[quote author=anba bola link=topic=276.msg124451#msg124451 date=1292298605] There are many Coptic sermons in English. For example orthodoxsermons.org has many. Furthermore CYC shows HH Pope Shenouda's Wednesday meetings with English captions (knowing how slow the translation process is, those must take more than 8 hours to do). They also have short parts of HH meetings with English subtitles (so far I've seen maybe over 10 of them, and I only recently started watching it).
Zoxasi, we must act out of love. There are many people who can speak English sufficiently in society, but its much easier for them to understand in Arabic. We must not neglect them, nor should we have an attitude of hate towards them. Guys we must take this in peace and and love. If each person were to take an initiative, this wouldn't be as much of a problem. For example, I wish that we can help along with the translation process of HH sermons.
Also there is no reason to stop Arabic sermons. We can just add more English sermons. I know a very blessed priest who has a congregation with some people who prefer Arabic and others who only speak English. He simply gives a shorter sermon and then translates it into Arabic at the end, and I can tell you that his sermons are more full of spirituality than those twice as long as it.
Let us act in the peace and love of Christ. There is no reason for this to be a cause of anger, although something certainly should be done about this.
Please don't take offense to anything I've said and please pray for me.
Anba Bola,
I agree. As a native English speaker, I have no issue with hearing sermons in both English and Arabic as a majority of the Coptic Orthodox churches have a good section of Arabic speakers. Why should I, as an English speaker, be the only one built up and exhorted by the sermon to the neglect of my brothers and sisters who find sermons in Arabic more helpful? I think that we should bear with one another in love and understand that they need the spiritual food provided by the sermon just as much as I do.
[quote author=anba bola link=topic=276.msg124451#msg124451 date=1292298605] There are many Coptic sermons in English. For example orthodoxsermons.org
Gents,
I'm talking about Arabic sermons in the Church. Yes, arabic sermons on the internet with English subtitles is beyond cruel. But, that's another story.
Look, let's cut a long story short here:
n France, the Minister of the Interior, Dominique de Villepin, considers it “not acceptable” that a third of imams working in France do not speak French. In an interview in Parisen/Aujourd’hui on December 7, the minister observed that, of the 1,200 imams who work in France, 75% are not French and a third do not speak the language. “We must have French imams speaking French,” he declared. “For that, each candidate must be given training which is theological (under the responsibility of existing institutions) and secular (under the responsibility of the universtities),” added the minister, who also intends to organize the ongoing training of already practising imams.
According to Le Figaro of December 7: “The formation of a new generation of imams speaking fluent French and knowing the laws of the Republic is taking shape. The department of Education and the Ministry of the Interior are in agreement: two Parisian universities, probably the Sorbonne and Assas, should be offering, from the start of the academic year 2005 onwards, a new university degree (DU), to acquire a perfect mastery of French law and society. This formation will be strongly recommended to candidates for the imamate, in addition to their religious studies.
“These future imams could notably follow a course at Assas, on the private rights of the person, constitutional rights, public liberty (which includes freedom of worship, opinion and property ownership…). Provided that this option be accepted by the Administration of Paris-II Assas, which is not yet the case.
The DU should also include courses on the history of France, its institutions …These courses could be given at Paris-IV Sorbonne and complete this introduction to French society, destined not only for apprentice imams, but also foreigners or people needing to know these basics in order to work in France.
This university formation will remain optional. But everything has been done to make it attractive. Notably, it will give the status of student and therefore entitlement to residence, as well as rights to social service and grants.
“This option pleased the Paris Mosque, who had suggested such a module last year in order to acclimatize its Algerian students to France. It has already produced a list of sixty students from its theological institute, apparently impatient to get acquainted with the university.
“The president of the UOIF (Union of Islamic Organizations of France), Lhaj Thami Breze, affirmed that he will encourage the students at his institute of Bouteloin (Nièvre) to follow this university course because “an imam can not ignore secularism and its history in France.” But he is already demanding financial aid for journeys to and accomodation in Paris. (…)”
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So how are you different???
How many of your priests (living outside the diaspora) speak the language of the country they reside in? Who could speak for 30 mins (WELL SPOKEN!) about any subject - whether biblical or non biblical.
