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The Morning Doxology (tasbehat Baker)

LifeinChristLifeinChrist
edited December 1969 in Hymns Discussion
Does anyone have a recording of all of tasbehat baker (the Morning Doxology)? It would be greatly appreciated.

GBU

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=LifeinChrist link=topic=5779.msg77338#msg77338 date=1190340404]
    Does anyone have a recording of all of tasbehat baker (the Morning Doxology)? It would be greatly appreciated.

    GBU


    hmmmmm

    http://tasbeha.org/media/index.php?q=morning+doxology&type=track&action=search
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    lol sorry i forgot to mention in english. sorry about that.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    i have never heard it sung in english. And now even in most churches except monasteries, someone says it inaudible to themselves before matins starts.


    PK
  • pp
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5779.msg77617#msg77617 date=1190993610]
    i have never heard it sung in english. And now even in most churches except monasteries, someone says it inaudible to themselves before matins starts.


    PK

    Actually, I used to do the Morning Doxology in Coptic before Matins until the hegomen of my Church told me that I do not need to do it. Also, I do not believe that there are any recordings of English Morning Doxology anywhere on the Internet.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    i'm pretty sure you're supposed to do the morning doxology before matins. I have an instructional tasbeha cd by HCOC which says that the morning doxology is said, then the psalms of the first hour (prime), then matins followed by the liturgy

    PK
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    however if you want the morning doxology in coptic possibly arabic you might find it on this site.
  • pp
    Yeah, Pope Kyrillos is right about finding it on the site:
    Morning Doxology Regular
    Morning Doxology (Festive) - (3rd and 4th Tracks)
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    [quote author=PopeKyrillos link=topic=5779.msg77617#msg77617 date=1190993610]
    i have never heard it sung in english. And now even in most churches except monasteries, someone says it inaudible to themselves before matins starts.


    PK

    thats odd in my church we do it out loud but like no one is ever there because we come extra early to pray it, I have heard the one by Ibrahim Ayad but it isnt in english of course. But thank you for the links
  • pp
    No problem. Sorry though that there isn't any English Morning Doxology Recordings on the website.
  • mmatt95mmatt95

    I have an instructional tasbeha cd by HCOC which says that the morning doxology is said, then the psalms of the first hour (prime), then matins followed by the liturgy

    If I remember correctly, first you pray the psalms of the first hour, then u pray the morning doxology. Note that the troparia (the prayers after the gospel) of the first hour in fact ARE part of the morning doxology (You, the True Light - Piouwini enta efmi).

    Just another small note, during Matins you pray the praise of the Angels, the Trisagion etc: all the prayers before and after the doxology. So they need to be prayed during the first hour of the agpeya. This is a mistake that is often made. When you think about it it makes sense, why would you pray it double?
    So instead, after the troparia (and Lord have mercy + Holy + Absolution - not 100% sure about this btw), you go ahead with the Morning Doxology and wait untill abouna starts Matins.

    PS the same really goes for the 12th Hour prayers, that you pray before the Vesper praise and Vespers!
  • pp
    [quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5779.msg77879#msg77879 date=1191449083]

    I have an instructional tasbeha cd by HCOC which says that the morning doxology is said, then the psalms of the first hour (prime), then matins followed by the liturgy

    If I remember correctly, first you pray the psalms of the first hour, then u pray the morning doxology. Note that the troparia (the prayers after the gospel) of the first hour in fact ARE part of the morning doxology (You, the True Light - Piouwini enta efmi).

    Just another small note, during Matins you pray the praise of the Angels, the Trisagion etc: all the prayers before and after the doxology. So they need to be prayed during the first hour of the agpeya. This is a mistake that is often made. When you think about it it makes sense, why would you pray it double?
    So instead, after the troparia (and Lord have mercy + Holy + Absolution - not 100% sure about this btw), you go ahead with the Morning Doxology and wait untill abouna starts Matins.

    PS the same really goes for the 12th Hour prayers, that you pray before the Vesper praise and Vespers!

    Yeah, Hos Erof, you are right. In the Holy Psalmody book by St. Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church of California, they mention that you must say the First Hour Psalms before. Our Church, though, doesn't say the First Hour Psalms for some reason. I am not sure why.
    P.S.: Vespers is 11th Hour not 12th.
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    You are right about everything but you still pray the 12th hour in the agpeya i believe because there is no other time between the vespers praises and tasbeha that you pray the agpeya except before the midnight praises in which you pray the midnight hour.
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    Oh yes you are right, but I never meant to say that we don't pray the 12th hour Agpeya. It's just that often people will pray "tafadal ya Rab - Graciously..." and the Trisagion etc etc, while these prayers are to be said during Vespers.

