Well. Lets face it, I have to say that to re-capture my faith. I am not about to become Muslim am I? I want to defend my faith at all costs. Lets face it, compared to most faiths the Orthodox faith is beautiful! Look at our saints and scholars. Yes Islamic culture screwed it up big time (that is since the followers of Mohammed came to Egypt)!!! But at its core, our faith is DAHEB (GOLD)!!!
I really dont think we will be truly able to answer those claims in the move. Unless all those historical claims are either incorrect or craftily mis-represented. What we do not know cannot hurt us!
I see alot of discussion on this topic, yet can anyone prove the theory of the different Gods all having the same birth date and similar life as Jesus false? I find it hard to believe that all these events happened similar to our lord and savior. Pray for me.
[quote author=Conqueror link=topic=5678.msg75919#msg75919 date=1187843257] I see alot of discussion on this topic, yet can anyone prove the theory of the different Gods all having the same birth date and similar life as Jesus false? I find it hard to believe that all these events happened similar to our lord and savior. Pray for me.
C
I do not think you can acurately prove the "...theory of the different Gods all having the same birth date and similar life as Jesus..." because the people who emerged with these ideas are archaeologists. They study cave scratchings, and etchings and the like. And besides, the conclusions of Archaeology and Anthropology rely on opinions made by these persons and the pre-concieved notions and world views they have held before the study. So in essance, you can read the books and what the establishment says; but how are we to believe that what the archaeologists and the establishment are saying is true?
The Romans (during the time of Christianity) were the establishment and we were persecuted by the establishment.
While I strongly believe it's not real, but suppose sharing a kind of "theoretical mathematically deduced repetitive date pattern" among so-called "gods" with Jesus, it means they suggest the fact that Jesus was God by some coincidence > God forbid!! do they imply also that these "other gods" each had a Virgin Mother honored by the visit of an Archangel who was sent by the Holy Trinity, to grow up then show and make a huge amount of goodness and miracles towards people, to be kind, humble, made us His children, then later accept to be EXECUTED on the CROSS, then RESURRECTED the 3rd DAY to SAVE ALL MANKIND and GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE? etc etc
Many of the "other gods" in the devised "pagan legends" had enemies among "other gods" like them. Satan is God's enemy and ours but he is no god at all but a creature. There is no matching at all in every aspect. The only matching you may think of would be partial only between some pagan religions, which points out that they had originated from the one mind of you know who defies God. Don't waste your time and faith on such destructive false doctrines: many pagan legends started off like this.
Acts 17, St Paul convincing the pagans in Athens 29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now He commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."
Man made intellectual deception build-ups are abundant. Stand firm in your faith, do not allow yourselves to become impressed by man made theories and doctrines, these first lead to death then will vanish after that.
While there are examples of pagan religions that show hints of similarities with Christianity, they are superficial at best. Most of these 'ancient' pagan religions that do resemble Christianity arose after the establishment of Christianity itself. The reason some mistakenly think that they pre-date Christianity is because most pagan religions were 'flexible'. That is to say, they would take from other religions and mix into their own. Thus, if one were to take the example of the Mithra myth, most argue that Christianity took from it. While the myth of Mithra does pre-date Christianity, as far as I know, the Mithra myth that supposedly mimics the life of Christ did not arise until after Christianity arose. Another thing to note, we are all creatures of God. Thus, somewhere inside all of us, we long to reconnect with Him. That being said, while Christianity is the fullness of Truth, other religions (including the pagan ones that pre-dated Christianity) contain elements of these truths as well. God would never forsake His creatures, and so, I don't believe for one second, that it is a far-fetched notion that God did in fact speak to these people through their own pagan religions. While God had not revealed Himself as fully as He has now prior to the coming of Christ, that does not mean He did not still reach out by other means. So, if we see any sort of common link between a pagan faith and Christianity, then I think we can attribute it to God's common desire to reach all men with His love.
