Freestyling during Lent

edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Hi,

I attended mass last sunday and the deacons, during the liturgy, sang something that blew me away...

I've never heard it before. It was just for lent.

Basically, it was at the following part:

Priest: "The 6 winged ... and the full of eyes... etc"
Deacon: "Eproskhomen".

(and then you'd expect :"Ayhol Rab" or "Epchoise Evnoti" (O Lord of Hosts).

Instead, they sang something really touching. It was brilliant. It was something in Arabic. I don't know where they pick these things up from, but I honestly didnt want the mass to finish..

It was in the same tune as Epchoise Evnoti. The ending obviously was "Alleluia, Isos Pi-Ekhrestos Arenestaveen, e-ehri egon, e-nehmeh en-eh-he-oo.... "

I'd love to download it. If you know the hymn this could be, could u point it out to me?

I honestly thought the deacon was freestyling, and just made it up, but it was so beautiful that I honestly recommend those who are following this period to listen to this.

Comments

  • That was probably the Aspasmos Watos for Lent in arabic, it starts with "Ana a3refo ennaka sale7on, ra'ouf wa ra7im..." (in coptic Ti soo-oun je enthok ou aghathos), and the text is actually taken from two verses from the Doxology "Nek nai o Pachois" for Lent.

    I think u can find a recording in the Cyrillian Liturgy prayed by Anba Yoannis with Ibrahim Ayad. U'll find it on this site:

    http://www.saintmina-holmdel.org/Multimedia/index.php

    Search for Liturgy and then Anba Yoannis. I'm almost 100% certain this is the one.
  • Hi mate!

    Yes! That's the hymn. The words really touched me.

    Man, the deacons in our Church are soooooooooooooo young, and they know so much. I've never heard this before.

    I suppose then that most Churches sing this in Arabic??

    Perhaps Minatasgeel can translate it for us in English, and the UK/Holland/Aussie/US guys can have a bash at doing this hymn in English? I think the words are so magnificent.

    Has this EVER been done in English??

    Just a few months ago, we were all complaining that songs needed to be written in English, with English melodies, but i think stuff like this will make sure the Coptic tunes are here to stay for a very very long time.
  • This can be done in any language, whether its english, arabic, coptic, or even french. As long as you have the tune you just rekeb on the words and there ya go! I love the tune for the Aspasmos Watos, and its great how the words change with the season
  • [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6493.msg85851#msg85851 date=1208265970]
    This can be done in any language, whether its english, arabic, coptic, or even french. As long as you have the tune you just rekeb on the words and there ya go! I love the tune for the Aspasmos Watos, and its great how the words change with the season


    No, I think its important to get some talented deacons to actually put the words and sing them in English. I think the melody may change JUST a little, but, otherwise, it will come across as scrambled up.

    The Aussies are pretty good at that. I remember listening to their Saint Basil's liturgy in English once. Those of us that heard it in the Aussie Way just kept on doing it the same way afterwards.

    For example: Agios Otheos is NOT easy to do in English; however, they managed to do it. Its a not exactly markooba over the Greek, but, its so similar, and it works.

    There's a saying in Egypt that my plumber used to tell me:

    "Eddy il khobz lee khobazoo, 7ata lawe akkal noss-sue" (Give the bread to the breadmaker, even if he eats half of it".

    He used to tell me that whenever I told him i was thinking of doing the DIY myself.
  • For the full txt in coptic/arabic/english:

    http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/150
  • [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6493.msg85855#msg85855 date=1208269393]
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6493.msg85851#msg85851 date=1208265970]
    This can be done in any language, whether its english, arabic, coptic, or even french. As long as you have the tune you just rekeb on the words and there ya go! I love the tune for the Aspasmos Watos, and its great how the words change with the season


    No, I think its important to get some talented deacons to actually put the words and sing them in English. I think the melody may change JUST a little, but, otherwise, it will come across as scrambled up.

    The Aussies are pretty good at that. I remember listening to their Saint Basil's liturgy in English once. Those of us that heard it in the Aussie Way just kept on doing it the same way afterwards.

    For example: Agios Otheos is NOT easy to do in English; however, they managed to do it. Its a not exactly markooba over the Greek, but, its so similar, and it works.

    There's a saying in Egypt that my plumber used to tell me:

    "Eddy il khobz lee khobazoo, 7ata lawe akkal noss-sue" (Give the bread to the breadmaker, even if he eats half of it".