Its a small matter of curteousy that any preacher (muslim OR Christian) should AT THE VERY LEAST have the decency to tell the sermon in the language of the country they are in!!
And if the congregation speak only Arabic, then what the heck are they doing in Canada/UK/France etc???
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=276.msg124440#msg124440 date=1292271303] I remember one guy I met in Canada (He didnt speak a word of English nor French) and was in Montreal.
He said to me:" Do u know the difference between Canada and Egypt?"
I said "what?"
He said "KETCHUP in plastic containers!"
"That's it. As far as I am concerned, I'm still in Egypt.", he continued. And you wonder why people in the west dont see you as Christians?? Because you remind them of the same arabs that come out of mosques on Fridays.
Zoxsasi,
My friend Paul told me something similar. He came here after the Soviet Union collapsed. He lived in an enclave in NYC and mostly spoke Russian. He thought the only difference between Russia and the USA was the price of vodka. Paul said he believed that everyone in the USA outside his community was a liberal and an atheist. Then he had to work for 6 months in Kentucky. He said he learned that most of Americans were Christians and conservative. He now lives in North Carolina and rarely goes the NYC and only speaks Russian when he talks on the phone to people still living there.
[quote author=Mark423 link=topic=276.msg2138#msg2138 date=1085228760] No actually, very few people know of us. Its hard for people to grasp the idea that we aren’t Muslim due to the fact we are from Egypt. This would be a conversation with your typical person…
Person: Oh cool you’re from Egypt! So are you Muslim? Me: No, I’m orthodox Christian. Person: Oh interesting, but you’re Muslim right? Me: No….. I’m Coptic Person: ohhhh, Coptic, so u celebrate Ramadan? Me: NO, I’m Christian, NOT Muslim. Person: it must be hard having to pray 5 times a day… Me: I wouldn’t know; I’m not Muslim! I’m Coptic orthodox Christian! Person: Oh right, Christian…, well I’ll see you later Mohammed Me: My name is mark Person: yeah that’s what I meant Mustafa, bye
Ugh…. Maybe a little over dramatized, but the American society is just as dense. Or maybe it’s just the people in Brooklyn…
-Mark
thats true. But when someoe asks me like where r u from i say im coptic then he will ask what is coptic?! i say its Christian Egyptian so he wont forget!!
Comments
There are many Coptic sermons in English. For example orthodoxsermons.org has many. Furthermore CYC shows HH Pope Shenouda's Wednesday meetings with English captions (knowing how slow the translation process is, those must take more than 8 hours to do). They also have short parts of HH meetings with English subtitles (so far I've seen maybe over 10 of them, and I only recently started watching it).
Zoxasi, we must act out of love. There are many people who can speak English sufficiently in society, but its much easier for them to understand in Arabic. We must not neglect them, nor should we have an attitude of hate towards them. Guys we must take this in peace and and love. If each person were to take an initiative, this wouldn't be as much of a problem. For example, I wish that we can help along with the translation process of HH sermons.
Also there is no reason to stop Arabic sermons. We can just add more English sermons. I know a very blessed priest who has a congregation with some people who prefer Arabic and others who only speak English. He simply gives a shorter sermon and then translates it into Arabic at the end, and I can tell you that his sermons are more full of spirituality than those twice as long as it.
Let us act in the peace and love of Christ. There is no reason for this to be a cause of anger, although something certainly should be done about this.
Please don't take offense to anything I've said and please pray for me.
Anba Bola,
I agree. As a native English speaker, I have no issue with hearing sermons in both English and Arabic as a majority of the Coptic Orthodox churches have a good section of Arabic speakers. Why should I, as an English speaker, be the only one built up and exhorted by the sermon to the neglect of my brothers and sisters who find sermons in Arabic more helpful? I think that we should bear with one another in love and understand that they need the spiritual food provided by the sermon just as much as I do.
There are many Coptic sermons in English. For example orthodoxsermons.org
Gents,
I'm talking about Arabic sermons in the Church. Yes, arabic sermons on the internet with English subtitles is beyond cruel. But, that's another story.