[quote author=Conqueror link=topic=5678.msg75919#msg75919 date=1187843257] I see alot of discussion on this topic, yet can anyone prove the theory of the different Gods all having the same birth date and similar life as Jesus false? I find it hard to believe that all these events happened similar to our lord and savior. Pray for me.
why is it so hard to belive taht. so what if dates are the same and their lives to.
what you need to understand is that we know and have "The Truth" whatelse would u go for.
i still don't get the main reasin for the video. they're, in a way, just confirming the existence of God and than deny His Son at the end. that's if what they're saying is true and they are documently proven....cuz it doesn't make sense y would u belive that deny somthing that is accordning to what u just said, the same! because as i said before, we know that our anciant egyptian religion was mainly close to the Trinity. that's why it was easy for egyptians to accept christiany as the truth.
What about sun worship? Wasn't praying to the sun what set Moses the Black on the path of Christianity? Christ is 'the light of the world'. Thus, one could reasonably associate sun-like images with Him. Even Scripture itself uses sun-like imagery to describe the glory of God. I'm not sure what that Catholic object is, nor do I know what purpose it serves. However, sun worship would almost certainly have been man's attempt at getting to know God, simply because the Sun is the brightest object in the sky, it produces light and heat, and its cycle of rising and setting has often been used as a metaphor of rebirth, which is what Christianity is all about: crucifying the old man, and being resurrected anew in Christ.
these, if am not mistaken, are fans that symbolize the cherobim and the seraphim...atleast in ouorthodox church. i dono knew about the catholic but am sure they have a sympolism. every church is effected by calture. and am sure they have an explaination for this....
and wait, why are we talking about catholics....we are Orthodox. lets stay that way and talk about that.
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5678.msg75946#msg75946 date=1187881303] [coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
What about sun worship? Wasn't praying to the sun what set Moses the Black on the path of Christianity? Christ is 'the light of the world'. Thus, one could reasonably associate sun-like images with Him. Even Scripture itself uses sun-like imagery to describe the glory of God. I'm not sure what that Catholic object is, nor do I know what purpose it serves. However, sun worship would almost certainly have been man's attempt at getting to know God, simply because the Sun is the brightest object in the sky, it produces light and heat, and its cycle of rising and setting has often been used as a metaphor of rebirth, which is what Christianity is all about: crucifying the old man, and being resurrected anew in Christ.
actually it is written: Malachi 4:2 But for you who revere my name, the Sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5678.msg75947#msg75947 date=1187881507] these, if am not mistaken, are fans that symbolize the cherobim and the seraphim...atleast in ouorthodox church. i dono knew about the catholic but am sure they have a sympolism. every church is effected by calture. and am sure they have an explaination for this....
and wait, why are we talking about catholics....we are Orthodox. lets stay that way and talk about that.
The reason we are talking about these Catholic objects is because Roman Catholocism represents Christianity in the world today. And guess what? We recognise them as a LEGITIMATE Christian sect. The arguments expressed on this video are directed mostly againsed the Catholic Church. Besides, Constantine was still a pagan and not a Christian. Yet the Catholics consider him and his wife saints. What did they do that was so saintly??? As a Roman he used Christianity as a device for social control. For goodness sake he was the Emperor of Rome, he needed something to consolidate his Empire as it was on the verge of falling apart. He was a pagan and seeing pagan ideas in Christianity he used them for his purposes. **NEWS FLASH** he used force agaised non-Christians.
What about sun worship? Wasn't praying to the sun what set Moses the Black on the path of Christianity? Christ is 'the light of the world'. Thus, one could reasonably associate sun-like images with Him. Even Scripture itself uses sun-like imagery to describe the glory of God. I'm not sure what that Catholic object is, nor do I know what purpose it serves. However, sun worship would almost certainly have been man's attempt at getting to know God, simply because the Sun is the brightest object in the sky, it produces light and heat, and its cycle of rising and setting has often been used as a metaphor of rebirth, which is what Christianity is all about: crucifying the old man, and being resurrected anew in Christ.
actually it is written: Malachi 4:2 But for you who revere my name, the Sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall.