    He used to tell me that whenever I told him i was thinking of doing the DIY myself.


    lol, i love that saying. i just wish ppl to understand it and fellow it.

    for the text, it is in fact beautiful. deacons here in my church say it all the time, especialy on weekdays liturgies where it's quiet and better to pray on.

    actualy also when said in arabic, both paragraphs are said, when in coptic, which we never say even thoo it's recorded, we would only say the 1st paragraph.

    the text link is above as Hos Erof provided. the arabic-enlgish there is in fact according to Ibrahim Ayad's recording, which is done really nice when you hear it.

    the thing about this is that Aspasmos Watos tune is kind of very confusing. so instead of dealing with that and the fact that it's coptic, most of them are constructed on the arabic, not matching the coptic but in fact sounding good. it would be a good thing to try to put unto english, but it wouldn't be as nice. also the text is not hard to understand at all. also the translation is straight out of the 1st doxology, which am sure people sing in english and understand.
  • [quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=6493.msg85856#msg85856 date=1208270395]
    For the full txt in coptic/arabic/english:

    http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/150


    awesome. Absolutely awesome.

    Its great words. I've never heard anything as brilliant as this in the catholic church by the way. I'm not comparing, I'm just pointing that out. Lol.
  • [quote author=minagir link=topic=6493.msg85859#msg85859 date=1208273338]
    i didn't hear this yet, but it might be it:
    http://coptichymnsinenglish.net/aspasmos watos great lent.MP3

    Yup thats it, but QT if one knows this tune well enough than obviously he is a talented deacon(this tune is somewhat confusing) and he/they will be able to sing it in english no problem or any language for that matter and agios O theos is not as difficult as it looks. I have a fairly nice recording of it, and it follows the tune well. Why it would be said in english is a different discussion because as minagir said the aspasmos doesn't sound that great in english(not many hymns do). So why not just say it coptic?
  • i couldn't find it in arabic.. can aybody help me?
  • oh. for some reason it's not with the old recordings pf Ibrahim Ayad. but the new ones he have it recorded....which are not online thoo
  • Minagir,

    Thanks a lot for giving us that recording, that was indeed beautiful! ;D

    GB
    Tony
  • [quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=6493.msg85889#msg85889 date=1208298163]
    Minagir,

    Thanks a lot for giving us that recording, that was indeed beautiful! ;D

    GB
    Tony


    welll........email the ADMINS. am not an admin!!!!!!
  • [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6493.msg85864#msg85864 date=1208275825]
    [quote author=minagir link=topic=6493.msg85859#msg85859 date=1208273338]
    i didn't hear this yet, but it might be it:
    http://coptichymnsinenglish.net/aspasmos watos great lent.MP3

    Yup thats it, but QT if one knows this tune well enough than obviously he is a talented deacon(this tune is somewhat confusing) and he/they will be able to sing it in english no problem or any language for that matter and agios O theos is not as difficult as it looks. I have a fairly nice recording of it, and it follows the tune well. Why it would be said in english is a different discussion because as minagir said the aspasmos doesn't sound that great in english(not many hymns do). So why not just say it coptic?


    OK. Here's my view:

    THe recording was good. But, before we take this as the "official version in English" , can we let the Australian boys have a chance 1st at doing this?? I think there's something missing... there's too many hazzat's... the words of course are beautiful... we all love that, but I think it needs something. They definately sing together well. Why not ask them to sing it again but use less hazzat's on vowels?? In arabic, this hymn is absolutely wonderful... still, in English, although they sing well, there's something missing.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
  • [quote author=coptic pharaoh link=topic=6493.msg85882#msg85882 date=1208295048]
    i couldn't find it in arabic.. can aybody help me?


    Yeah, i agree. I'd like this in arabic. Its fits perfectly.
  • hello,
    i found this..the first half is in arabic the second half is in english
    ENJOY!


    pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
    -sister in Christ
  • [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6493.msg85930#msg85930 date=1208334554]
    [quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6493.msg85864#msg85864 date=1208275825]
    [quote author=minagir link=topic=6493.msg85859#msg85859 date=1208273338]
    i didn't hear this yet, but it might be it:
    http://coptichymnsinenglish.net/aspasmos watos great lent.MP3

    Yup thats it, but QT if one knows this tune well enough than obviously he is a talented deacon(this tune is somewhat confusing) and he/they will be able to sing it in english no problem or any language for that matter and agios O theos is not as difficult as it looks. I have a fairly nice recording of it, and it follows the tune well. Why it would be said in english is a different discussion because as minagir said the aspasmos doesn't sound that great in english(not many hymns do). So why not just say it coptic?



