Monkhood

Unknown

Hi,
You know we have 7 Sacraments of the Church:

1) Baptism
2) Confirmation
3) Confession
4) Communion
5) Marriage
6) Priesthood
7) Annointing of the Sick

My question is this: When someone becomes a Monk, this is not a sacrament (apparently, priesthood is different from monk-hood); yet a monk can become a bishop and a bishop can become and archbishop, and an archbishop (and i think a monk and above can become a pope).

But why then isn't monkhood a sacrament? Its as if the priest receives the grace of the Holy Spirit to become a Priest, yet a monk doesnt get that and he ends up as an archbishop?

Wouldn't that mean that a priest is higher than a monk AND a bishop?

So, why is the priesthood a sacrament and yet ordaining someone a monk is not a sacrament?? Surely a monk can also perform the same functions as a priest?

jydeacon

when some one becomes a monk he can't necesarly do a liturgy, that is for monks who are priests as well. but a regular monk is not a part of the priesthood because he doesn't do any priestly functions. second thing i would like to mention is that an archbishop is the pope in our church. maybe you are thinking of metropolitans. and a priest is not higher than a bishop but is higher than a monk. a bishop can do everything a priest can plus ordaining.(possibly other functions but i don't know of any more)  did that answer your question or did i just basically go around the answer with out actually saying it?

Unknown

Monasticism isn't a sacrement. It is just worldly death. This is not a sacrament as the (holy spirit isn't involved here)*1. Priesthood is a sacrement which monks will need to become bishops*2 or to pray in the liturgy (become priests). The ordination of monks can be preformed by a priest and note that ages ago in sheheet the hegomen (arch priest) was the one who did this ordination. I hope this helped.
pray for me +
*1 Every sacrement requires the dwelling of the holy spirit.
*2 Monks can become bishops but need to take the sacrement of priesthood. Monks without priesthood can't pray in the liturgy.

mmatt95

When a monk is ordained a priest, he does receive the sacrament of priesthood, and the same goes for the bisschop. These are all priestly ranks, unlike the monkhood, so a monk who is ordained a priest or a bisschop DID receive the sacrament of priesthood, and receives the authority to administer other sacraments (in the case of a bisschop, he can ordain other priests).

jydeacon

Just as matt said, a bishop is a priestly rank and is in fact a part of the priesthood as is the pope. but the bishop is ordained by the pope and their for has the laying of hands and is given the gift to ordain(a priest has the laying of hands as well but does not recieve this gift) the priest hood has three ranks to it with degrees in the ranks as well
1. Priests
     A. Priest
     B. Hegomens
2. Bishops
     A. Bishops
     B. Metropolitans
3. Pope
Technically the pope is still part of the bishopric but i consider him a rank of his own because of my high adoration for HH even though he really does belong to the bishopric since he is the head of the bishops (ra3ees el asakefa) sorry if you can't read my arabic to well

mmatt95

[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=5911.msg79146#msg79146 date=1194361925]
but the bishop is ordained by the pope

If i'm not mistaking a bisschop is ordained by the laying hands of (at least) 3 bisschops, and they can be any 3 bisschops - normally one of them is the pope. I'm not 100% positive, so if I'm wrong let me know ;)

jydeacon

That sounds familiar to me but i was watching the ordination of HG the late anba Karas and it was only HH who laid his hand on him but all the bishops blessed his vestments so i'm not quite sure but i think you are correct

Unknown

[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5911.msg79102#msg79102 date=1194279074]
2) Confirmation


Is confirmation the myron?????

jydeacon

Yes, but the correct term is confirmation

Unknown

What is the literal meaning of confirmation??

jydeacon

Its literal dictionary meaning is "that which is confirmed; verification." but in the church it is when you are anointed with the myron and the Holy Spirit comes and dwells inside you which every baptized person has and it is that you are being accepted into the church and are able to partake of the Holies and sacrements

Unknown

[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=5911.msg79171#msg79171 date=1194398870]
Yes, but the correct term is confirmation


Only in the Catholic and Protestant churches, where this sacrament is performed at around 12-14 years of age as a way for the now adult to confirm the baptism they received as an infant.

In the Orthodox Church it is generally referred to as Chrismation.

Unknown

Yes, the Holy Mystery of Chrismation is the Orthodox rite. It is given after the Holy Mystery of Baptism by Anointing and Signing of the Cross on different parts of the baptised person to transmit the Strength and Gifts of the Holy Spirit. These gifts are needed for arming the baptised in order to grow and perfect them in the New Creation and Life in Christ. It was given initially by laying on of hands, but as done in the Chrismation of the Kings and Prophets in the OT to receive the Holy Spirit, do we get Chrismated. Christ means to the Anointed One. We are Anointed after Christ to follow His lead.

The term Confirmation, however valid it may be, does not give that sense and as Orthodox11 pointed out, since they get Confirmed at a later age, it is more a "Confirmation" that they will indeed follow Christ.  There are many Charismatics who believe in a "second baptism" because they do not understand that the receiving of Gifts were at Confirmation, and how the Church often in those times had Baptism and Confirmation done simultaneously (though I must stress that as much as they intrinsically linked, they are two Separate Mysteries).

I am biased, but I just like our Terminology. I think "Confirmation", as much as this may be semantics, it is a term that I think is inadequate, especially in our practices and we should stick with tradition. :)

jydeacon

yes very sorry chrismation is the word I meant to put sorry again

Unknown

You have nothing to be sorry about!