It is not a question of metaphores it is a question of wheather or not the Christian faith was adapted from these pagan ideas. And therefore if Christianity is a fraud.
[quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75949#msg75949 date=1187883919] The reason we are talking about these Catholic objects is because Roman Catholocism represents Christianity in the world today. And guess what? We recognise them as a LEGITIMATE Christian sect. The arguments expressed on this video are directed mostly againsed the Catholic Church.
we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth. Christianity is represented by all those who are in it and it's Head, Jesus Christ, not one specific church the video wasn't directed to Catholicism but all christians.
Besides, Constantine was still a pagan and not a Christian. Yet the Catholics consider him and his wife saints. What did they do that was so saintly??? As a Roman he used Christianity as a device for social control. For goodness sake he was the Emperor of Rome, he needed something to consolidate his Empire as it was on the verge of falling apart. He was a pagan and seeing pagan ideas in Christianity he used them for his purposes. **NEWS FLASH** he used force agaised non-Christians.
Constantine was the first roman emperor to make Christianty the riligion of the empire. that is a great thing and that stoped the age of martyrs. He found the cross of our Lord. He was baptised on his deathbed even thoo he belived in christ from long ago before he became the emperor.
Is Christianity merely recycled paganism? No. Are there concepts in Christianity that are found in paganism? Yes. I think I've already been through this. When the Apostles went around preaching to the nations, did they borrow concepts from those nations to illustrate the validity of Christianity? Absolutely. Is that a crime? No. Does that somehow degrade Christianity? Of course not. Christ said of Himself that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. It is up to you to either accept His claim or not. In no other religion do you find a man make such claims, and then back them up. Nor do you find the eyewitnesses of this man go to their deaths, or endure the worst form of torture and still hold fast to their faith. The Apostles, and their disciples, never once recanted their claims despite every form and mode of persuasion known to man. If that does not speak volumes about the validity of the Faith, then nothing else will.
(Woot woot! There's a new senior member on these forums baby! :D)
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5678.msg75952#msg75952 date=1187884580] [quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75949#msg75949 date=1187883919] The reason we are talking about these Catholic objects is because Roman Catholocism represents Christianity in the world today. And guess what? We recognise them as a LEGITIMATE Christian sect. The arguments expressed on this video are directed mostly againsed the Catholic Church.
we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth. Christianity is represented by all those who are in it and it's Head, Jesus Christ, not one specific church the video wasn't directed to Catholicism but all christians.
Besides, Constantine was still a pagan and not a Christian. Yet the Catholics consider him and his wife saints. What did they do that was so saintly??? As a Roman he used Christianity as a device for social control. For goodness sake he was the Emperor of Rome, he needed something to consolidate his Empire as it was on the verge of falling apart. He was a pagan and seeing pagan ideas in Christianity he used them for his purposes. **NEWS FLASH** he used force agaised non-Christians.
Constantine was the first roman emperor to make Christianty the riligion of the empire. that is a great thing and that stoped the age of martyrs. He found the cross of our Lord. He was baptised on his deathbed even thoo he belived in christ from long ago before he became the emperor.
get ur facts rit ya habibi.
Yes perhaps it stopped the age of the martyrs but it ushered in the DARK AGES!!!
and as for the other statements:
HE WAS BAPTISED ON HIS DEATHBED??? NOW THAT IS CONVICTION FOR A MAN THAT USED CHRISTIANITY TO COMPLETELY REFORM HIS EMPIRE... I am sorry...But I recognize propaganda quite easily these days and that is definately propaganda!!!
[quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75954#msg75954 date=1187885148] Yes perhaps it stopped the age of the martyrs but it ushered in the DARK AGES!!!
what r u talking about. that wasn't around that time or even in his rule.
and as for the other statements:
HE WAS BAPTISED ON HIS DEATHBED??? NOW THAT IS CONVICTION FOR A MAN THAT USED CHRISTIANITY TO COMPLETELY REFORM HIS EMPIRE... I am sorry...But I recognize propaganda quite easily these days and that is definately propaganda!!!
am not convecting any one. that is what happend. he ended the age of martyrs ISN'T that good enough.
he reformed his empire for the better....that's not good enough.....
i don't care what praopaganda he did or not........he deserves respect
By making Christianity the official religeon that is what caused Christianity to become politicised which long after his rule caused the Dark Ages. The only reason that the age of martyrdom ended was because power, authority and control was consolidated into his hands by the use of Christianity. He was also able to show the pagans how pagan Christianity was by comparison which eased tensions quite a bit. For example: why do Catholics celebrate Christmas and Easter (it is supposed to be called Ressurrection Feast...remember?) at different times? The reason for this is because the pagans at the time of Constantine celebrated similar festivals on those dates.
I don't care what praopaganda he did or not........he deserves respect
Sounds like what many Egyptians would say about late president Abdel Nasser; who by the way persecuted many Egyptians who had issue with his policies. Or what many Americans would say about George W Bush who is litterally bankrupting this country and selling it to the Godless Communist Chinese!
I would also like to remind all of you that the Chinese (through the purchasing of $900bn in a mix of US bonds) will be able to crash the US Economy by selling these bonds all at once. And China has threatened to sell those bonds (Cutely called the Nuclear Option)
Is there any reason you post irrelevant material and then remove it? Also, I fail to see how Constantine plays any role in the validity of Christianity. He had no say in the founding of the faith. He had no say in canonizing the New Testament. He had no say in what was considered dogmatic regarding the Faith. He was just an emperor who legalized Christianity throughout the empire. Big whoop. The Faith has not changed as a result of this action.
[quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75957#msg75957 date=1187886503] why do Catholics celebrate Christmas and Easter (it is supposed to be called Ressurrection Feast...remember?) at different times? The reason for this is because the pagans at the time of Constantine celebrated similar festivals on those dates.
no genuius. we have diffrent dates because we use diffrent calendars.
I don't care what praopaganda he did or not........he deserves respect
Sounds like what many Egyptians would say about late president Abdel Nasser; who by the way persecuted many Egyptians who had issue with his policies. Or what many Americans would say about George W Bush who is litterally bankrupting this country and selling it to the Godless Communist Chinese!
well that was before abdelnaser becaem a freind with Pope Kerrolos. and Bush, what can u do....the church is not part of political matters...rit...
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5678.msg75952#msg75952 date=1187884580] we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth.
The word sect can be used in several ways and may be applied to pretty much any religious group, including Catholicism.
But may I ask what you mean by legitimate? The Roman Catholic Church is not part of the Body of Christ, and its apostolic succession was (if one is to believe the Fathers) forfeited when its bishops separated themselves from the Church. Nor does it hold fully to Apostolic teaching, much of which has been lost, distorted or added to. So in what way is the Catholic Church legitimate, and other schismatic/heretical groups are illegitimate?
Personally I would see such lables as misleading. As we proclaim in the Creed, there is only one legitimate Church (how Her borders are defined is another matter); you're either in or out.
Naturally, some are further from the truth than others, but I cannot see how you can differentiate between them by using words like 'legitimate' and 'illegitimate.'
[quote author=Orthodox11 link=topic=5678.msg75967#msg75967 date=1187891268] [quote author=minagir link=topic=5678.msg75952#msg75952 date=1187884580] we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth.
The word sect can be used in several ways and may be applied to pretty much any religious group, including Catholicism.
