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fun pleasure
hey guys i wanted peoples view on the following?
1 Doubt
has anyone come across matters where word from the bible, commandments, are not enough. sheer knowledge is not enough for the renewal of mind. it is not enough to perfect the faith. and in some cases it can reach a point where words are casting big doubts. lik in my case.
2 almost everything we do that can be defined as fun pleasureable is against God or has nothing to do with the coming life and is a waste of time or it is an opportunity to commit sin anything that is to come cannot be described by us for it beyond us and that which we call sin and its punishment hell while has many imaginations quite often is not enough to cause a complete renwal of the mind heart soul body and spirit to flee sin. we may still toil with the particular sins commit to them or be lax about our spiritual life. why? waht is the solution?
3 i am having doubts with issues related with fun i know waht Gods commandments are but i doint follow just becuase of the instructions i want to know more more than just words or knowldge if it says do not sin be chaste i wanna know what do i gain by following that and waht i lose by not following that more than the words for words alone are not causing me to have a purified faith
has anyone ever had any experience of the sought or know of monks who did? and God intervened.
i fear i will catch my self in grave sin if i do not rectfy this doubt soon?
cheers pray for me
1 Doubt
has anyone come across matters where word from the bible, commandments, are not enough. sheer knowledge is not enough for the renewal of mind. it is not enough to perfect the faith. and in some cases it can reach a point where words are casting big doubts. lik in my case.
2 almost everything we do that can be defined as fun pleasureable is against God or has nothing to do with the coming life and is a waste of time or it is an opportunity to commit sin anything that is to come cannot be described by us for it beyond us and that which we call sin and its punishment hell while has many imaginations quite often is not enough to cause a complete renwal of the mind heart soul body and spirit to flee sin. we may still toil with the particular sins commit to them or be lax about our spiritual life. why? waht is the solution?
3 i am having doubts with issues related with fun i know waht Gods commandments are but i doint follow just becuase of the instructions i want to know more more than just words or knowldge if it says do not sin be chaste i wanna know what do i gain by following that and waht i lose by not following that more than the words for words alone are not causing me to have a purified faith
has anyone ever had any experience of the sought or know of monks who did? and God intervened.
i fear i will catch my self in grave sin if i do not rectfy this doubt soon?
cheers pray for me
Comments
this somewaht harkens to the depth of waht i am trying to say for i know i personally i am not bearing green leaves and the reason is as thus stated
if you are saying that sometimes words of the Bible don't touch your heart or aren't effective in your life , ask for the The Holy Spirit through prayers and taking the Holy communion on regular bases...
sometimes these thoughts are just from the devil and needs you to be patient in fighting them. i know what you are talking about, i was told the same things many times but i thought about that and got to some conclusions:
- it depends on what's your idea of " having fun" if there is nothing against God in your fun i think it's ok..e.g having fun for me is going out with friends , sharing our stories and news , singing (my friends and i are like a band) , maybe sometimes hiking..nothing is wrong with that.
- i don't think it's a waste of time because all the time i work so hard and need this time to relax and be able to continue working or else i'll come to the point where i'll shut down you are absolutely right about that.. Very briefly: you will find peace and salvation only in the bosom of God , you can't find rest anywhere else ..but God is the Holy One he loves sinners but hates sin and if you would like to follow him and really find this peace you should live the sanctified life by Christ's blood .. the purpose of ALL the comandememnts is to be sanctified to find peace of the soul in this life and salvation in the after life, they are not restrictions.
Aghapy Karas well, knowledge was never enough for the renewal of the mind ..Don't forget the work of The Holy Spirit in your life..
if you are saying that sometimes words of the Bible don't touch your heart or aren't effective in your life , ask for the The Holy Spirit through prayers and taking the Holy communion on regular bases...
sometimes these thoughts are just from the devil and needs you to be patient in fighting them. i know what you are talking about, i was told the same things many times but i thought about that and got to some conclusions:
- it depends on what's your idea of " having fun" if there is nothing against God in your fun i think it's ok..e.g having fun for me is going out with friends , sharing our stories and news , singing (my friends and i are like a band) , maybe sometimes hiking..nothing is wrong with that.
