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Agios ictin?
Is "agios ictin o pateer" the same as "o kirios metaso"?
Comments
Actually, O Kirios Meta sou is the ending of the hymn "Shere Theotoke" which is chanted right before Agios Estin. Usually Shere is not chanted, so instead people continue with its ending "O Kirios" after chanting Ekesmaroout.
even thoo Oon shere is a beautiful lhn.. :D
The Lord, the Father, Who speaks in Heavenly truth, Who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
Honored is the Father, Who rejoices because of our Humility, the Heavenly Truth, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Shepherd, Who speaks for the sake of our tribulations, the heavenly cross, with the Holy Spirit.
What does this verse above mean?
Honored is the Father, Who shines over our tribulations, with the heavenly light, with the Holy Spirit.
Hail to the ever-existent, with the Father who rejoices in our humility, and the heavenly truth, with the Holy Spirit.
I think i get the last verse: THe ever-existent is Jesus Christ, we Hail Him with the Father, who rejoices in our humility, but what is the heavenly Truth??
Thanks guys
Can someone explain the words these verses?
The Lord, the Father, Who speaks in Heavenly truth, Who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
Honored is the Father, Who rejoices because of our Humility, the Heavenly Truth, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Shepherd, Who speaks for the sake of our tribulations, the heavenly cross, with the Holy Spirit.
What does this verse above mean?
Honored is the Father, Who shines over our tribulations, with the heavenly light, with the Holy Spirit.
Hail to the ever-existent, with the Father who rejoices in our humility, and the heavenly truth, with the Holy Spirit.
I think i get the last verse: THe ever-existent is Jesus Christ, we Hail Him with the Father, who rejoices in our humility, but what is the heavenly Truth??
well first you have to consider that this is a greek hymn. the english and arabic translation are always hard languages to translate into especially when the hymn is greek.
but i think the whole idea here is what's the "Heavenly Truth"
i think the heavenly truth is just our faith. like as it says in St. John's:
John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
so i guess that's the heavenly truth.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5598.msg74802#msg74802 date=1185266232]
Can someone explain the words these verses?
The Lord, the Father, Who speaks in Heavenly truth, Who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
Honored is the Father, Who rejoices because of our Humility, the Heavenly Truth, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Shepherd, Who speaks for the sake of our tribulations, the heavenly cross, with the Holy Spirit.
What does this verse above mean?
Honored is the Father, Who shines over our tribulations, with the heavenly light, with the Holy Spirit.
Hail to the ever-existent, with the Father who rejoices in our humility, and the heavenly truth, with the Holy Spirit.
I think i get the last verse: THe ever-existent is Jesus Christ, we Hail Him with the Father, who rejoices in our humility, but what is the heavenly Truth??
well first you have to consider that this is a greek hymn. the english and arabic translation are always hard languages to translate into especially when the hymn is greek.
but i think the whole idea here is what's the "Heavenly Truth"
i think the heavenly truth is just our faith. like as it says in St. John's:
John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
so i guess that's the heavenly truth.
No Mina,
This is a song that praises the Holy Trinity: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
Look:
The Lord, the Father, Who speaks in Heavenly truth, Who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father, who speaks in Heavenly Truth (= Jesus Christ) who took the form of our humilty, with the Holy Spirit. Jesus Said He is the "Truth, the way, and the Life".
Honored is the Father, Who rejoices because of our Humility (which was glorified in Jesus Christ, who IS the heavenly Truth), the Heavenly Truth, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Shepherd, Who speaks for the sake of our tribulations (He Spoke Through Jesus Christ who did the Will of the Father), the heavenly cross, with the Holy Spirit. (I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE HEAVENLY CROSS PART - that's all.
Don't forget, Vassilios IS a greek name!! I just don't understand the heavenly cross part!!
Thanks
No Mina,
This is a song that praises the Holy Trinity: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
Look:
The Lord, the Father, Who speaks in Heavenly truth, Who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father, who speaks in Heavenly Truth (= Jesus Christ) who took the form of our humilty, with the Holy Spirit. Jesus Said He is the "Truth, the way, and the Life".
Honored is the Father, Who rejoices because of our Humility (which was glorified in Jesus Christ, who IS the heavenly Truth), the Heavenly Truth, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Shepherd, Who speaks for the sake of our tribulations (He Spoke Through Jesus Christ who did the Will of the Father), the heavenly cross, with the Holy Spirit. (I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE HEAVENLY CROSS PART - that's all.
Don't forget, Vassilios IS a greek name!! I just don't understand the heavenly cross part!!
first.....if you know the answer. than why in the world are you asking.......
Second....yes it's the praise of the trinity. WHAT'S WRONG OF INCLUDING WHAT THE TRINITY PROVIDED for us.
THIRd, it doesn't refer to Christ because the are many Heavely things included in the hymn. why does this one have to do with Jesus.