But may I ask what you mean by legitimate? The Roman Catholic Church is not part of the Body of Christ, and its apostolic succession was (if one is to believe the Fathers) forfeited when it's bishops separated themselves from the Church. Nor does it hold fully to Apostolic teaching, much of which has been lost, distorted or added to. So in what way is the Catholic Church legitimate, and other schismatic/heretical groups are illegitimate?
Personally I would see such lables as misleading. As we proclaim in the Creed, there is only one legitimate Church (how Her borders are defined is another matter); you're either in or out.
Naturally, some are further from the truth than others, but I cannot see how you can differentiate between them by using words like 'legitimate' and 'illegitimate.'
remember, that the story of christianity and the promise of God to send his son was around at all time, if Adam and Eve knew about Jesus Christ, and so there sons and the sons of there sons and so on, than everyone knew the story of christ way before christ was born, even though man split up because some became evil and worshipped false idols, while others stayed with the true God, the story of christ was known by the first man on earth Adam, and was passed down throughout humanity, so than, even the evil people in the world who worshipped false idols still knew the information about Christ and what he would do and what he would be called, and so they used this information and incorporated it into there own religiouse beleifs. The story of Horus in that video was incorrect first of all, and even if it was correct where did this information come from? In Egypt thousands of years before Christ? Well, wasnt Moses living in Egypt thousands of years before Christ.
by the way, that whole thing about the SUN and how for 3 days its "dead" and rises for one day....Is Not God controlling all this? Does God not choose when the sun rises and sets, and at the same time doesnt God use symbols and AWFUL LOT... Look at the book of Revelations, its ALL SYMBOLS... I personally find this video as Proof of the Living God, because God is using the earth in as many ways possible to show the world than Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and He is symbolizing his life using the earth and the stars. We celebrate christmas and easter every year by Going to chruch... is it not Possible that the heavens celebrate Christmas every year by using the earth and the stars to almost replay Jesus birth , and death and ressurection?
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5678.msg75966#msg75966 date=1187887717] [quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75957#msg75957 date=1187886503] why do Catholics celebrate Christmas and Easter (it is supposed to be called Ressurrection Feast...remember?) at different times? The reason for this is because the pagans at the time of Constantine celebrated similar festivals on those dates.
no genuius. we have diffrent dates because we use diffrent calendars.
I don't care what praopaganda he did or not........he deserves respect
Sounds like what many Egyptians would say about late president Abdel Nasser; who by the way persecuted many Egyptians who had issue with his policies. Or what many Americans would say about George W Bush who is litterally bankrupting this country and selling it to the Godless Communist Chinese!
well that was before abdelnaser becaem a freind with Pope Kerrolos. and Bush, what can u do....the church is not part of political matters...rit...
Yes the Catholics use a different calendar only because their calendar is based on a pagan calendar.
Comments
C
I see alot of discussion on this topic, yet can anyone prove the theory of the different Gods all having the same birth date and similar life as Jesus false? I find it hard to believe that all these events happened similar to our lord and savior. Pray for me.
C
I do not think you can acurately prove the "...theory of the different Gods all having the same birth date and similar life as Jesus..." because the people who emerged with these ideas are archaeologists. They study cave scratchings, and etchings and the like. And besides, the conclusions of Archaeology and Anthropology rely on opinions made by these persons and the pre-concieved notions and world views they have held before the study. So in essance, you can read the books and what the establishment says; but how are we to believe that what the archaeologists and the establishment are saying is true?
The Romans (during the time of Christianity) were the establishment and we were persecuted by the establishment.
Many of the "other gods" in the devised "pagan legends" had enemies among "other gods" like them. Satan is God's enemy and ours but he is no god at all but a creature. There is no matching at all in every aspect. The only matching you may think of would be partial only between some pagan religions, which points out that they had originated from the one mind of you know who defies God. Don't waste your time and faith on such destructive false doctrines: many pagan legends started off like this.
Acts 17, St Paul convincing the pagans in Athens
29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now He commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."