- i don't think it's a waste of time because all the time i work so hard and need this time to relax and be able to continue working or else i'll come to the point where i'll shut down you are absolutely right about that.. Very briefly: you will find peace and salvation only in the bosom of God , you can't find rest anywhere else ..but God is the Holy One he loves sinners but hates sin and if you would like to follow him and really find this peace you should live the sanctified life by Christ's blood .. the purpose of ALL the comandememnts is to be sanctified to find peace of the soul in this life and salvation in the after life, they are not restrictions.
GREAT POST!
Couldn't have put it better myself. ;D
God is great.
I'm liking this site more and more. Perhaps I'm falling in love here, lol. Hmmmm...
Yes, ^^^ I agree... I felt like they were talking discussing just for me. :)
God is great.
I'm liking this site more and more. Perhaps I'm falling in love here, lol. Hmmmm...
LOL I've already fallen in love.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of joy, receiving the end of your faith- the salvation of your souls.
(1 Peter 1:3-9)
I think that this was so well written, that we should be mesmerized that a fisherman could write something so exuberant, yet sublime. It is really dense in soteriology and I think a great answer to the reason we suffer for righteousness sake.
Fun pleasure is a vanity that passes, (and not all are sinful); but in giving up our sinful pursuits and even suffering while we try to begin a union with Christ, can make sense in the light of the ultimate goal- the salvation of our souls.
He did call on us to repent of our sins, and that was for a very good reason; not only does sin lead to a loss of salvation in the next world, it usually leads to unhappiness in this one. OK, so you say to yourself, 'hey, what harm is there in giving way to lust?' Well, you might catch some disease; you might hurt another person; you show a lack of respect for yourself and for the other person; you dishonour your family and another family; you cause a lot of unhappiness. You might lead to more sin, and even to the great sin of infanticide which we call abortion; all for what? Just because you could not follow Our Lord's advice. You know He's right - and generally feel pretty miserable when you do sin.
Going out to party, hey, what harm can there be in a few drinks? Well, it might lead to the situation described above; you might drive and have a crash; you might get into a fight; you might choke on your own vomit. Was it really worth it?
If you can't find fun except in getting drunk or misbehaving, you need to address some pretty fundamental issues in your life, because you are heading for real unhappiness now - let alone what will happen after death.
No one says you can't date, or can't have a drink; but if you do both responsibly you are not only being a good Christian, you are likely to have a happier life. He's right - you know it!
In Christ,
Anglian
I can have a gf in discreet I can use safe sex practises I can get a hooker I can even perhaps in my ignorance go ahead wit abortion the point I am trying to drive here is that the real fundamental reason is that it violates what God didn’t set as the true practise that which is not true and is death in the life to come. Going ahead and having sexual relationship robs us of chastity and the crown of virginity this which all Christians who have followed will receive in the life to come look at St. Mina he got three crowns one for his celibacy which the same as virginity except it extents out onwards since he didn’t get married to be later defined as celebrant or celebacy then the next for asceticism and the third for martyrdom. Wow now that is amazing.
Chastity and the crown of virginity==u do ====ok by God reward ======not chaste=======sin--------punishment away from God ---repentance saved still accountable to judgment day.
the point is while this is the case I want to understand this at a more depth such that the contrition is so deep that I am never illed about what I want as such I become confined only to that which is true but such is not the case because my confession is the opposite I am not sure keda I am more being attracted to this sin because of all worldly show of it its achievement and everything it offers u but that’s not the point.
u could say I cant seem to view the huge value of crown of chastity to be as compared to not having it yet I know it is big it is important it is the result of being pure from association with spirit of lust actually achieving this means u have been in war with lust and u have been victorious. U have escaped fornication and adultery mine is the total opposite some days
Is not just a advice it is what life is by the Lord to its perfection.as far as i think
OF COURSE WE FEEL BAD why because our spirit then comes to its senses when it is no longer in its control by the lust of the flesh (body) and soul then it realises that perhaps it has done that which is against the will of his maker. The irony is that for those around us who have indulged in this sin without knowing God it is natural the guilt is minimum until comes a time when the spirit has no feeling (as to simplify) to that which was the true way the body and the lust of things takes over in such a manner that the spirit has no connection with God or the truth only the grace of God can then save him.