Fourth....yes i know that Vassilios is a greek name....but what does that have to do with it
?!!!!!!!!!!!!
fifth...the heavenly cross refers to our salvation taht was through the cross. and since the cross was a shamful punishment....our God made it heavenly....somthing pure and a sign of salvation.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5598.msg74811#msg74811 date=1185286071]
No Mina,
This is a song that praises the Holy Trinity: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
Look:
The Lord, the Father, Who speaks in Heavenly truth, Who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father, who speaks in Heavenly Truth (= Jesus Christ) who took the form of our humilty, with the Holy Spirit. Jesus Said He is the "Truth, the way, and the Life".
Honored is the Father, Who rejoices because of our Humility (which was glorified in Jesus Christ, who IS the heavenly Truth), the Heavenly Truth, with the Holy Spirit.
The Father is the Shepherd, Who speaks for the sake of our tribulations (He Spoke Through Jesus Christ who did the Will of the Father), the heavenly cross, with the Holy Spirit. (I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THE HEAVENLY CROSS PART - that's all.
Don't forget, Vassilios IS a greek name!! I just don't understand the heavenly cross part!!
first.....if you know the answer. in in the world are you asking.......
Second....yes it's the praise of the trinity. WHAT WHAT'S WRONG OF INCLUDING WHAT THE TRINITY PROVIDED for us.
THIRd, it doesn't refer to Christ because the are many Heavely things included in the hymn. why does this one have to do with Jesus.
Fourth....yes i know that Vassilios is a greek name....but what does that have to do with it
?!!!!!!!!!!!!
fifth...the heavenly cross refers to our salvation taht was through the cross. and since the cross was a shamful punishment....our God made it heavenly....somthing pure and a sign on salvation.
I was asking about the heavenly cross.
THe rest of the verses I understood, except that one. I don't think you are correct Mina. Please can you not answer this until someone else tries instead of you??
Thanks man!! :)
God bless,
I think i get the last verse: THe ever-existent is Jesus Christ, we Hail Him with the Father, who rejoices in our humility, but what is [glow=red,2,300]the heavenly Truth[/glow]??
so what' have u asked for again.
and when u know that i am wrong.....u can stop me from answering.
[quote author=QT_PA_2T link=topic=5598.msg74802#msg74802 date=1185266232]
I think i get the last verse: THe ever-existent is Jesus Christ, we Hail Him with the Father, who rejoices in our humility, but what is [glow=red,2,300]the heavenly Truth[/glow]??
I have to agree with Mina that I think this song has nothing to do with Jesus. But I differ from both Mina and QT_PA_2T in saying that this song is rather praising the Holy Spirit because that is the one thing that makes us different than the rest of the Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hinduists, and all of the other religions of this world. Through the Holy Spirit, we receive the heavenly truth. Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit and therefore, this is appropriate to say. Also, I was thinking about the passage "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ," and I have to say that this whole song praises the Holy Spirit for being sent to us by Jesus Christ. Also, the heavenly cross theory that Mina stated I would have to agree with because only robbers and very bad criminals were hung on a cross.
1) The cross was a sign of humiliation.
The cross is a sign of blessing.
2) The cross was the death of sinners.
The cross is the death of the apostles and martyrs.
3) The cross was a sign of destruction.
The cross was symbolized by the Passover.
No problem, Mina. But I am just wondering how the topic shifted from [coptic]`Agioc ictin[/coptic] to this song?
yes. he's right. the part below listed by Vassilios is the translation of O Kerios metaso.
The meaning, thanks to the translation given, is very clear. We are praising the Holy Trinity.
WHat I just don't understand is this:
Why does the hymn start with "O Kerios Meta sou?" (the Lord is with you), and then we go directly into praising the Trinity: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Thanks
Guys,
The meaning, thanks to the translation given, is very clear. We are praising the Holy Trinity.
WHat I just don't understand is this:
Why does the hymn start with "O Kurios Meta sou?" (the Lord is with you), and then we go directly into praising the Trinity: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Thanks
becasue [coptic]`O Kurioc ...[/coptic] is the continuation of [coptic](on) <ere :e`otoke[/coptic] which is a continuation of [coptic]`K`cmarwout [/coptic]where the last word, [coptic]`mmon[/coptic], is the beginning of the hymn [coptic]<ere :e`otoke[/coptic].
+Pray for me+
Hi, i dont know if its mentioned in this thread but when do we sing shere theotoke. Thanks.
+Pray for me+
is it was said, it's a praise for the Trinity. So basicly almost all glorifications/tamageed and annual....
GB
Tony
I, personally, do not see the point in arguing about the lyrics when the greek gramar itself does not make sense.
GB
Tony
well actually that is true to. i know there is one paragraph that is so confusing that HGB Rafael refuses to say.