Man made intellectual deception build-ups are abundant. Stand firm in your faith, do not allow yourselves to become impressed by man made theories and doctrines, these first lead to death then will vanish after that.
While there are examples of pagan religions that show hints of similarities with Christianity, they are superficial at best. Most of these 'ancient' pagan religions that do resemble Christianity arose after the establishment of Christianity itself. The reason some mistakenly think that they pre-date Christianity is because most pagan religions were 'flexible'. That is to say, they would take from other religions and mix into their own. Thus, if one were to take the example of the Mithra myth, most argue that Christianity took from it. While the myth of Mithra does pre-date Christianity, as far as I know, the Mithra myth that supposedly mimics the life of Christ did not arise until after Christianity arose. Another thing to note, we are all creatures of God. Thus, somewhere inside all of us, we long to reconnect with Him. That being said, while Christianity is the fullness of Truth, other religions (including the pagan ones that pre-dated Christianity) contain elements of these truths as well. God would never forsake His creatures, and so, I don't believe for one second, that it is a far-fetched notion that God did in fact speak to these people through their own pagan religions. While God had not revealed Himself as fully as He has now prior to the coming of Christ, that does not mean He did not still reach out by other means. So, if we see any sort of common link between a pagan faith and Christianity, then I think we can attribute it to God's common desire to reach all men with His love.
I see alot of discussion on this topic, yet can anyone prove the theory of the different Gods all having the same birth date and similar life as Jesus false? I find it hard to believe that all these events happened similar to our lord and savior. Pray for me.
why is it so hard to belive taht. so what if dates are the same and their lives to.
what you need to understand is that we know and have "The Truth" whatelse would u go for.
i still don't get the main reasin for the video. they're, in a way, just confirming the existence of God and than deny His Son at the end. that's if what they're saying is true and they are documently proven....cuz it doesn't make sense y would u belive that deny somthing that is accordning to what u just said, the same!
because as i said before, we know that our anciant egyptian religion was mainly close to the Trinity. that's why it was easy for egyptians to accept christiany as the truth.
What about Pagan Sun Worship?
Look at Catholic Objects such as this:
What about sun worship? Wasn't praying to the sun what set Moses the Black on the path of Christianity? Christ is 'the light of the world'. Thus, one could reasonably associate sun-like images with Him. Even Scripture itself uses sun-like imagery to describe the glory of God. I'm not sure what that Catholic object is, nor do I know what purpose it serves. However, sun worship would almost certainly have been man's attempt at getting to know God, simply because the Sun is the brightest object in the sky, it produces light and heat, and its cycle of rising and setting has often been used as a metaphor of rebirth, which is what Christianity is all about: crucifying the old man, and being resurrected anew in Christ.
and wait, why are we talking about catholics....we are Orthodox. lets stay that way and talk about that.
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
What about sun worship? Wasn't praying to the sun what set Moses the Black on the path of Christianity? Christ is 'the light of the world'. Thus, one could reasonably associate sun-like images with Him. Even Scripture itself uses sun-like imagery to describe the glory of God. I'm not sure what that Catholic object is, nor do I know what purpose it serves. However, sun worship would almost certainly have been man's attempt at getting to know God, simply because the Sun is the brightest object in the sky, it produces light and heat, and its cycle of rising and setting has often been used as a metaphor of rebirth, which is what Christianity is all about: crucifying the old man, and being resurrected anew in Christ.
actually it is written:
Malachi 4:2
But for you who revere my name, the Sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall.
these, if am not mistaken, are fans that symbolize the cherobim and the seraphim...atleast in ouorthodox church. i dono knew about the catholic but am sure they have a sympolism. every church is effected by calture. and am sure they have an explaination for this....
and wait, why are we talking about catholics....we are Orthodox. lets stay that way and talk about that.