This is also what happens around us for those that u see on the streets who in front of them a blind has been drawn and unashamedly enough they go on to practise this. And to this we get drawn but woe to us for we approach this whist knowing the truth double will our judgment be for falling while knowing the truth.
And this is exactly my point I don’t wanna be that guy who falls I want to have such a perfect in-depth renewal of the idea of chastity---celibacy; of holiness in marriage; what I lose from losing my virginity and committing fornication and what I gain by seeking these such that I do have that gift in the end or die trying which is ultimately best I can do.
Try and understand this from this point of view u go to uni right engineering in order to get the gold in first class honours u will need to consistently demonstrate a gpa of 7 ie get above I think it is above 86 % in ALL ur subjects
Now that u know that u will work for that and work to it and for it
Except in my case I know that but can’t seem to fixate on it I feel I am missing out on more to convict to achieving this goal
The only reason I do not drink or over drink is cause it causes me ones again to go against the face of God. Not because I am going to die that can be solved. When a person over drinks he loses the fear of God and thus any sin can enter in and destroy his life. The biggest is swearing u might slip ur tongue and swear to God to a priest (not consciously) and above all commit sexual sin
That is why I don’t drink way over or at all not drinking cause I might crash is a worldly reason which shouldn’t either be taken lightly but that is not my reason.
All the other consequences basically mean
Drunk ====stupid unwise foolish ==against God==sin ==ultimately death
I am just saying this how the world functions and GOD IS against it. Something normal and his against it. Really read the following
It can only be done in very strict boundaries and many people do follow this but at some stage like me are sometimes unhappy wit the reason why?
Of course then need to clarify the GOOD SIDE IN MORE DEPTH NOT THE BED SIDE THE GOOD SIDE.
Having understood that at a higher level brings more strength in executing how u spend ur daily life how to be in control and not in DOUBT at any stage even if there is then its not the kind that throws u off from where u r headed ultimately. And also it helps in being very strong around people who r not with u. also u life then is a very strong powerful example to be living by and is a very attractive thing I terms of being a Christian and helps other as a matter of fact gives others energy
It s a bit of psychology
If u are overflowing with great things in ur life that u r going after then when u do spent time where ever it is let assume in moderation u r at a friends birthday celebrate have a chat then leave u don’t leave because u r not allowed u leave because staying on further doesn’t suit u goal u life purpose and WHAT u are after. Everything around there is not with u so u leave having that then give energy around u to people to also make a decision about themselves.
I am not saying I don’t do this anyway but in its just I don’t execute this in a powerful sure way also I am in doubt or elements of me is in conflict I am sure some of u have felt this and troubled u?
No one says you can't date, or can't have a drink; but if you do both responsibly you are not only being a good Christian, you are likely to have a happier life. He's right - you know it!
Yes I know this is true I wanna live that life but I am un confident a little. Am not convicted enough. My mind has had a complete renewal as perfectly ultimately I fall in desire to live the life contrary to this.
I know the answer is prayer fasting I am working on this but I want to hear what everybody else can input.
To do with pleasure fun
Anything that excites us can very easily be traced to sin lust what ever.
Honestly the first thing that interests me about a girl is how pretty she is or how talented she is in any case she will spark an interest which is related to with a certain pleasure that we perceive in our mind as good and desirable and therefore we conclude in common interests etc none of this is related to God.
