself to diabolical attacks without any protection or armour.
firstly wat does coucou mean? secondly a demon possessed person having communion? that doesnt make sense...if we are saying that to deliberate whether one is demon possessed or not is by the sign of the cross then how can they want the body of christ?
[quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6514.msg91083#msg91083 date=1213873512] Of course, I don't think there should be anything to hinder a person who is mentally ill from partaking in the Holy Communion (providing he is baptised, believes, fasts etc.), but I think that person must be consciously aware that they are partaking of Christ's Body and Blood, i.e. as long as their illness does not prevent their understanding of the significance and Holiness of the Sacrament.
pray for me
joe
depending on the level of the illness and if it is managed by medication........sum 1 diagnosed with a mental illness can function normallii as ne other person so perhaps this is the difference b/ween sum1 who is mentally ill or demon.....ive known many people who were diagnosed with a mental health condition and they lead perfectly normal livess they study and work n to me that says theyve overcome the hardest part and are now moving on......sum1s mental illness will neva go away....u live with it for the rest of ur life
ps. sorri bout all the posts i shudve posted it all as one ahahahaaha
The phenomena of mental health disease is obviously a legacy of the Fall of Mankind. It is therefore irrevocably related to Demon influence on Human nature. It is not what God intended, but of course, we all have characteristics that can be easily traced to our murky inherited image of the Logos. It is unclear whether all Mental Health disease is a result of pathological processes in the Brain, or whether these pathological processes occur in the brain subsequent to unfortunate choices by the person involved (and hence, "demon possession"). If sin, separate from its conatations is to be defined as "fallen short of the glory of God", like us, their disease manifestation is an unfortunate perpetual sin.
We are all hosts. We are not unique. We either conform to the image of this world, and become possessed by the prince of the air, or we comform to the Image of god. That is why I believe religion is important- because worship is just part of nature. Kids who have rejected God, easily praise and worship the glorified celebrities, and "role models" of the world. Of course, these people are not to be judged, as it would be hypocritical, but they are still deficient from the Image of God. We are, thus, also demon possessed.
We are slaves to Satan when we sin. Unlike Satan, we are tempted first exteriorly to sin. We allow entry to deviant thoughts and behaviours, usually.
Howeer, as a Medical Student, clearly drugs (including Medicines) and some food preparations, and other societal influences impact a child, or young person so negatively, that the entry of "sin" (by my previous definition) has been so passively taken in, that the person becomes decapitated. Others have even inherited some mental disorders. So, clearly, mental disability is a result of sin of our fathers, and our selves- and we do well to sympathesise with them.
Thank God our salvation comes from the inward work of God in our hearts, and participation in it by striving outwardly by learning from Him. The mentally inept patient, I believe, if he is with his faculties trying with his strength towards attaining something resembling to the Image of Christ, his sinful behaviour should be considered like our sin, a humbling characteristic to remind us that our righteousness is from God, and a comparable saint. Even if it can be argued that mental disability resembles demon possession.
Both had one thing in common: They needed the Holy Communion. I mean, i remember once someone was really upset with the brother that was schizophrenic in CHurch, and abouna was not happy about giving him the Holy COmmunion. The man was begging abouna for the communion. He needed it. Both did. Whenever they were far from the CHurch, or stopped taking communion, they did the saddest things to themselves. Really!! It was heartbreaking. I knew them both quite well (the latter was actually a really good friend), so I can say these comments. Now, it would be so interesting to see the effect of Holy Communion on mental disorders.
Were they "demon possessed" ??? Well.. if they didn't have Holy Communion, they would do very odd things to themselves.
I know for me, that if I do not take the Eucharist, this is not good. Not that I want to go and kill people, but i'm exposing myself to diabolical attacks without any protection or armour.
firstly wat does coucou mean? secondly a demon possessed person having communion? that doesnt make sense...if we are saying that to deliberate whether one is demon possessed or not is by the sign of the cross then how can they want the body of christ?