Look, let's cut a long story short here:
n France, the Minister of the Interior, Dominique de Villepin, considers it “not acceptable” that a third of imams working in France do not speak French. In an interview in Parisen/Aujourd’hui on December 7, the minister observed that, of the 1,200 imams who work in France, 75% are not French and a third do not speak the language. “We must have French imams speaking French,” he declared. “For that, each candidate must be given training which is theological (under the responsibility of existing institutions) and secular (under the responsibility of the universtities),” added the minister, who also intends to organize the ongoing training of already practising imams.
According to Le Figaro of December 7: “The formation of a new generation of imams speaking fluent French and knowing the laws of the Republic is taking shape. The department of Education and the Ministry of the Interior are in agreement: two Parisian universities, probably the Sorbonne and Assas, should be offering, from the start of the academic year 2005 onwards, a new university degree (DU), to acquire a perfect mastery of French law and society. This formation will be strongly recommended to candidates for the imamate, in addition to their religious studies.
“These future imams could notably follow a course at Assas, on the private rights of the person, constitutional rights, public liberty (which includes freedom of worship, opinion and property ownership…). Provided that this option be accepted by the Administration of Paris-II Assas, which is not yet the case.
The DU should also include courses on the history of France, its institutions …These courses could be given at Paris-IV Sorbonne and complete this introduction to French society, destined not only for apprentice imams, but also foreigners or people needing to know these basics in order to work in France.
This university formation will remain optional. But everything has been done to make it attractive. Notably, it will give the status of student and therefore entitlement to residence, as well as rights to social service and grants.
“This option pleased the Paris Mosque, who had suggested such a module last year in order to acclimatize its Algerian students to France. It has already produced a list of sixty students from its theological institute, apparently impatient to get acquainted with the university.
“The president of the UOIF (Union of Islamic Organizations of France), Lhaj Thami Breze, affirmed that he will encourage the students at his institute of Bouteloin (Nièvre) to follow this university course because “an imam can not ignore secularism and its history in France.” But he is already demanding financial aid for journeys to and accomodation in Paris. (…)”
-----------
So how are you different???
How many of your priests (living outside the diaspora) speak the language of the country they reside in? Who could speak for 30 mins (WELL SPOKEN!) about any subject - whether biblical or non biblical.
Its a small matter of curteousy that any preacher (muslim OR Christian) should AT THE VERY LEAST have the decency to tell the sermon in the language of the country they are in!!
And if the congregation speak only Arabic, then what the heck are they doing in Canada/UK/France etc???
I remember one guy I met in Canada (He didnt speak a word of English nor French) and was in Montreal.
He said to me:" Do u know the difference between Canada and Egypt?"
I said "what?"
He said "KETCHUP in plastic containers!"
"That's it. As far as I am concerned, I'm still in Egypt.", he continued.
And you wonder why people in the west dont see you as Christians?? Because you remind them of the same arabs that come out of mosques on Fridays.
Zoxsasi,
My friend Paul told me something similar. He came here after the Soviet Union collapsed. He lived in an enclave in NYC and mostly spoke Russian. He thought the only difference between Russia and the USA was the price of vodka. Paul said he believed that everyone in the USA outside his community was a liberal and an atheist.
Then he had to work for 6 months in Kentucky. He said he learned that most of Americans were Christians and conservative. He now lives in North Carolina and rarely goes the NYC and only speaks Russian when he talks on the phone to people still living there.
No actually, very few people know of us. Its hard for people to grasp the idea that we aren’t Muslim due to the fact we are from Egypt. This would be a conversation with your typical person…
Person: Oh cool you’re from Egypt! So are you Muslim?
Me: No, I’m orthodox Christian.
Person: Oh interesting, but you’re Muslim right?
Me: No….. I’m Coptic
Person: ohhhh, Coptic, so u celebrate Ramadan?
Me: NO, I’m Christian, NOT Muslim.
Person: it must be hard having to pray 5 times a day…
Me: I wouldn’t know; I’m not Muslim! I’m Coptic orthodox Christian!
Person: Oh right, Christian…, well I’ll see you later Mohammed
Me: My name is mark
Person: yeah that’s what I meant Mustafa, bye
Ugh…. Maybe a little over dramatized, but the American society is just as dense. Or maybe it’s just the people in Brooklyn…
-Mark
thats true. But when someoe asks me like where r u from i say im coptic then he will ask what is coptic?! i say its Christian Egyptian so he wont forget!!