The reason we are talking about these Catholic objects is because Roman Catholocism represents Christianity in the world today. And guess what? We recognise them as a LEGITIMATE Christian sect. The arguments expressed on this video are directed mostly againsed the Catholic Church. Besides, Constantine was still a pagan and not a Christian. Yet the Catholics consider him and his wife saints. What did they do that was so saintly??? As a Roman he used Christianity as a device for social control. For goodness sake he was the Emperor of Rome, he needed something to consolidate his Empire as it was on the verge of falling apart. He was a pagan and seeing pagan ideas in Christianity he used them for his purposes. **NEWS FLASH** he used force agaised non-Christians.
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5678.msg75946#msg75946 date=1187881303]
[coptic]+ Iryny nem `hmot>[/coptic]
What about sun worship? Wasn't praying to the sun what set Moses the Black on the path of Christianity? Christ is 'the light of the world'. Thus, one could reasonably associate sun-like images with Him. Even Scripture itself uses sun-like imagery to describe the glory of God. I'm not sure what that Catholic object is, nor do I know what purpose it serves. However, sun worship would almost certainly have been man's attempt at getting to know God, simply because the Sun is the brightest object in the sky, it produces light and heat, and its cycle of rising and setting has often been used as a metaphor of rebirth, which is what Christianity is all about: crucifying the old man, and being resurrected anew in Christ.
actually it is written:
Malachi 4:2
But for you who revere my name, the Sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall.
It is not a question of metaphores it is a question of wheather or not the Christian faith was adapted from these pagan ideas. And therefore if Christianity is a fraud.
The reason we are talking about these Catholic objects is because Roman Catholocism represents Christianity in the world today. And guess what? We recognise them as a LEGITIMATE Christian sect. The arguments expressed on this video are directed mostly againsed the Catholic Church.
we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth. Christianity is represented by all those who are in it and it's Head, Jesus Christ, not one specific church
the video wasn't directed to Catholicism but all christians. Constantine was the first roman emperor to make Christianty the riligion of the empire. that is a great thing and that stoped the age of martyrs.
He found the cross of our Lord.
He was baptised on his deathbed even thoo he belived in christ from long ago before he became the emperor.
get ur facts rit ya habibi.
Is Christianity merely recycled paganism? No. Are there concepts in Christianity that are found in paganism? Yes. I think I've already been through this. When the Apostles went around preaching to the nations, did they borrow concepts from those nations to illustrate the validity of Christianity? Absolutely. Is that a crime? No. Does that somehow degrade Christianity? Of course not. Christ said of Himself that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. It is up to you to either accept His claim or not. In no other religion do you find a man make such claims, and then back them up. Nor do you find the eyewitnesses of this man go to their deaths, or endure the worst form of torture and still hold fast to their faith. The Apostles, and their disciples, never once recanted their claims despite every form and mode of persuasion known to man. If that does not speak volumes about the validity of the Faith, then nothing else will.
(Woot woot! There's a new senior member on these forums baby! :D)
[quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75949#msg75949 date=1187883919]
The reason we are talking about these Catholic objects is because Roman Catholocism represents Christianity in the world today. And guess what? We recognise them as a LEGITIMATE Christian sect. The arguments expressed on this video are directed mostly againsed the Catholic Church.
we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth. Christianity is represented by all those who are in it and it's Head, Jesus Christ, not one specific church
the video wasn't directed to Catholicism but all christians. Constantine was the first roman emperor to make Christianty the riligion of the empire. that is a great thing and that stoped the age of martyrs.
He found the cross of our Lord.
He was baptised on his deathbed even thoo he belived in christ from long ago before he became the emperor.
get ur facts rit ya habibi.
Yes perhaps it stopped the age of the martyrs but it ushered in the DARK AGES!!!
and as for the other statements:
HE WAS BAPTISED ON HIS DEATHBED??? NOW THAT IS CONVICTION FOR A MAN THAT USED CHRISTIANITY TO COMPLETELY REFORM HIS EMPIRE...
I am sorry...But I recognize propaganda quite easily these days and that is definately propaganda!!!
