Sin (leading/not leading) to death 1 John 5:16-17

f753789

hello,
can some1 pls explain to me wat the bolded part means? i find it kind of confusing and  contradicting itself in a way..i dont understand it..pls help me with it..

1 John 5:13-21

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

thank u in advance..

pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Chirst

PopeKyrillos

I think sin leading to death would be a sin which you automatically go to hell if you commit it. For example-suicide, theft, homosexuality. I know they're are more, and you can find them in the first epistle of St. Paul to the corinthians.

Unknown

I think the sins mentioned in these verses that lead to death are: denial of Jesus Christ or leaving the faith and the worship of idols. God forbid, amen.

GBU

Hezekiel

I think,the reference is to the  deadly sins that lead to the death of the soul:

Galatians 5:19-21 
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Also the OLD TESTAMENT has similar listings:

Proverbs 6:16-19 (New King James Version)
16 These six things the LORD hates,
      Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
      17 A proud look,
      A lying tongue,
      Hands that shed innocent blood,
      18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
      Feet that are swift in running to evil,
      19 A false witness who speaks lies,
      And one who sows discord among brethren.

Thus,if one dies without repenting and confessing some of these grave sins,then Hell will be cast upon them.

coptic pharoah

[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6488.msg85730#msg85730 date=1208187081]
I think sin leading to death would be a sin which you automatically go to hell if you commit it. For example-suicide, theft, homosexuality.


Theft is not leading to hell... not if u confess and give the suff back... what do u think happened to the Right hand Theif while he was on the Cross beside Jesus... he was a sinner and a THIEF... 

Hezekiel

Coptic P,

You won't go to hell,if you repent from the heart and confess of all your sins,not just theft.The Thief who was crucified with our Lord was saved,not because he gave back the stuff which he stole, but because he recognized his sins and repented.He sinned all his life,but due to the abundant mercies of our Lord, he was able to  'steal' Paradise within few hours.

coptic pharoah

i know... but if u can give te stuff back then go ahead..not just leave it at ur house..go steal..go confess and leave it in ur roomm..........  well..u get the point...

f753789

hello,
i thank u guys all soo much for replying ..but i still dont have a clear view of the message of that passage
-in the book of Romans 6:23:

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

in other words SIN=DEATH.. it doesnt put categories of sins and sins leading to death it is clear that it is concrete and definate that SIN  is DEATH..
the dictionary definition of sin is:
"A condition of estrangement from God"
i dont know if that helps in answering my question at all..sorry :-\

pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Christ

Christrules

[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6488.msg85730#msg85730 date=1208187081]
I think sin leading to death would be a sin which you automatically go to hell if you commit it. For example-suicide, theft, homosexuality. I know they're are more, and you can find them in the first epistle of St. Paul to the corinthians.


Technically the only sin you would go to hell for without a chance of returning is suicide...
the other sins you can repent and confess and God will accept you!

jydeacon

All you guys are correct, ALL sin leads to death since it is a seperation from God, but when you repent and confessed as some have said you are forgiven. Sin Leading to death is suicide, and anyother sin you can't repent from or refuse to repent of. These sins lead to death since they are not forgiven. We don't believe in Venial and Mortal sins as the Catholics do

PopeKyrillos

It's unlogical to say that if you do a sin and don't repent from it, you don't inherit paradise. Yes, for some sins it works that way, but not all. All sin is bad, but some sins if you don't repent from them is an automatic ticket to hell. If you steal and don't confess, you go to hell. In first corinthians, it says neither theives nor homosexuals will go to heaven. It says other stuff too, but I don't recall.

Hezekiel

[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6488.msg85784#msg85784 date=1208219610]
In first corinthians, it says neither theives

Yea, but first you must define what is meant by "theft". While a sin is a sin, is stealing out of malcious intention or bad habit the same as stealing out of needs? Would a hungry man who has nothing to eat be condemned to go to hell if he stole a loaf of bread to survive for the day? Is stealing a mercedes car the same as stealing a candy bar? The same thing goes for 'lying' as well? Which lies qualifies you for hell? If a lie is a Lie, then all men have lied at one point in their life and I do not think,people do go to often to confessions to talk about their lies,because they do not even recognize or identify ( including myself) some of the lies they perpetrate as lies in their daily lives. Without realising it, we may have told a lie today in the form of excuses or not to offend someone by being truthful etc....and that is why, I think,the Lord Jesus said " what is not possible with men is possible with God'. We are saved  not only through faith, works, but by the grace of God.

I  also add that the unforgivable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

jydeacon

[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6488.msg85784#msg85784 date=1208219610]
It's unlogical to say that if you do a sin and don't repent from it, you don't inherit paradise. Yes, for some sins it works that way, but not all. All sin is bad, but some sins if you don't repent from them is an automatic ticket to hell. If you steal and don't confess, you go to hell. In first corinthians, it says neither theives nor homosexuals will go to heaven. It says other stuff too, but I don't recall.