[quote author=Amoussa01 link=topic=5598.msg92098#msg92098 date=1214976187]
I, personally, do not see the point in arguing about the lyrics when the greek gramar itself does not make sense.
GB
Tony
well actually that is true to. i know there is one paragraph that is so confusing that HGB Rafael refuses to say.
Really which paragraph is that??
1) Agios Yestin --> Sanity Check - ok
2) Zekeos Yestin --> Sanity Check --> makes perfect sense
3) Ipanos --> a tad bit confusing? but it could make sense
4) Kirios Yestin --> Makes perfect sense
5) Nimios --> a tad bit confusing?? but it could make sense?
6) Pimenos --> is it this one? But i think it would make sense if you added a few adverbs..
7) Timios --> makes sense
8) Shere Yestin --> makes sense
So, Mina - which one does Anba Raphael refuse to say?
I, personally, do not see the point in arguing about the lyrics when the greek gramar itself does not make sense.
GB
Tony
That's so true Tony. I was thinking about this issue for ages. I was singing a hymn and i read the translation of it before singing it. During the singing , i forgot the translation (i.e. the meaning).. at the end, the words in Coptic were so abstract to me. It feels odd singing/praying in a language that we do not understand.
The Lord, the Father, who speaks in Heavenly truth, who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
الرب الآب المتكلم بالحق السمائى الذى شابهنا فى اتضاعنا والروح القدس.
[coptic]Kurioc ictin@ `o Patyr laleucin@ ;epen;ebi`o@ matouc `n`epouranion@ tou `pneuma tou `agiou. [/coptic]
The Lord, the Father, who speaks in Heavenly truth, who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
الرب الآب المتكلم بالحق السمائى الذى شابهنا فى اتضاعنا والروح القدس.
Thanks Mina,
I thought about that.. its the Logos that took our form.. not the Father, but if u add that in, it doesn't sound nice.
Anyway, this is amazing that Anba Raphael doesn't say that verse. He's very wise. I like that. I find this bishop a blessing Mina. I mean, look at what he's teaching us: "DO NOT SAY ANYTHING HAPHAZARDLY WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING IT!".
You see?? That's why singing in Coptic scares me sometimes. I stop and I ask myself "QT, did u really understand what u just sang?"
But does he sing the rest of it??
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5598.msg92157#msg92157 date=1215016228]
[coptic]Kurioc ictin@ `o Patyr laleucin@ ;epen;ebi`o@ matouc `n`epouranion@ tou `pneuma tou `agiou. [/coptic]
The Lord, the Father, who speaks in Heavenly truth, who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
الرب الآب المتكلم بالحق السمائى الذى شابهنا فى اتضاعنا والروح القدس.
Thanks Mina,
I thought about that.. its the Logos that took our form.. not the Father, but if u add that in, it doesn't sound nice.
Anyway, this is amazing that Anba Raphael doesn't say that verse. He's very wise. I like that. I find this bishop a blessing Mina. I mean, look at what he's teaching us: "DO NOT SAY ANYTHING HAPHAZARDLY WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING IT!".
You see?? That's why singing in Coptic scares me sometimes. I stop and I ask myself "QT, did u really understand what u just sang?"
But does he sing the rest of it??
actually am not sure 100% of this but i think htis is the part.
about HG, he is a really nice person. great sermons and does great service towords alhan and youth in egypt inhis churches in egypt.
Anyway, this is amazing that Anba Raphael doesn't say that verse. He's very wise. I like that. I find this bishop a blessing Mina. I mean, look at what he's teaching us: "DO NOT SAY ANYTHING HAPHAZARDLY WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING IT!".
You see?? That's why singing in Coptic scares me sometimes. I stop and I ask myself "QT, did u really understand what u just sang?"
Well, if one would read the translation first, one wouldn't encounter the problem, assuming he/she has enough theological knowledge and insight to see if there was something wrong.
[quote author=minagir link=topic=5598.msg92157#msg92157 date=1215016228]
[coptic]Kurioc ictin@ `o Patyr laleucin@ ;epen;ebi`o@ matouc `n`epouranion@ tou `pneuma tou `agiou. [/coptic]
The Lord, the Father, who speaks in Heavenly truth, who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
الرب الآب المتكلم بالحق السمائى الذى شابهنا فى اتضاعنا والروح القدس.
I understand how it's wrong to say that the father took the form of our humility, but I think if you think about it this verse might be correct
The Lord, The father, who speaks in heavenly truth (the father speaks the word, the logos) who took the form of our humility, with the Holy Spirit.
so the part in bold would apply to the heavenly truth which could mean the word/logos and that would make the difference
I don't have sufficient knowledge of the greek language to know if it can be understood this way, but I was just sharing a thought hoping to be corrected if I'm wrong...
God Bless
Please pray for me