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Two Coptic Popes at ONCE?????

gregorytheSinnergregorytheSinner
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
So I was just skimming the Coptic Pope List at Wikipedia.org, when I read to articles about Pope John VII being replaced by Pope Gabriel III, with the consent and push of some bishops, and after the latter's death, being returned to his throne.  I searched the Synaxarium, looking for any helpful info, but to no avail.  Can anyone help with this?
thanks

Comments

  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=gregorytheSinner link=topic=5249.msg70428#msg70428 date=1177605375]
    So I was just skimming the Coptic Pope List at Wikipedia.org, when I read to articles about Pope John VII being replaced by Pope Gabriel III, with the consent and push of some bishops, and after the latter's death, being returned to his throne.  I searched the Synaxarium, looking for any helpful info, but to no avail.  Can anyone help with this?
    thanks


    the list on wikipedia is according to the other church not our coptic church. actually for somtimes they included taht in the web page saying that these names r not full approved by the coptic church. that's only for answering wikipedia,
    now for the 2 popes in the same time, i never heard about it. may be some can include more info!!!
  • HolmesHolmes
    [coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]

    Gregory,

    It has to do with the Greek presence in Egypt.  As you may be aware, in around 451 AD, as a result of the Council of Chalcedon, there was a split between the OO and the EO.  Now, I believe during this time, the EO were trying to stir up trouble in Alexandria and trying to get rid of St. Dioscorus, and with the help of the Emperor (I believe), they set up another Patriarch (known by the Copts as the Greek Melikite Patriarch).  I don't know all the details, but if you get your hands on Iris Habib's book 'History of the Copts', you may find out more information.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=5249.msg70431#msg70431 date=1177605756]
    [coptic]+ Pi`<rictoc aftonf>[/coptic]

    Gregory,

    It has to do with the Greek presence in Egypt.  As you may be aware, in around 451 AD, as a result of the Council of Chalcedon, there was a split between the OO and the EO.  Now, I believe during this time, the EO were trying to stir up trouble in Alexandria and trying to get rid of St. Dioscorus, and with the help of the Emperor (I believe), they set up another Patriarch (known by the Copts as the Greek Melikite Patriarch).  I don't know all the details, but if you get your hands on Iris Habib's book 'History of the Copts', you may find out more information.


    that can be a good reason for this. same as when they put a pope instead of St. Athansius when he was exiled.
  • gregorytheSinnergregorytheSinner
    That could be it, but whats confusing me is the simple fact that at that time the OO and the EO were both completely seperate and independant churches, each doing it's own thing, and they weren't competing for the Throne of Alexandria, either.  Thus, to prove this each church during that period of time  (1261 - 1293) had the following Patriarchs:
    Coptic Orthodox Church
    John VII --> Gabriel III --> John VII

    Greek Orhodox Church
    Gregory I --> Nicholas II --> Athansius III

    This is different from the situation at the time of Pope Athanasius when the Coptic Church was the only church in Egypt, and there was no other "Branch of Christanity".  His exile was at the hands of the Arians, who  put their own Bishop as Pope during his exile.

    So this leaves me even more confused...
  • Anglican
    Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

    If we had waited until 4 May and read the Synaxarium for Barmoudah 26, we would get the answer to the question:

    [2] The Departure of Pope Youannis VII, 78th. Patriarch.
    _________________________________________________________________________________
    On this day also, of the year 1009 A.M. (April 21st, 1293 A.D.), Pope Youannis VII, 78th Patriarch, departed. After the lay leaders of Cairo had nominated Pope Gabriel III for the Papacy, some of the lay leaders of Egypt agreed to choose Youannis Ebn Abi-Saaid El-Soukary. They threw an altar lot which fell on Gabriel, but Youannis, the above mentioned, along with his supporters, quarreled with Gabriel. Youannis nullified the result of the lot and was enthroned in the 6th. of Tubah 978 A.M. (January 15th., 1262 A.D.), after the departure of Pope Athanasius III, his predecessor.

    He remained on the Patriarchal Chair six years, nine months, and nineteen days, then he was dismissed. Pope Gabriel took over his place from the 24th. of Babah 985 A.M. to the 6th. of Tubah 987 A.M., then he was dismissed. Youannis was reinstated by the order of El-Sultan on the 7th. of Tubah.

    During Pope Youannis' days, in the year 980 A.M., El-Sultan ordered to dig a huge pit and throw the Christians in it, to be burned. He brought the Patriarch and mandated him to pay fifty thousand Dinars, which took two years to collect. Consequently, they released the Christians who suffered much tribulations in his time, and the bishops suffered much afflictions. Pope Gabriel, his predecessor, departed during Pope Youannis second period of heading the church, so he was listed in the list of the Patriarchs before Youannis.

    Pope Youannis remained on the Chair in his second time of heading the church 22 years, 3 months, and 19 days, and departed in peace in the 26th. of Baramoudah 1009 A.M. He was buried in the gardens of El-Nastour monastery.

    His prayers be with us and Glory be to our God forever. Amen.

    The wikipedia entries seem hopeless, one listing Paope Garbriel's dates as 851-858 - all of which shows why it can't be relied upon.

    Anyone with more information is most welcome to aid our enlightenment.

    In Christ,

    John
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