Everything we like we do is a combination of things that excite us excites our senses interests us gives us pleasure how is any of this related to God? It isn’t
Examples
From spending too much time on tasbeha why u are bored and this is s safe interesting allowable and legal place to waste time in ur head i don’t care what u guys say we all do this
From watching television the food we eat the clothes we wear the music we listen to the places we go the friends we have everything we do here relates to that even for some of us unconsciously going to church can be related to as that and then what value does it hold in front of God???????
I guess what I am asking maybe is deep and is a question of perfection quite frankly my arms are sore from typing
More comments will be appreciated to correct me or for discussion.
What did u mean that Christ does not want us to repent? Of course He does. He gave the parable of the Prodigal Son. The son was living a very promiscuous life. He came to himself and said :"I was better off as a servant in my Father's house. I'll go and tell him :"father I've sinned against you and heaven, and am not worthy to be called your son..." (this is repentance).
God is waiting for the return of the sinner. A sinner, to return to God = REPENTANCE.
Karas - Enjoy your life WITH Christ. Fear the Lord in everything u do.
I have to quote from the Bible here rather than my own personal opinion; but look at what Isaiah says in chapter 5: 21: "Woe to those that turn right to wrong and wrong to right"
So, it is bad to change something that is "ok to do" and to say "Ohh!! This is not right".
And its bad to change something wrong and immoral to do, and say "Ohh, come on, this is ok".
How do u know what is right and wrong? Well, i remember once I lived in North America, and after the mass some Coptic men asked me if i wanted to go to a strip bar with them. I said in an INSTANT, without thinking :"Im not really that mad at God for me to go there.."
I guess that we can do some bad things when we are away from God, or feel that he has left us, but if you are baptised, u will know if its right or wrong, even if 100's of peolple do the same thing.
For me, drinking alcohol is FAR from wrong. ALthough the Coptic CHurch WILL never allow alcohol in a wedding party IN the Church canteen, I FEEL IT IS NOT WRONG.
However, getting drunk to the extent of being abusive, or doing anything immoral afterwards is wrong.
In Islam, they have in their Koran EVERY occassion that is right and wrong. There was a time that Mohammed's friends asked him and said :"we are away from our wives, and there is a beautiful girl in town, we want her and what can we do about it?" Mohammed told them and said "Marry her, but temporarily until u leave town". So, Mohammed's friends seemed to have the same problem as u. They wanted to have fun, and they felt bad about it, yet Mohammed found them a way to have fun without sinning.
lol
God knows what's in your heart. You know what's in your heart. U know when something is wrong. You know!! If not, ask abouna.
I guess being Egyptian, or if u live in Egypt, or any land of immigration, you'll find yourself with other Copts who have still maintained that same egyptian culture they had whilst in Egypt. That same culture that gives u a complex for talking to a girl outside a church, or for having a beer in the privacy of your home, or for making u feel guilty that u were male and are attracted to women. The Egyptian culture, if u take it TOO seriously, it could ruin your life and make u lose it.
I suggest this:
Go to Church every week, but only have catholic friends who are NOT egyptian. Or Coptic friends who are not egyptian. Stay away from Egyptian Coptic people for about 4 months. I'm sure you'll end up having more fun than before.
Like I said, i was told to go and tell guests at a wedding to stop kissing each other on the cheek (MARRIeD COUPLES!!) by some egyptian copt. He said it was wrong in the Church. This man has no respect for the sacrament of marriage. We say "Greet each other with a HOLY KISS". So, how can even kissing be wrong? These islamised Coptic Christians have changed something pure and holy like "kissing" into something awful.
Good luck
Anglican,
What did u mean that Christ does not want us to repent? Of course He does.
Dear QT,
Brother, you are mistaken. He did not say that. He, in fact, said the opposite.
[quote author=Anglian link=topic=5740.msg76718#msg76718 date=1189463573]
We should not be frightened to enjoy ourselves - Christ did not go about with a long face telling people not to laugh or have pleasure.
He did call on us to repent of our sins, and that was for a very good reason; not only does sin lead to a loss of salvation in the next world, it usually leads to unhappiness in this one.