Of course if you don't repent for a sin, you will not inherit paradise, its very clear, God is not wish washy, He is merciful there is a huge difference. If you do anything and don't confess you go to hell, not just stealing, or being a homosexual, again we don't believe in Venial sins or Mortal sins, all sins lead to death

Schoyen

Is it official teaching of the Coptic Church that suicide sends a person to hell?  If a person is a professing believer and has truly put his trust in Jesus, is he condemned to hell for killing himself?  Further, aren't there exceptions?  For example, a person who suffers from some depression..., and his doctors get his medications screwed up or the person accidently mixes them up, with the result being that he is thrown into such a mental depression that he kills himself.

In such matters, isn't God the judge?  I'm just cautious about making declarations about the dead.



Also, I think most scholars are really confounded by what John meant when he talked about the sin leading to death.  One wonders if this could refer to a believer who apostatises (i.e., renounces his faith) and hence, blasphemes the Holy Spirit.  If so, perhaps this is tied to Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-31 which seem to teach that apostasy is irremedial.

jydeacon

Yes i think it is, of course there are exceptions for the most part. But by you killing yourself you have given up on God in your life saying there is no hope for hapiness anyway. This in of itself is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

PopeKyrillos

Jydeacon, if you're right, this is pretty bad. Many people haven't connfessed and repented about all the sins they did. I think you meant to say sins that a person is hiding from their FOC, not sins that they honestly forgot about. I know they're is definately a difference between the two.

PK

jydeacon

Well yes of course there is a difference, thats why we pray certain prayers during the funeral service for those sins they have repented for but have either forgotton to tell the FOC or have not had a chance to. Of course like i said there are certain exceptions, a lot of things in our church are grey areas that go case by case.

coptic pharoah

there is this saying that goes like this:  Remebre your sins and God will forget them, foregetyour sins and God will Remember them....  soeey i don't know for sure who said this.. but i am pretty sure it is one f the famous monk saints   

p

Something to say, sin LEADS to death, and I believe the Bible clearly states, "The wage of sin is death." Also, think about it from this perspective, what does all sin have in common, whether how big or small it is? The answer is: they all prevent you from going to Heaven. So, PopeKyrollos, unfortunately I have to disprove you in what you said earlier,
[quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=6488.msg85784#msg85784 date=1208219610]
It's unlogical to say that if you do a sin and don't repent from it, you don't inherit paradise. Yes, for some sins it works that way, but not all. All sin is bad, but some sins if you don't repent from them is an automatic ticket to hell.

Any one sin can prevent you from Heaven, no matter how small it is, and no one is the Judge of that except for God. So we really shouldn't even be trying to Judge ourselves, but rather try to be the best people we can be.
In Christ,
aem581

jydeacon

Great answer aem581 :D

coptic pharoah

actually i think that i read in some religious book/website... it said that u should use Christianity to Judge yourselves, not others... because when u judge urslef, and know what is reight, wrong, what u have to stop etc... that will make u a better person

Unknown

[quote author=perfectsinner link=topic=6488.msg85724#msg85724 date=1208151016]
hello,
can some1 pls explain to me wat the bolded part means? i find it kind of confusing and  contradicting itself in a way..i dont understand it..pls help me with it..

1 John 5:13-21

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

thank u in advance..

pls keep my weakness in ur prayers
-sister in Chirst



Our nature, as Human beings, IS sinful. Sin defines my nature. but it is not leading to death as I have been granted eternal life and justified by Christ. All unrighteousness is sin. We fail in our lives by not doing what is right. God said :"blessed are you if you are persecuted for righteousness sake". Perhaps, because of our weak nature, we avoid such persecutions in order to advance in life. But, as a result, we lose the blessing that comes with suffering for righteousness sake.

The sin leading to death is that which is committed willingly and unwillingly. You know the 10 commandments. If you break them or someone you know breaks them (you should warn them!), whether in thought or in act then these are sins that lead to death.

The sins that do not lead to death are what Saint Paul talks about :"I do the things i do not want to do, and I do not do the things I wish to do" - he is complaining about his nature. THe human nature has a tendency towards sin. It doesn't mean he's sinned per se. But he fails in living according to God's ideal.

For example: God said love your enemy as yourself. OK? Someone tried to kill me once and I forgave him. However, I didnt invite him to my wedding. Well..OK.. its falling short of loving him as i love myself... but its not a sin.

What is a sin IS breaking any of God's commandments.

godislove260

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit means not accepting God's work in you until the day you die.
So when you commit suicide or live your whole life without repentance until you die, that's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. All other sins are forgivable if you truly repent for them.

Plz correct me if I'm wrong
Please pray for me
God Bless

Schoyen

I think the replies here, as diverse as they are, pretty much reflect the state of scholarship in regard to this passage.

I'm not sure anyone can give an interpretation which is full-proof.

I'm perfectly happy with conceding that I don't understand this passage and moving on! :)