Hi Kerestina, "Coucou" is what everyone uses in France to say "hello". lol Its like "hi" in English. Rather than saying "hello". U don't have that in Australia? I guess it would be equivalent then to "G'day"
[quote author=clay link=topic=6514.msg91168#msg91168 date=1213933988] Howeer, as a Medical Student, clearly drugs (including Medicines) and some food preparations, and other societal influences impact a child, or young person so negatively, that the entry of "sin" (by my previous definition) has been so passively taken in, that the person becomes decapitated. Others have even inherited some mental disorders. So, clearly, mental disability is a result of sin of our fathers, and our selves- and we do well to sympathesise with them.
Thank God our salvation comes from the inward work of God in our hearts, and participation in it by striving outwardly by learning from Him. The mentally inept patient, I believe, if he is with his faculties trying with his strength towards attaining something resembling to the Image of Christ, his sinful behaviour should be considered like our sin, a humbling characteristic to remind us that our righteousness is from God, and a comparable saint. Even if it can be argued that mental disability resembles demon possession.
this is quite interesting..........althoughh cud u elaborate more in regards to "So, clearly, mental disability is a result of sin of our fathers, and our selves- and we do well to sympathesise with them." [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6514.msg91179#msg91179 date=1213942478] Hi Kerestina, "Coucou" is what everyone uses in France to say "hello". lol Its like "hi" in English. Rather than saying "hello". U don't have that in Australia? I guess it would be equivalent then to "G'day"
ahhahah i learnt french in school years ago and wen i seen coucou i automatically thort pig which i think is couchon but ive heard of coucou in a arabic song actuallii ahhaha so yeh hey vassilios :)
For me, I think all evil and bad things come from the Devil. I think he and his minions come in all shapes and sizes, forms and formats.
Jesus did much healing of people who were possessed with demons. In Matthew 17:14-18, He rebukes a demon in a young boy which was giving the boy seizures. I think seizures are the same today as they were then; and demon possession is the same today as then.
Also, when it comes to the Eucharist, while the best thing is for it to be taken regularly. It is very important to not take it unworthily as well. The Commemorations tell the story of a female Saint who was a woman of ill-repute, who on a whim followed some pilgrims on a journey to a Church of the Virgin St. Mary and she was moved to being saved, on this pilgrimage. Just like that, she prayed to St. Mary's Icon and heard an answer and went to live in the desert leaving her bad life behind......without Baptisim or Eucharist. Then in Holy Lent a Monk who had gone out in the desert to pray saw her and thought her an apparition. She told him her story and asked for the Eucharist the next time he came that way. He returned, probably Baptized her gave her the Eucharist for the first time in her life. The next time he went to give her the Eucharist, she had gone on to Heaven and a lion was guarding her body and dug the hole for her to be buried in. This Saint fought a battle with Satan for years in the desert alone until she was worthy of the Eucharist....received it once and passed on. Of course having the Eucharist is important, still having a good relationship with God as an individual is also important. It is a personal thing and God knows the needs of His children and He provides for our needs. When we face God at judgement day we face Him alone.
Comments
pray for me
joe
I disagree. We give the sacrament to babes.
No.. i agree with Joe here Clay. Its OK for a mentally ill person to take the communion SO LONG as he/she realises that is the Holy Body of Christ. That's all. Babies are different. They are not mentally ill.
If we take communion when we are not worthy, nor when we trust that this is the true body and blood of Our Lord, then rather it cleanse us, we condemn ourselves (please see the Homilies of J.CHYRSOSTOM who says this very clearly!).
now there are extreme characteristics to both, all depending on what level one is... for the satanic possessions there are levels, and for mental illnesses there are levels also! and when the levels are extreme or high of both... thats when you notice there is a problem... but there is the lower levels... in which you will not know if they have anything at all... they can be chillin with you at church... for there are people who are demon possessed in churches... but when God wills to be Glorified in which ever time he choses, he sends that person to... or is met by... the person or whatever through whom or through which God will allow the exorcism to be exercised...
