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who is Sarkis?
who is Sarkis? he is mentioned in the last quarter in aripsalin in the midnight praises. ??? ???
Comments
There is an Armenian martyr called St. Sarkis who lived during the 4th century. But I doubt this is the same person.
The hymn is said in alphabetical order making it easier for blind muallims to memorize.
GBU
sandra
GBU
sandra
The hymn is said in alphabetical order making it easier for blind muallims to memorize.
Thats the rule of a Psali.
[quote author=sandrahanna link=topic=5030.msg68063#msg68063 date=1172617260]
I am pretty sure its a person cuz when anba yousiff did tasbeha with us once and we were saying the last part he said his name instead of sarkis.
Sirkis is the person who wrote this and also who wrote the romi parts that are said in Kiahk vespers tasbeha. As for HGB Youssef replacing Sarkis' name by his, than that's weird because there is no point. Except maybe he's looking at the meaning or may be that's a rite in the monastery his grace came from.
GBU
sandra
its just like wat sarkis wanted(people mentioning his name everytime they say it) i think anba yousiff and everyone of us can do that, its nothing bad..ur just saing and also your poor servant...(we're all servants of God so its not only sarkis) make ..(or me) without condamnation, that..(I) may join all those and say... i had a talk about this with my pre servant teacher and thats exactly what he said.
GBU
sandra
you're right. but sometimes you just have to leave stuff as it is. don't think that our church father just got the psali and put in our psalmody just for the fun of it. am sure they took a lot of time studing this before including it. also i think the only reason that HG did this is may be becasue he is a Bishop. Sarkis was a priest, so i guess he thought that he is higher in rank, higher in responsebility, so the highest rank name should be there!!!. wait, if so, that can mean HH should replace his name all the time......i guess we can check from a tasbeha where HH was.
we're all servants..but if you can find out if its like for priests and stuff or ranks higher than a priest let me know!
GBU
sandra
priests aren't the only servants!
we're all servants..but if you can find out if its like for priests and stuff or ranks higher than a priest let me know!
well ur only way of doing is asking HG. becasue i really don't see anyother way to define that.
/
mahraeel
plzz p4m sister in Christ
that is soo kool soo.. ur telin me i cna say mi name. not tht i wil but stul? cool....!!!!
the bishop is not in the same rank as me and u.
[quote author=mahraeel link=topic=5030.msg76817#msg76817 date=1189641584]
that is soo kool soo.. ur telin me i cna say mi name. not tht i wil but stul? cool....!!!!
the bishop is not in the same rank as me and u.
That is not necessarily true that you have to be a bishop to change the name of "poor servant (...)". You very well can change the name of Sarkis to your name because there is no such thing as a better or higher servant. We are equal in rank in God's eyes and as Sandra said, we can apply this in our lives as well. The reason why nobody changes this is because Sarkis is the author who wrote [coptic]Ari'alin[/coptic] and this was a "prayer", so to speak, to God, a personal confession. Anybody can change Sarkis's name because Sarkis was only human, as are we. Spiritual rank does not matter because no matter what rank you are, you are a servant. Also, it is easy to tell that this is somewhat of a confession because the rest of the same verse says, "Make him without condemnation, that we may join all those and say, Praise Him and exalt Him above all." The words "Make him without condemnation" indicates one of the two things:
1) This last verse is a personal confession
or
2) He confessed right before writing [coptic]Ari'alin[/coptic]
/
mahareel
plzz p4m sisetr in Christ
That is not necessarily true that you have to be a bishop to change the name of "poor servant (...)". You very well can change the name of Sarkis to your name because there is no such thing as a better or higher servant. We are equal in rank in God's eyes and as Sandra said, we can apply this in our lives as well. The reason why nobody changes this is because Sarkis is the author who wrote [coptic]Ari'alin[/coptic] and this was a "prayer", so to speak, to God, a personal confession. Anybody can change Sarkis's name because Sarkis was only human, as are we. Spiritual rank does not matter because no matter what rank you are, you are a servant.
ranks of clergy members have their own respect ya habibi. also Sarkis was actualy a hegumen. becasue he wrote the hymn, he deserves to be included in it deserving respect. the part says:
And also Your poor servant Sarkis, make him without condemnation, that he may join all those and say, Praise Him and exalt Him above all.