    So the same rule as the First hour is applied here. You stop after the troparia, then you probably say 41 x Lord Have Mercy, followed by Holy Holy Holy and the absolution, and you keep the other prayers for Vespers:

    Graciously                                                      =>
    Holy God                                                        all three to be said after the
    Hail to You: the beginning of the doxologies          Litany for the  departed


    we magnify you                                              =>
    the creed                                                      both to be said after the doxologies
  • pp
    [quote author=Hos Erof link=topic=5779.msg77885#msg77885 date=1191455644]
    Oh yes you are right, but I never meant to say that we don't pray the 12th hour Agpeya. It's just that often people will pray "tafadal ya Rab - Graciously..." and the Trisagion etc etc, while these prayers are to be said during Vespers.

    So the same rule as the First hour is applied here. You stop after the troparia, then you probably say 41 x Lord Have Mercy, followed by Holy Holy Holy and the absolution, and you keep the other prayers for Vespers:

    Graciously                                                       =>
    Holy God                                                        all three to be said after the
    Hail to You: the beginning of the doxologies          Litany for the  departed


    we magnify you                                               =>
    the creed                                                       both to be said after the doxologies

    I see, but why don't they pray the 11th Hour if the 11th Hour is called Vespers and the 12th Hour is called Compline?
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    The 11th and twelth hour are supposed to be prayed by everyone inaudibly before asheya starts.
  • pp
    Thanks, PopeKyrillos, I'll try to do that before Vespers from now on.
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    Sorry for the confusion, the 9th and 11th and 12th hours are prayed before vespers.
    I only mentioned the 12 hour in my previous posts because it's the only hour which has many prayers after the troparia (just like the first hour) - which was the point I was discussing. After the 9th and 11th hour you only pray Lord have Mercy 41 times, and Holy Holy Holy!
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    as well they are not inaudibly there are as a congregation just as you would before liturgy with the third hour and the sixth hour on sunday. (third sixth AND ninth on weekdays except saturday when only third and sixth are prayed.)
  • pp
    Dear LifeinChrist,
    Are you saying I can start this in my Church? Can I start from this Saturday on, until God knows when? Is reading 9th - 12th Hours necessary, or not?
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    Its not 100 % necessary i mean it depends on the church like my church we have a scheduale we like to stick to, if we see that the agpeya is going to delay us one person reads inaudiably but i usually try to get to church 15- 20 mins early so that we have time because not many people attend vespers praises it is usually me and one or two other deacons but it is hard to read all the psalms... but if there is time i think it is more beneficial to read pray the agpeya as a church out loud. this ofcourse is not my decision it is up to ur church, not all churches do that and i am not 100% sure that is has to be out loud but i am 100% sure that it has to be prayed, the 9th 11th and 12th hours.
  • PopeKyrillosPopeKyrillos
    Praying the Ninth, Eleventh and Twelth hours audibly is not usually done. Like i said before, everyone prays it by themselves before asheya starts. In my church, between the people present, one deacon divides the psalms equally among the people to ensure all the psalms have been read. Then, everybody reads their assigned psalms, reads the gospel, litanies, kirya eleison, absolution etc inaudibly.
  • pp
    Dear LifeinChrist and PopeKyrillos
    So it isn't required, it is optional, to say it out loud. But it must be expressed someway or another (reading in your head, outloud, whatever). One more thing, are there any rites to this, like may it change for Palm Sunday or the Saturdays of Lent or Kiahk?
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    The rites of Morning Doxology don't EVER change, it is prayed throughout the entire year (festal, annual, lent, kiahk, palmsunday) in its known Adam tune. The only exception for this is Holy Week, starting from Monday untill Holy Friday. You don't pray them at all, but we don't pray the entire agpeya during Holy Week so that's not so weird.
    Note that the morning doxology is actually prayed on Bright saturday AND during matins of the Resurrection feast in the hymn that we call "the seven ways" hymn, and also partly in the festal introduction of the Verses of the Cymbals. So consider Holy week starts from monday and ends friday for this morning-doxology-agpeya-rite ;)

    As for the Agpeya, if I remember correctly, during Great Lent we pray only the 11th and 12th hour in the evening of saturday. I can't remember if this is applied to all fasting days, i'd have to check when I get home.
    The rest of the weekdays of Lent there's no vespers - note also that we pray the third up untill the 12th hour during the weekday liturgies of Lent.
  • LifeinChristLifeinChrist
    I'm sorry to nag but again if anyone has a copy of english morning praises can they please send it to me via email or send me a link.
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