Yes perhaps it stopped the age of the martyrs but it ushered in the DARK AGES!!!
what r u talking about. that wasn't around that time or even in his rule.
am not convecting any one. that is what happend. he ended the age of martyrs ISN'T that good enough.
he reformed his empire for the better....that's not good enough.....
i don't care what praopaganda he did or not........he deserves respect
-->> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml
Is there any reason you post irrelevant material and then remove it? Also, I fail to see how Constantine plays any role in the validity of Christianity. He had no say in the founding of the faith. He had no say in canonizing the New Testament. He had no say in what was considered dogmatic regarding the Faith. He was just an emperor who legalized Christianity throughout the empire. Big whoop. The Faith has not changed as a result of this action.
why do Catholics celebrate Christmas and Easter (it is supposed to be called Ressurrection Feast...remember?) at different times? The reason for this is because the pagans at the time of Constantine celebrated similar festivals on those dates.
no genuius. we have diffrent dates because we use diffrent calendars.
[quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75958#msg75958 date=1187886704] Sounds like what many Egyptians would say about late president Abdel Nasser; who by the way persecuted many Egyptians who had issue with his policies. Or what many Americans would say about George W Bush who is litterally bankrupting this country and selling it to the Godless Communist Chinese!
well that was before abdelnaser becaem a freind with Pope Kerrolos. and Bush, what can u do....the church is not part of political matters...rit...
we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth.
The word sect can be used in several ways and may be applied to pretty much any religious group, including Catholicism.
But may I ask what you mean by legitimate? The Roman Catholic Church is not part of the Body of Christ, and its apostolic succession was (if one is to believe the Fathers) forfeited when its bishops separated themselves from the Church. Nor does it hold fully to Apostolic teaching, much of which has been lost, distorted or added to. So in what way is the Catholic Church legitimate, and other schismatic/heretical groups are illegitimate?
Personally I would see such lables as misleading. As we proclaim in the Creed, there is only one legitimate Church (how Her borders are defined is another matter); you're either in or out.
Naturally, some are further from the truth than others, but I cannot see how you can differentiate between them by using words like 'legitimate' and 'illegitimate.'
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5678.msg75952#msg75952 date=1187884580]
we recognise them as Legitimate Apostolic church, not a sect, not the full truth...... Orthodoxy IS the truth.
The word sect can be used in several ways and may be applied to pretty much any religious group, including Catholicism.
But may I ask what you mean by legitimate? The Roman Catholic Church is not part of the Body of Christ, and its apostolic succession was (if one is to believe the Fathers) forfeited when it's bishops separated themselves from the Church. Nor does it hold fully to Apostolic teaching, much of which has been lost, distorted or added to. So in what way is the Catholic Church legitimate, and other schismatic/heretical groups are illegitimate?
Personally I would see such lables as misleading. As we proclaim in the Creed, there is only one legitimate Church (how Her borders are defined is another matter); you're either in or out.
Naturally, some are further from the truth than others, but I cannot see how you can differentiate between them by using words like 'legitimate' and 'illegitimate.'
thanks for correcting.
[quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75957#msg75957 date=1187886503]
why do Catholics celebrate Christmas and Easter (it is supposed to be called Ressurrection Feast...remember?) at different times? The reason for this is because the pagans at the time of Constantine celebrated similar festivals on those dates.
no genuius. we have diffrent dates because we use diffrent calendars.
[quote author=elepti link=topic=5678.msg75958#msg75958 date=1187886704] Sounds like what many Egyptians would say about late president Abdel Nasser; who by the way persecuted many Egyptians who had issue with his policies. Or what many Americans would say about George W Bush who is litterally bankrupting this country and selling it to the Godless Communist Chinese!
well that was before abdelnaser becaem a freind with Pope Kerrolos. and Bush, what can u do....the church is not part of political matters...rit...
Yes the Catholics use a different calendar only because their calendar is based on a pagan calendar.