now this topic is pretty cool... because I study psychology... and i have personal interest in exorcism, and satanic possessions and such! so this question for a long time has boggled me... but I saw people getting better by medications from clinical psychological illnesses... and i saw people being relieved from their possession through the church! but God will allow somebody to be captive... and will free them in his due time! there is nothing wrong with their brains... or anything of such... and God also allows people to be held captive by illnesses psychological or other... in such there are chemical imbalances... missing nerves... or etc...
firstly what do u mean by levels for a demon possessed person? in this regard id think u either are or arent
mental health is different as u do have levels ie. chronic,episodic or wateva.......
i believe most medications can helps balance the chemical imbalance n support people lead a normal life except for depression..i do not think that depression tablets help at all...this is where the role religion comes in.....
I mean deamon possession can't be that common right? + who is most vulnerable to being possessed by a deamon?
God bless
this would depend on your level of spirituality and ur faith.....realistically we are all vulnerable in the eyes of the devil as temptation is always there but it is christ who strengthens us and guides our way
Both had one thing in common: They needed the Holy Communion. I mean, i remember once someone was really upset with the brother that was schizophrenic in CHurch, and abouna was not happy about giving him the Holy COmmunion. The man was begging abouna for the communion. He needed it. Both did. Whenever they were far from the CHurch, or stopped taking communion, they did the saddest things to themselves. Really!! It was heartbreaking. I knew them both quite well (the latter was actually a really good friend), so I can say these comments. Now, it would be so interesting to see the effect of Holy Communion on mental disorders.
Were they "demon possessed" ??? Well.. if they didn't have Holy Communion, they would do very odd things to themselves.
I know for me, that if I do not take the Eucharist, this is not good. Not that I want to go and kill people, but i'm exposing myself to diabolical attacks without any protection or armour.
firstly wat does coucou mean?
secondly a demon possessed person having communion? that doesnt make sense...if we are saying that to deliberate whether one is demon possessed or not is by the sign of the cross then how can they want the body of christ?
Of course, I don't think there should be anything to hinder a person who is mentally ill from partaking in the Holy Communion (providing he is baptised, believes, fasts etc.), but I think that person must be consciously aware that they are partaking of Christ's Body and Blood, i.e. as long as their illness does not prevent their understanding of the significance and Holiness of the Sacrament.
pray for me
joe
depending on the level of the illness and if it is managed by medication........sum 1 diagnosed with a mental illness can function normallii as ne other person so perhaps this is the difference b/ween sum1 who is mentally ill or demon.....ive known many people who were diagnosed with a mental health condition and they lead perfectly normal livess they study and work n to me that says theyve overcome the hardest part and are now moving on......sum1s mental illness will neva go away....u live with it for the rest of ur life
ps. sorri bout all the posts i shudve posted it all as one ahahahaaha
We are all hosts. We are not unique. We either conform to the image of this world, and become possessed by the prince of the air, or we comform to the Image of god. That is why I believe religion is important- because worship is just part of nature. Kids who have rejected God, easily praise and worship the glorified celebrities, and "role models" of the world. Of course, these people are not to be judged, as it would be hypocritical, but they are still deficient from the Image of God. We are, thus, also demon possessed.
We are slaves to Satan when we sin. Unlike Satan, we are tempted first exteriorly to sin. We allow entry to deviant thoughts and behaviours, usually.
Howeer, as a Medical Student, clearly drugs (including Medicines) and some food preparations, and other societal influences impact a child, or young person so negatively, that the entry of "sin" (by my previous definition) has been so passively taken in, that the person becomes decapitated. Others have even inherited some mental disorders. So, clearly, mental disability is a result of sin of our fathers, and our selves- and we do well to sympathesise with them.
