Papal Exarch

copticuser20

Can someone please explain what is going on with the North American Papal Exarch Bishop Angelos? I see so many posts in Arabic about HG spreading wrong teachings, and now that he was removed from America and sent back to Egypt by the Synod?? Everyone in my church loves him. I'm not sure who these people are that keep complaining about him and what they are even arguing.

minatasgeel

There isn't much to know or to consider. People are taking His Grace's words out of context and calling him a heretic...without trying to understand what he really means.

As for going to Egypt, I know one of the main reasons his grace is going there for, but also because the congregation of his old diocese, North Shoubra, want him back. I am told that they sent an official request to the Pope for this. That doesn't mean that His Grace was going back for that specifically, nor does mean the decision was taken that he will not come back, nor does it mean that he was 'called' back to Egypt to discuss what people may think are heretical teachings. People just make conclusion that fit their end-goal while ignoring facts. 

minasoliman

If he goes back to North Shubra, I will be sad...i miss him already

minasoliman

So according to the US-International Coptic Media Center Facebook page, he went back to Egypt for his R-1 Visa to continue his service in the US. AT THE SAME TIME, North Shubra congregation and clergy requested that he be their bishop again. The Pope has made no comment on this request.

In other words, all positive reasons and proof of the positive strength and love of his leadership and service as bishop. All the online rumors of negativity is people being stupid.

minatasgeel

I have to agree to that last sentance :-)

atadros

Is the Visa issue Fake news? Just announced He is now assigned to North Shubra.

The Maqar is like the trump White House , controversial departures.

minatasgeel

The decision was made by the Pope yesterday to return Anba Angelos to Shobra. But i know for sure the R-1 visa was not "fake news"

Sorry, @minasoliman.

minasoliman

=((

That’s it! I’m moving to NYC

minasoliman

Just a side note:  The Maqar does not have "controversial departures".  All departures I'm aware of have been "promotions" for the service they offered, Anba Angelos included.

minatasgeel

I second @minasoliman. I can go further and say that each of the fathers had their own successes. I am just tired of the "small" changes. I hope the Pope has a long-term plan for us and just does it already, despite who it may upset....

copticuser20

Can you elaborate on what may upset whom? The only thing we are missing in NJ is being a diocese. How can that upset someone? 

minatasgeel

Anyone who may have some authority or control over a service or a church or some religious entity may be upset that an 'overseer' will come and possibly change that. Yes, I know we are Christians and are supposed to be godly, but the reality is that we are all humans and our human traits some times over power our spiritual ones. 

minasoliman

+1

Joshuaa

Lord have mercy. Our human nature is no excuse not to behave in a Godly way. With His love comes forgiveness. We can not make excuses for when God's love needs to overcome then. Where ever a priest goes, should we not wish him well?
We have had a priest removed because half of the congregation did not his organization. Now we have to get priests from different churches to replace him once a week.
There was no harm in him that I could see. Fèel in a bit like Pontius Pilate here without the condemnation result.
I can't believe you said our human tra it's overcome our spirituality Mina and Mina +1.
Whatever we do to each other we do to God.

minatasgeel

@Joshuaa...I am not saying that what i said i agree with or accept. But, it is reality. While our home is heaven, we still live on earth and are still capable of sinning in many many ways...which is ok only when we do realize that there is a way out--repentance. Same with the Church since the Church is full of the same believers that are capable of sin. We know we have issues and the an important step towards resolving them and identifying what are they. 

Daniel_Kyrillos

@copticuser20 Sayyedna was assigned to the Fairfax church, St. Mark, as we are the largest church in the DC metropolitan area- we have around 7 other churches around us who all are sisters to St. Mark. Right now the entire area is a state of confusion (St. Mark's is renovating and we recently lost the chapel that held a lot of activities that couldn't take place in the main building burned, 2 sister churches are moving, and another's priest is in limbo.) I believe HH and the Synod sent Anba Angelos to try and keep some order in the area. However, Sayyedna's actions seemed very controlling to the congregation. The biggest point of dispute was Hegoman Domadious Rizk (you may have watched him on His Erof). Sayyedna told the congregation that Abouna was leaving us and that we had no say in the matter. Of course, this was upsetting to everyone since we had already lost Abouna Bishoy Andrawes a couple years ago. The church has grown since then, and we had the same number of priests serving a greater number of people (we now have 2 priests permanently with us and a visiting priest who is leaving after Easter). This, combined with drama older than me, led to a lot of people angry at Sayyedna. Of course, it hasn't helped that the church is in the middle of renovation and the auxillary chapel we'd been using to deal with the crowd was destroyed in a fire.

Side note to all of this that I addressed before: under the creation of what I'll call the Mid-Atlantic diocese, we still answer directly to the patriarch and Synod, while Maryland, Deleware, and West Virginia are in this new MA diocese and the Carolinas are in the SUS diocese.

minatasgeel

@Daniel_Kyrillos...It sounds like you are saying that Anba Angelos left the diocese because he was 'called back' to Egypt because people were angry of him. That was not the case. And while Virginia has an ok amount of copts and churches, it's in no way near the number of churches and people in NJ. The problems with Abouna Bishoy has nothing to do with this. The circumstances around him leaving are clear and I'd rather not get into it.

I don't see what's the problem with actions that may appear "controlling" while they are profitable...maybe not in your view, but as a bishop and an 'overseer', he is supposed to see the big picture and act based on that. We don't see that and we don't know all the details surrounding his decisions. 

I am confused with your side note. Please clarify what are you saying exactly. 

Daniel_Kyrillos

@minatasgeel a while back, a new diocese was made encompassing MD, DE, WV, and other states in this reigon, placing them under Anba Karas. We, even though we have a large concentration of Copts (although, you are 100% right, nowhere near Jersey), were exlcuded from this diocese. We're kind of stuck in the middle- everyone north is in a diocese, Everyone south is in a diocese, and we're just as we have been.

All I meant by the mentioning of Abouna Bishoy is that people still have a bit of a bitter taste in their mouths from that.

minasoliman

There’s a bunch of things with VA...first there’s the case of Anba Michael, then there’s the issue with Abouna Bishoy, and then there’s also the nagging possibility that it has to do with neither, but that it is associated with the capital of the United States that the Pope (uncanonically) wants to keep it for himself.

minatasgeel

Somehow, minasoliman read my mind and put it in text. To add to that, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have Virginia as a diocese on its own, whenever the issues with Anba Michael are resolved. Don't forget that Anba Karas also have PA, which is the main state of his diocese. If you ask me, I think Anba Karas diocese is too big to be one, but I can understand how it was established considering the number of churches and congregation rather than actually geographic distance. Which may get us into how exactly is HH establishing dioceses...discussing that would be too speculative in which case it won't be fruitful. 

 

copticuser20

Now I hear that HG Bishop David is overseeing the Archdiocese until the Holy Synod meeting? Can anyone confirm this?