Is there a Feast of the Assumption or Domition of St. Mary coming up?

mcarmichael

I noticed that the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic are celebrating this today, is this a Coptic tradition also? Thanks

minasoliman

yes, August 22nd

mcarmichael

Is this because of the different calendars again? Thanks Mina

mabsoota

yes, there seem to be 2 traditions of when we celebrate it and old and new calendar in each tradition!

the british orthodox (coptic but new calendar) celebrated the feast a while ago;

the romanian orthodox (and greek i think) celebrated it on 15th and we celebrate next friday.

i think the old calendar eastern orthodox celebrate it even later than us.

the problem seems to be that there are slightly more than 365.25 days in the year, so the calendars got out of synch!

ophadece

No the whole story is St Mary died and her body was carried up to heaven and the only saint who saw that was St Thomas. So in order to convince the apostles he went to them and they arranged a fast and God showed them a vision of the same scene that St Thomas saw. That's the fast and feast we celebrate..

Oujai

minasoliman

The Coptic tradition has been recorded in the 6th Century by Pope St. Theodosius:

http://pages.uoregon.edu/sshoemak/texts/coptic/Theodosius.htm

Fr. Athanasius Iskander summarizes this homily:

http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/legacy/content/articles/basics/assumption.pdf

SUS Copts summarized Fr. Athanasius' summary:

http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/marilecture3.pdf

mabsoota

i meant 2 traditions of the time we celebrate it, not 2 reasons why we celebrate it.

i found 4 different dates for the assumption feast among my orthodox friends.

mcarmichael

Do you (Non-Chalcedonian Christians) also ascribe the title "Mother of God" to Mary? Because it's not entirely accurate. :)

Remnkemi

Your question is ambiguous at best. Nearly every English translation of St Cyril's theological works writes "Mother of God" or "Theotokos". I understand Mother of God is not a 100% translation of Theotokos, but at this point, Mother of God is in fact the de facto translation of Theotokos. 

That being said, anything less than Mother of God as a title for St Mary is Nestorian. We (Non-Chalcedonians) have stood by the teaching of our father St Cyril at all costs. 

mcarmichael

It's an absurd concept, a paradox. 

Perhaps it is my 20th century hindsight, but I don't think about the nature of Christ when I hear that term. Instead I just get irritated. 

:/

irishpilgrim

minasoliman,

Thank you for posting the links to St. Theodosius' tract and to Fr. Athanasius' article on the feasts of Dormition and Assumption. I believe that I had read Fr. Athanasius' article, with a little skepticism because this tradition does not seem to be understood by Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic traditions. The St. Theodosius tract authenticated the entire matter for me. Is an English translation of the remainders of St. Theodosius' Homily available. This helps me to better understand the Syrian Orthodox love for St. Theodora.

minasoliman

Sorry irishpilgrim, this is all that I found.

mcarmichael,

Why do you get irritated?  Why not rejoice with St. Elizabeth who felt honored that the mother of Her Lord should appear to her?

mcarmichael

St. Mary herself doesn't irritate me, it's the title, and possibly only the English translation, idk. Like I said, maybe it's my Protestant upbringing..

Hey have you all ever reached out to the Assyrian Church of the East? I'm reading up on them, one source I found said Nestorius' book, "The Bazaar of Heracleides", actually mirrors miaphysitism, thus my question.

Here is the source: BY FOOT TO CHINA

minasoliman

When one realizes that the titles given to St. Mary are titles we can inherit ourselves based on our efforts of righteousness under the grace of God, they are more than deserving of her in her honor.  Already in the very beginning, around the second century, you see writings of recapitulation calling her the "New Eve" as a reflection of Christ's role as the "New Adam", which means God chose her for her worthiness to become the Mother of the Savior!  Even the Assyrian Church acknowledges this honor to her.  The basis of their rejection of the title "Theotokos" has to do with how they perceive Christ.  Some people consider this another semantical issue, but I think this one is a bit more serious.  Semantics are quite damaging to the character of Christ when others perceive two persons in Christ.  We've had dialogues with them, and from a Coptic standpoint, so far, there is no theological agreement on Christ.  However, the main bishop that had dialogues with us defected and became a Roman Catholic.  One wonders if perhaps we should rekindle the discussions.

What do you mean the book "mirrors Miaphysitism"?  It seems very obvious that it is an extreme opposition to Miaphysitism, especially of St. Cyril of Alexandria.

mcarmichael

Do you know, it was pretty late last night when I read it, and most of it was way over my head but I though I had seen it said that somewhere but I can't find it and tried searching the document and zero results.

I definitely need to read it again anyway.

mcarmichael

Dave is a Catholic. Dave is a friend of mine who is homeless in San Luis Obispo, CA (ie. the best place on earth, period.) He suffered an aneurism when he was 35 years of age. Before Dave had an aneurism he was a painter. He had a girlfriend I think, and a sharp mind. I remember him often.

Anyway I was discussing with a friend, I said "Idk, I mean is it fair that they cut relations with Byzantine? If I've got it straight it seems like they cut relations due to politics, Nestorius came up, then the Sassanid compounded it.

When you think about it though, Nicea (which I'm sure you're aware the Assyrians accepted) only came up because of an Emporer, and weren't they (*the councils) announced by an Emporer? I could see how the Persians might be suspicious."

mcarmichael

Happy Feast Day, amigos. I will drink to you today.

mabsoota

thank you!

i raise my nice cup of coffee to you too

:-)