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jesus servant

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ÕáæÇ ãä ÃÌá ÖÚÝì ßËíÑÇð [/right]

Abanoub88

Could you possible post again in English? If its not trouble. Thanks in advance.

In Brotherhood,
- Chris

Unknown

[quote author=Banoub link=board=1;threadid=283;start=0#msg2260 date=1085358756]
Could you possible post again in English? If its not trouble. Thanks in advance.

In Brotherhood,
- Chris

plzzz?

Shamas

Well, I translate it for you. please rember that I'm english learner and if you have any comments I'll be happy. there is another topic in arabic I'll transilate it as soon as possibe
Pray for me

The translation:
Miracle in the sacrament of thanksgiving about the fact of conversion

We believe that after the calling of the holy sprit on the holy bread (Korban) the bread and wine secretly converted to be the Christ’s holy body and holy blood. Thus, the bread and wine we look at are not simple bread and wine but they are body and blood of The Lord himself but appeare like the bread and the wine. And we believe that our Lord Jesus Christ attend this service not as a symbol or imagery but he really attend the service. This is the faith of our orthodox church in the east and west since the beginning because the holy apostles have given this faith from the Lord of glory (Mt 26:26,27). And they also give this faith to their successors Bishops, Priests and all believers all over the globe. This sacrament still exercised in all churches on this faith from now to the end.
This is our orthodox church’s faith about this sacrament and this is supported by a lot of miracles where Lord told us that he attend this service really not as symbol.


The miracle
There was a devout priest in Germany his name is “Bilagios”. He has a lot of love, respect and awesome toward the mother of God.
The enemy of the good live had envy on him and sent him disturbing thoughts about the body and blood of the Lord. So, he said inside himself” how can the bread convert to be the body of the Christ and the wine to be his blood? The virgin gave us one child he voluntarily accepted the passion as his choice then he died, buried and resurrected once. Then, how the bread become body every day and also the wine become blood? Does he suffer again?
This thoughts were very painful for this simple priest and he was unable to tell anybody about his thoughts. So, he went to the Virgin asking her intercessions to teach him hoe this happens. He repeated that ,of course, a lot of times with many many tears .
One day, he was about finishing the Liturgy when he said “Most of all, the pure, full of glory, ever-virgin, holy Theotokos, Saint Mary, who in truth, gave birth to God the Logos---etc”
The holy bread and the precious blood disappeared. So, he hugely scared and wept bitterly and he thought that this is a punish for his doubt and he start asking the intercessions of the mother of the Lord. She appeared to him and said” This is God the Logos became man suffered and died on the cross as a man for saving the world and now, because he is kind, he condescend and give himself as food and drink not like flesh and blood to help the believers.
The priest fell on his knee in front of the holy table and said: “ I believe Lord and confess that you are the son of the living God who born from ever-virgin. And as you made me worthy to see your holy body please let me worth, by intercessions of the virgin saint Mary, to partake you not like baby but like bread and wine as I partake before.
Then he stood and saw The holy body and precious blood in their place and partook with awesome and faith. He was happy and he grew in the holy jealous and devotions and lived good live. Then he slept in the Lord Jesus Christ who has the glory for ever and ever amen.
Queted from the book “Miracles of the holy scarify” by H. Luka El-Antoony
Pray for may weakness a lot

Boricua_Orthodox

[glow=red,2,300]Happy Pentecost[/glow] Jesus Servant!!!!!

[pre][/pre] I dont know if Jesus Servant was questioning the Holy Eucharist or not but i can share a bit of what the Holy Bible and Holy Fathers say about the Eucharist. Mind u its not an extensive reply ...I am only 3 yr old Orthodox (waaaaaah).

The Old Testament has types ( type= a historical event that points to a deeper reality) of the Holy Eucharist. For example we a great part of the Fall of Adam was the eating of the forbidden fruit of the tree: Romans 6
"23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord...NIV."

Adam brought death into the world but thru the Tree of the Cross all who are baptized and believe in HIM (Jesus Christ) are made righteous : "Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come." Also :"1 Corinthians 15
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. " St Maximus the Confessor (+662 A.D.) tell us:
"As man I deliberately trangressed the divine commandment...Because of this God became perfect man, taking on everything that belongs to human nature except sin:Hebrews 4:15," For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathise with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin....NKJV." Thus Jesus Christ is the Second Adam who brings us to new life . He is our High priest.

Our Lord is also the ultimate sacrifice. We find in Exodus 12:21-23 the Blood of the Lamb protecting the Hebrews from the plague. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God:

Revelation 5:12
"Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing..."

Revelation 7:14
"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We also see a" type" of the Holy Euchar:st iwhen the Lord Christ Himself reveals to us in John 6:32 :

" 32Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven... NKJV."

Now we are getting into the meat and potatoes ( 'bout time huh...lol) whe we hear the Lord Himself telling us that His Body and Blood is essential for our salvation becuase it is Christ Himself given:

53 Then Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily I say unto you, unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth My flesh and drinketh My blood hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day...John 6:53-54."

Now many may say that Jesus Christ was speaking symbolically here. But the above quotation (53-54) our Lord said as a response to the Jews who took it LITERALLY:

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

Our Lord jesus when he usually spoke in parables would then explain what He meant like in Matthew 13:18-23 the parable of the good and bad seeds. Our Lord didn't clarify it then. He continued saying we must eat of His Body and drink of His Blood (6:53-54).