Many thanks for pointing out that I did say that He wanted us to repent; I was merely pointing out that He does not say we must be a bunch of miserable puritans.
Of course, if we have a Christian understanding of life then we will do the right thing for the right reasons; but so many lack that, so in this world we must also use its arguments against it; although, of course, the best ones are the ones of the Church.
In Christ,
Anglian
well i went to mass yeterday had a long chat wit abuna i think i ve sorted a few things out in the old clank upstairs (my brain) as for eygption thingy well it is very confusing at times.
the main i learnt was the best way for now is to increase my attendance in the no of masses. that the word from my foc. i think i will stick to that. i think maybe that too messed with me
i am so far way from it all its sad though the new age coptic youth should be changing the impresions not for the worse but for the better sadly all i am finding are youth that are being weighed down on the to extreme sides either thier life is almost no diffrent to regular people on the street or they are into the whole eygptian thing which aaaa doersnt digest with me at all.
well that is sad to some extent any way cheers guys!
cheers people,
well i went to mass yeterday had a long chat wit abuna i think i ve sorted a few things out in the old clank upstairs (my brain) as for eygption thingy well it is very confusing at times.
the main i learnt was the best way for now is to increase my attendance in the no of masses. that the word from my foc. i think i will stick to that. i think maybe that too messed with me
i am so far way from it all its sad though the new age coptic youth should be changing the impresions not for the worse but for the better sadly all i am finding are youth that are being weighed down on the to extreme sides either thier life is almost no diffrent to regular people on the street or they are into the whole eygptian thing which aaaa doersnt digest with me at all.
well that is sad to some extent any way cheers guys!
lol, you cannot say that people are islamised Coptic Christians. The word you are looking for isn't islamised but extremist.
Dear Thomas,
Many thanks for pointing out that I did say that He wanted us to repent; I was merely pointing out that He does not say we must be a bunch of miserable puritans.
Of course, if we have a Christian understanding of life then we will do the right thing for the right reasons; but so many lack that, so in this world we must also use its arguments against it; although, of course, the best ones are the ones of the Church.
In Christ,
Anglian
Anglican, im sorry.
[quote author=karas7 link=topic=5740.msg76769#msg76769 date=1189574425]
cheers people,
well i went to mass yeterday had a long chat wit abuna i think i ve sorted a few things out in the old clank upstairs (my brain) as for eygption thingy well it is very confusing at times.
the main i learnt was the best way for now is to increase my attendance in the no of masses. that the word from my foc. i think i will stick to that. i think maybe that too messed with me
i am so far way from it all its sad though the new age coptic youth should be changing the impresions not for the worse but for the better sadly all i am finding are youth that are being weighed down on the to extreme sides either thier life is almost no diffrent to regular people on the street or they are into the whole eygptian thing which aaaa doersnt digest with me at all.
well that is sad to some extent any way cheers guys!
lol, you cannot say that people are islamised Coptic Christians. The word you are looking for isn't islamised but extremist.
No. I meant "Islamised".
I proved this to my Coptic friends. I said to them to tell me what was Coptic and what was not Coptic in their culture. A lot of things they do, or take for granted "Haram" and "not haram" have NOTHING to do with Christianity. NOTHING. But they are influenced by Islam. Only natural, they are living in Egypt with millions of muslims every day.
i'll tell u this, in my family there are: 1 bishop, 2 priests , 1 nun and plenty of deacons and we live in Egypt , according to u we should be "islamised" , extremists , and just don't know how to enjoy our time..well, i'm affraid i'll dissapoint u : we are not AT ALL. :D :D
-i don't denie the inflence of the islamic culture on SOME of the copts, but i think that priests all the time try to mention that there is no such thing in christiany called haram and halal. we're doing our best....