he didn't only include himself but "all those" to. now why would u put ur name.... would it make diffrence...i don't think soo
[quote author=bballdude23 link=topic=5030.msg76822#msg76822 date=1189645592]
That is not necessarily true that you have to be a bishop to change the name of "poor servant (...)". You very well can change the name of Sarkis to your name because there is no such thing as a better or higher servant. We are equal in rank in God's eyes and as Sandra said, we can apply this in our lives as well. The reason why nobody changes this is because Sarkis is the author who wrote [coptic]Ari'alin[/coptic] and this was a "prayer", so to speak, to God, a personal confession. Anybody can change Sarkis's name because Sarkis was only human, as are we. Spiritual rank does not matter because no matter what rank you are, you are a servant.
ranks of clergy members have their own respect ya habibi. also Sarkis was actualy a hegumen. becasue he wrote the hymn, he deserves to be included in it deserving respect. the part says:
And also Your poor servant Sarkis, make him without condemnation, that he may join all those and say, Praise Him and exalt Him above all.
he didn't only include himself but "all those" to. now why would u put ur name.... would it make diffrence...i don't think soo
I agree that you say that each clergy member has their owm respect. But at that part, he referred himself as a servant, something of which us and him share in common and of course I agree with you about each rank deserves respect. Referring himself as a servant makes us allowed to substitute his name. Also, the last half says, "That he may join all those and say, Praise Him and exalt Him above all." That means that he is thankful in everything that God has done for him. This doesn't express our need for forgiveness and remission of sins. This just says that we are thankful for the One who made us.
I agree that you say that each clergy member has their owm respect. But at that part, he referred himself as a servant, something of which us and him share in common and of course I agree with you about each rank deserves respect. Referring himself as a servant makes us allowed to substitute his name. Also, the last half says, "That he may join all those and say, Praise Him and exalt Him above all." That means that he is thankful in everything that God has done for him. This doesn't express our need for forgiveness and remission of sins. This just says that we are thankful for the One who made us.
will he's asking to be made without condemnation......for him.
and again...i said.....he wrote the hymn, he deserves the respect and the credit.
[quote author=bballdude23 link=topic=5030.msg76826#msg76826 date=1189647190]
I agree that you say that each clergy member has their owm respect. But at that part, he referred himself as a servant, something of which us and him share in common and of course I agree with you about each rank deserves respect. Referring himself as a servant makes us allowed to substitute his name. Also, the last half says, "That he may join all those and say, Praise Him and exalt Him above all." That means that he is thankful in everything that God has done for him. This doesn't express our need for forgiveness and remission of sins. This just says that we are thankful for the One who made us.
[quote author=sandrahanna link=topic=5030.msg68105#msg68105 date=1172711436]
its just like wat sarkis wanted(people mentioning his name everytime they say it) i think anba yousiff and everyone of us can do that, its nothing bad..ur just saing and also your poor servant...(we're all servants of God so its not only sarkis) make ..(or me) without condamnation, that..(I) may join all those and say... i had a talk about this with my pre servant teacher and thats exactly what he said.
GBU
sandra
will he's asking to be made without condemnation......for him.
and again...i said.....he wrote the hymn, he deserves the respect and the credit.
Mina, he deserves respect and credit, which he receives from having his name automatically in the original transcript of the hymns (Tasbeha books) which most people do not change whatever is inside of it. So usually if it says Sarkis, then most people in Tasbeha say Sarkis.
well if you would want your name in a psali, that would be a weird situtation but anyways, in church you dont pray because of a bishop, priest or any body, its just you and God
Then that means that it should not matter whose name is in the Psalia. It can be any servant of the True and Most High God.
That does not mean that you cannot replace his name by your own. I heard a lot of times people in tasbeha would repeat the last verse and say something like the following: Maybe that is the fittest solution ;)
I heard Anba Rafa'el answering a question on this "Sarkis issue", whether we should not say his name and replace it by our own. Bottom line is that we need to respect his wish for being remembered and prayed for in every single midnight praise.
That does not mean that you cannot replace his name by your own. I heard a lot of times people in tasbeha would repeat the last verse and say something like the following: Maybe that is the fittest solution ;)
Hos Erof,
So, then, it should be okay to have your name in the Psalia. I am just wondering, if you say it, then will anything bad happen?
And we also your poor servants, make us without condemnation that we may join all those and say...
so yea lol just thought id share
You say both verses, first the one of Cantor Sarkis (in honour of the author of the hymn), then you ask forgiveness for yourself and the ones standing in the midnight praise. No, of course not. But it's just a matter of respect and honour to Muallim Sarkis.
I wouldnt really use my own name, especially if there's a group of peope praying.
The correct thing would be to follow what was written in the previous post by Tishori (or my previous post, which is similair)
i agree with everyone saying its there to respect and pray for the muallim and then to pray for those present in the tasbeha.