I will continue this in the next post.

Boricua_Orthodox

Back again:

I know this post is rather long but Our Lord Jesus Christ is not shallow! We are talking about our salvation in Christ Jesus and how we participate in His Life! Lets continue.

We are going to go a bit into the language here . The Bible of the early Church and of the Orthodox Church ( same church... ha ha) is the Septuagint (LXX) which was in Greek. Thus St John uses the word"sarx" (verse 53) which means flesh (literally) not "soma" which can be interpreted allegorically as "Body". Thus the Gospel here tell us the sacramental Nature of His Flesh and Blood!.

Now for many this would seem just one interpretation out of many...an innovation invented by corrupted "Church men". But this is further from the truth! Since the beginning of Christianity The Eucharist has been believed to be the actual Flesh and Blood of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ . Lets look at a second century (fresh out of the Apostolic age) Father, St Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165):

"For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh...http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-46.htm#P3593_620967.";

The is from his famous work "The Apology of Justin" paragraph 65-67.

This also complements what St Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:27-30::

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood[1] of the Lord. 28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner[2] eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's[3] body. 30For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep...NKJV."

Here we see St Paul warning his followers not to partake of the Holy Eucharist in an unholy manner! There were people sick even dead becuase of it! How can a "symbol" do that unless it is literally as Our Lord meant it to be : His Flesh and His Blood!

Last installment in the next post...same bat time, same bat channel...lol

Boricua_Orthodox

Oooookaaay!!!! I am Baaackkkk!!lol..

I will finish with 2 passages one from the Gospel of St Lukeand the other from the Book of Acts.

In Luke 24:13-35 we see our Lord Jesus Christ walking with 2 men after His Resurrection. They don't recognize Him but He shares the Gospel with them and then breaks BREAD with them and this is when they realize He is the Lord! Here in Luke we see Liturgy! We see the Scriptures proclaimed and the Eucharist celebrated. Again the central part being the Scriptures especially the Eucharist ( it is when they realized it was Jesus Christ!) and now we shall go to the Book Of Acts.

It is rather short but we see in Acts 2:46, a very brief review on early Christian life with the Holy Apostles and guess what is mentioned especially? Yep! U got it, ahooyah/octee! The Eucharist or the Breaking of the Bread:

"Acts 2
46So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart...NKJV."

I wll mercifully end here ...lol...but i hope this can help some of us understand what the Bible and a few of the Holy fathers say about the Eucharist. I didnt get into "remembrance" nor into the earliest Christian document outside the New Testament: The Didache or "The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles" because my hands hurt..lol.

Please pray for me ...a big sinful gamuz who give all other gamuz a bad name. TY.

Shamas

Hi Boricua_Orthodox

well done, its good job but I have a question about (luke 24:13-35). how do you know it was a liturgy? I beleive it is normal supper.

Peace and love from our Lord be with you

Boricua_Orthodox

[glow=red,2,300]Happy Pentecost!!![/glow]

It will be my pleasure Shamas and i hope you found my 3 explanations edifying!

Concerning Luke 24:13-35 I needed to clarify myself and thank you ahooyah for giving me this opportunity to do this.. :D. What i really mesnt was this passage contains the 2 central parts of the Divine Liturgy: The Liturgy of the Word and of the Eucharist.

In Luke 24:25-27 we see Our Lord Jesus Christ breaking down the Holy Scriptures to Cleopas and his partner concerning the Messianic prophecies. He explained to them how the Old Testament (thats all they had at tha point since the New Testament wasn't written yet..plus they had the Living Word telling it to them anyhow... ;D) told about His first coming starting from Moses and all the Prophets. This
is what is done in the Holy Liturgy; the Holy Scriptures are explained and exclaimed to all.
In Luke 24:30-31 Our Lord Jesus broke bread with them. Now notice what He does: He takes the bread,blesses it, breaks it and then gave it to them. This is the same procedure word for word of the last supper! This is the Liturgy of the Eucharist (the second part of the Mass)!

I hope i clarified it for you my dear ahooyah .Any insights please share them. Shukran very mucho.... ;D.

Shamas

Hi Boricua_Orthodox again

Your speach is logic. also, I returned to father saying about the matter on (www.alkalema.net)(book by Fr. Tadros Yakoob) and some of them confirmed your opinion. Thank you.
I have a small note about (soma) and (sarx). Abouna says in the coptic liturgy (be soma ethouab=the holy body) and congregation replies (Ten ooshet imbic soma ethouab= We worship to the holy body).
I lisintend to opinion from Bishob said that Soma means spritual body, pure body. God rise our bodies from the state of sarx to the state of soma.

peace and love from our Lord be with us all Amen
;)shokran ya Abi el-kades

egyprincess

wats the question?
by the way there are many miracles that are like the one mentioned

sleepymusician

Yea, I'm kinda lost too. Someone please enlighten me. lol. :) ;) :D ;D

sleepy

Shamas

Hi sleepymusician & egyprincess

Jesus servant has sent us story about the Eucharist sacrement. Then Boricua_Orthodox introduce an interesting study about the sacrement from the Bible and father sayings. I asked him about some points in his search and he thanksgivingly answered me. That is all.
Are you ;D or :'( ?
:D :D :D
Bye

sleepymusician

No, I'm perfectly ;D, thanks very much.

sleepy