    OK. Here's my view:

    THe recording was good. But, before we take this as the "official version in English" , can we let the Australian boys have a chance 1st at doing this?? I think there's something missing... there's too many hazzat's... the words of course are beautiful... we all love that, but I think it needs something. They definately sing together well. Why not ask them to sing it again but use less hazzat's on vowels?? In arabic, this hymn is absolutely wonderful... still, in English, although they sing well, there's something missing.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents.


    What do you mean too many hazzat?? they didn't add to the tune more or less than anyone else who chants this does, where are they supposed to put the hazzat? on the consonents?? that would sound ridiculous, all of the hazzat in ANY hymn is ALWAYS on a vowel. No offense to any Australian guys on here but i don't think they can do anybetter than anyone in the US or abroad(at least until i hear a recording by them, do you have one??)
  • There's a song by Farid Al Attrache where he actually prolongs singing (hazzat) on a consonent (the letter L actually).

    Basically, its obvious that they put the hazzats so it matches with the arabic.. but somehow, it doesn't work. Musically speaking, and this is subjective, I think that its missing some seasoning?

    Anyway, the main point is that at least we have the meaning in English. For those that know a bit of arabic, we pray during the mass.
  • Wow thats different i've never heard something like that before, good to know ;) However i was not disagreeing with you that its missing something, but honestly what more do you want from them? This is probably as good as any hymn in english can get, obviously Coptic is the BEST then arabic(since both are more or less musical languages) but english is not. Personally the only english things i listen to are the liturgies(i have one liturgy by abouna Antonious hanna, where most is in english(all actually) but the deacon does an amazing job putting the tunes from Coptic instead of arabic, and of course abouna is amazing) but other than that its either arabic or coptic for me
  • actually, believe it or not, many classic egy singer sometimes take musical parts of our alhan. i know hgb Makarios who works with hgb Rafael in many things concerning rites and alhan are searching for these things.
  • in this link,

    http://www.saintmina-holmdel.org/Multimedia/l.php?ID=118

    who is "Barsoom Ayad?"

    Is he Ibrahim Ayad's dad or what because he said "alqomos"

    He introduces the people who participated in this liturgy in the beginning. Thanks.
  • [quote author=minagir link=topic=6493.msg85947#msg85947 date=1208366624]
    actually, believe it or not, many classic egy singer sometimes take musical parts of our alhan. i know hgb Makarios who works with hgb Rafael in many things concerning rites and alhan are searching for these things.


    You know Anba Rafael??

    Blessed are u Mina!!
  • [quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=6493.msg86713#msg86713 date=1209933898]
    [quote author=minagir link=topic=6493.msg85947#msg85947 date=1208366624]
    actually, believe it or not, many classic egy singer sometimes take musical parts of our alhan. i know hgb Makarios who works with hgb Rafael in many things concerning rites and alhan are searching for these things.


    You know Anba Rafael??

    Blessed are u Mina!!


    well not personally......i know about many things he does, i have seen him once in our church. but that's about it.
  • Anba Rafael was in the same year (dof3a) in Medical college (ainshams) as my dad. Pretty weird.
  • [quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6493.msg86742#msg86742 date=1209974500]
    Anba Rafael was in the same year (dof3a) in Medical college (ainshams) as my dad. Pretty weird.


    I'm not saying I watch CTV just to hear Anba Rafael, but I'd prefer it if he had his own program.
  • He does have his own program - the one where he goes through books by the Fathers such as Popes Cyril I, Athanasius the Apostolic and goes through their works explaining how they overcame the heretics, and putting it in simple terms for people to understand words like "ousia", and "hypostasis" and "nature". He also did one at some point about the Holy Liturgy goingthrough its different components and the meaning of the mysteries etc.

    pray for me

    joe
  • [quote author=josephgabriel link=topic=6493.msg86766#msg86766 date=1210005708]
    He does have his own program - the one where he goes through books by the Fathers such as Popes Cyril I, Athanasius the Apostolic and goes through their works explaining how they overcame the heretics, and putting it in simple terms for people to understand words like "ousia", and "hypostasis" and "nature". He also did one at some point about the Holy Liturgy goingthrough its different components and the meaning of the mysteries etc.

    pray for me

    joe


    I can't believe i missed that. :(
  • I think its still on - air

    the original program is on Sundays on 4.15pm GMT
    Repeated - Monday at 3.45pm GMT
                    Thursday at 3.45pm GMT
                    Friday 4.15pm GMT

    pray for me

    joe
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