"Bishop bans women from wearing trousers, make-up in church " opinions?

EsmoEpchois

What do you guys think of this? Would love to hear some opinions from you orthodox educated folks here

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/107464.aspx

mabsoota

i think if the women are wearing asian baggy trousers (my favourite!) or any loose trousers, they should be allowed.

i do think 'shrink to fit' types of jeans and wearing leggings in place of trousers should be discouraged.

but i don't know what is the problem with 'blouses'. is it a mistake in translation?

does he mean low cut t shirt tops? otherwise a 'blouse' is just a frilly shirt, and is better than a low cut strappy (or strapless) dress.

i hope he also makes sure the guys don't have their bottom showing at the top of low cut trousers!

basically i think it is difficult to comment too seriously about this without knowing more about the translation, and about the context. do you know more about it?

Remnkemi

I know many people have a gripe against Metropolitan Bishoy of Damiette so it would not be surprising that anything he says receives a lot of backlash. However, let's think this through.

If Met Bishoy or any Coptic bishop said "all men must not wear shorts to receive communion", would there be any protest? I highly doubt it. It is already an established sign of respect that men should not wear shorts in liturgy. However, if any bishop places a similar restriction on women, it becomes some sort of oppressive misogyny. Why? We live in a world where hypocritical feminism is the norm. So before anyone cries Met Bishoy should publicly apologize for this, think again. Read 1 Cor 11:13 (insisting on head coverings is not much different than forbidding trousers, blouses and makeup)

Secondly, it is within episcopal authority to regulate dress code for eucharist. If I have time, I look for patristic support. One has to remember that many people see certain type of actions offensive, including inappropriate church attire. If one or some of these people (and some are clergy) see anyone wearing inappropriate church attire when approaching for communion, they will be offended and the eucharist will become eternal damnation. (1 Cor 11:27). This is a matter of salvation, not contemporary fashion.  The common solution for people who are offended, by Church standards, is to remove the offense even if it hurts (Mat 18:8). But by society's standards, the solution is to tell the person who was offended to "get over it. I can do whatever I want." Therein lies the real problem. The problem is not that Met Bishoy made these regulations, the problem is people want society's solutions to offenses because ecclesiastical, scriptural-based solutions are not popular and easy to do.

I'd also am interested to what others have to say.

ophadece

Both @mabsoota and @Remenkimi make very valid if not even accurate statements. Unfortunately people in Egypt including non-christians have attacked Anba Bishoy calling him a sala fist! Only recently I read that someone defended him and backtracked saying that that was not less than a 20-year old teaching, as if orthodoxy does really evolve with time. I don't know enough facts but I seriously hope that what was said did actually happen. Unfortunately In the church I Go to a couple of gentlemen celebrate the rare British fine weather and come in shorts! No one can speak to them or else they'd be too offended to come again..

Oujai

minasoliman

I think his major issue was publicly stating how we should dress up modestly like Hijabi women.  It is considered inappropriate in a country where Christians are under pressure, no matter the gender, to encourage this superiority complex these group of people have against the Christians.  Instead of comparing Christians to Muslim women, he would have done well by comparing modesty to solely the saints.  Instead, he had to televise his comparisons to those of another religion.  This, among other things he has done, tarnished his image in the Church.

With that said, concerning this situation, there is really no proof as of yet that His Eminence said this.  I think there was another bishop who said it best, "I don't know that His Eminence said this, and I would not comment on something that I have no assurance that it has been decreed."

ophadece

@minasoliman,

That clears it up for me. I'd heard a bishop said such a thing some time ago but don't remember if it was Anba Bishoy. I agree with you on what you said..

Oujai

EsmoEpchois

I very much agree with what everyone has said so far. Also, I don't really think it's a problem for him to say women should learn from the modesty of Muslims. We can learn from the evangelism of Jehovah's witnesses, going from door to door, or from the Mormon missionaries, or from Muslims who pray 5 times a day. He didn't say take their beliefs or faith, just learn from them.

ophadece

@EsmoEpchois,

 It's different when you praise Jehovah's witnesses publicly At the expense of your own faithful people.. I don't think that this is a wise thing to have said. Again I don't even remember who the quote related to!

Oujai

minasoliman

to be honest, what JW's do is not really what I would imagine Christ would want.  Let's not throw pearls before swine.  They need needs first.  We should concentrate our efforts to those in need, and then, this light we bring to the world will attract those to our doors rather than knock on their's.

minasoliman

Just to add to Rem's post, I have it from good authority that Pope St. Kyrillos VI did not like men who wore short sleeves to Church (good authority meaning my uncle who was rebuked for his short sleeves by the saint), and this is consistent with monastic practices, even in the Greek churches, where men and women are not allowed to enter without long and loose slacks (or at least something that covers all the way to the ankles that is not tight) and the same with upper body clothing, covering all the way to the wrists.

Frankly, the Ethiopian church practice that all wear white (presumably their garb they wore in baptism) is something I am most attracted to.  It helps us focus not on the clothes of each person, but on the heavenly atmosphere of the Church.  I don't mind if every single congregant wore a white "tonia" upon entering the Church.

EsmoEpchois

Whenever HG Abba Makarios comes, the Ethiopian bishop, he makes at least three ladies wait to be last to take communion and one cry if they are wearing lipstick

It's comical because you would think after the first or second visit, they would learn

ophadece

Oh no it's not like there's complacency in the Coptic church with the apostles' canons, perhaps just too much culturalism that needs banning.. No wait that's the muslim mentality spreading to the Coptic church, we're not the Greek or Ethiopian after all.. Oh no wait, that's No adherence to dress code these things are too worldly to think of, I'm not a protestant by the way.. oh wait is this a protestant move finding its way into the church? No No can't be

 Oujai