- some people think that by avoiding alcoholics they are being serious about their salvation instead of risking of getting drunk etc..i can't say they are totally wrong, it's just their way.
i think i made my point.
i'll tell u this, in my family there are: 1 bishop, 2 priests , 1 nun and plenty of deacons and we live in Egypt , according to u we should be "islamised" , extremists , and just don't know how to enjoy our time..well, i'm affraid i'll dissapoint u : we are not AT ALL. :D :D
-i don't denie the inflence of the islamic culture on SOME of the copts, but i think that priests all the time try to mention that there is no such thing in christiany called haram and halal. we're doing our best....
- some people think that by avoiding alcoholics they are being serious about their salvation instead of risking of getting drunk etc..i can't say they are totally wrong, it's just their way.
i think i made my point.
Do u wear a hijab? Or have u ever grown your beard or mustache?
Beard and a hijab eh? Must be that extremist in Pakistan who tried to escape disguised as a woman.
On the lighter side still, this morning's London Times had a cartoon of Osama bin Ladin with his newly darkened beard saying 'I am not afraid to dye for Islam'.
In Christ,
Anglian
and p.s. QT, no worries.
I would love to shake this cartoonist's hand. That is classic!
Do u wear a hijab? Or have u ever grown your beard or mustache?
Headcoverings for women and growing ones beard are both traditions the Muslims stole from us.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5740.msg76790#msg76790 date=1189611214]
Do u wear a hijab? Or have u ever grown your beard or mustache?
Headcoverings for women and growing ones beard are both traditions the Muslims stole from us.
Indeed, and what a pity that, whilst they were at it, they didn't adopt the principles of loving your enemy and the Truth that Jesus is the Risen Lord!
In Christ,
Anglian
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5740.msg76790#msg76790 date=1189611214]
Do u wear a hijab? Or have u ever grown your beard or mustache?
Headcoverings for women and growing ones beard are both traditions the Muslims stole from us.
They stole that from us? And wearing the Hijab came from us?? How did that come from us? What about the Niqab??
People fail to realise that nothing, and i mean NOTHING, looks as cool as a woman in a Niqaab riding a moped. All you see are her eyes, and she's wearing black from head to toe.
They stole that from us? And wearing the Hijab came from us?? How did that come from us?
Go into church and take a look at pretty much any icon of any female saint hanging on the wall. What's on her head? I'm afraid they came up with that one on their own. I beg to differ. Have you ever seen a woman wearing a niqab while riding a rollercoaster at a themepark? Way cooler than moped imho :P
Indeed, and what a pity that, whilst they were at it, they didn't adopt the principles of loving your enemy and the Truth that Jesus is the Risen Lord!
When the motivation behind starting a new religion is the aquisition of loot and taxes through conquest and political power, beards and headscarves work well, compassion and humility not so well.
[quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5740.msg76888#msg76888 date=1189699464]
I beg to differ. Have you ever seen a woman wearing a niqab while riding a rollercoaster at a themepark? Way cooler than moped imho :P
:D
Oh Lord, the hilarity of the niqaab. It's hard to take a religion that imposes that sort of dress on people seriously.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
Oh Lord, the hilarity of the niqaab. It's hard to take a religion that imposes that sort of dress on people seriously.
why not?? do you find humour in this?? i see no humour....may i say ur humour is at default...how dare u find the religion of another humouros!?! yes we dont agree with their dress code nor beliefs but who are you to make such a statement....use you empathy skills..and u will see with ur three eyes that clearly one who doenst take another's religion serisously and discuss it in a sensitive manner is psychologically distrurbed
My humour is at 'default'? What does that even mean? And how dare you dare me to find another religion humourous? I am at complete liberty to feel any way about anything I so choose, and if you don't like it, tough. It seems you are still having difficulty separating a person from the religion they are practicing. I have made my feelings about Islam clear on these forums, and I am not one to shirk away from them for the sake of some twisted sense of 'political correctness'. We have had a discussion in another thread where I explicitly talked about how one can (and should) respect the individual, but that does not somehow mean that we should respect the religion. Perhaps you should look back and refresh your memory, as it seems to be failing. Clearly one, who for some odd reason is attempting to portray the fact that they are taking this discussion as seriously as you are, is psychologically disturbed.