Thank God our salvation comes from the inward work of God in our hearts, and participation in it by striving outwardly by learning from Him. The mentally inept patient, I believe, if he is with his faculties trying with his strength towards attaining something resembling to the Image of Christ, his sinful behaviour should be considered like our sin, a humbling characteristic to remind us that our righteousness is from God, and a comparable saint. Even if it can be argued that mental disability resembles demon possession.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6514.msg91057#msg91057 date=1213856987]
Both had one thing in common: They needed the Holy Communion. I mean, i remember once someone was really upset with the brother that was schizophrenic in CHurch, and abouna was not happy about giving him the Holy COmmunion. The man was begging abouna for the communion. He needed it. Both did. Whenever they were far from the CHurch, or stopped taking communion, they did the saddest things to themselves. Really!! It was heartbreaking. I knew them both quite well (the latter was actually a really good friend), so I can say these comments. Now, it would be so interesting to see the effect of Holy Communion on mental disorders.
Were they "demon possessed" ??? Well.. if they didn't have Holy Communion, they would do very odd things to themselves.
I know for me, that if I do not take the Eucharist, this is not good. Not that I want to go and kill people, but i'm exposing myself to diabolical attacks without any protection or armour.
firstly wat does coucou mean?
secondly a demon possessed person having communion? that doesnt make sense...if we are saying that to deliberate whether one is demon possessed or not is by the sign of the cross then how can they want the body of christ?
Hi Kerestina,
"Coucou" is what everyone uses in France to say "hello". lol
Its like "hi" in English. Rather than saying "hello". U don't have that in Australia? I guess it would be equivalent then to "G'day"
Howeer, as a Medical Student, clearly drugs (including Medicines) and some food preparations, and other societal influences impact a child, or young person so negatively, that the entry of "sin" (by my previous definition) has been so passively taken in, that the person becomes decapitated. Others have even inherited some mental disorders. So, clearly, mental disability is a result of sin of our fathers, and our selves- and we do well to sympathesise with them.
Thank God our salvation comes from the inward work of God in our hearts, and participation in it by striving outwardly by learning from Him. The mentally inept patient, I believe, if he is with his faculties trying with his strength towards attaining something resembling to the Image of Christ, his sinful behaviour should be considered like our sin, a humbling characteristic to remind us that our righteousness is from God, and a comparable saint. Even if it can be argued that mental disability resembles demon possession.
this is quite interesting..........althoughh cud u elaborate more in regards to "So, clearly, mental disability is a result of sin of our fathers, and our selves- and we do well to sympathesise with them."
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6514.msg91179#msg91179 date=1213942478]
Hi Kerestina,
"Coucou" is what everyone uses in France to say "hello". lol
Its like "hi" in English. Rather than saying "hello". U don't have that in Australia? I guess it would be equivalent then to "G'day"
ahhahah i learnt french in school years ago and wen i seen coucou i automatically thort pig which i think is couchon but ive heard of coucou in a arabic song actuallii ahhaha
so yeh hey vassilios :)
Jesus did much healing of people who were possessed with demons. In Matthew 17:14-18, He rebukes a demon in a young boy which was giving the boy seizures. I think seizures are the same today as they were then; and demon possession is the same today as then.
Also, when it comes to the Eucharist, while the best thing is for it to be taken regularly. It is very important to not take it unworthily as well.
The Commemorations tell the story of a female Saint who was a woman of ill-repute, who on a whim followed some pilgrims on a journey to a Church of the Virgin St. Mary and she was moved to being saved, on this pilgrimage. Just like that, she prayed to St. Mary's Icon and heard an answer and went to live in the desert leaving her bad life behind......without Baptisim or Eucharist. Then in Holy Lent a Monk who had gone out in the desert to pray saw her and thought her an apparition. She told him her story and asked for the Eucharist the next time he came that way. He returned, probably Baptized her gave her the Eucharist for the first time in her life. The next time he went to give her the Eucharist, she had gone on to Heaven and a lion was guarding her body and dug the hole for her to be buried in.
This Saint fought a battle with Satan for years in the desert alone until she was worthy of the Eucharist....received it once and passed on.
Of course having the Eucharist is important, still having a good relationship with God as an individual is also important. It is a personal thing and God knows the needs of His children and He provides for our needs.
When we face God at judgement day we face Him alone.