Hi all,
What is exactly happening in the North East? The Maqar facebook group has pictures of HG Bishop David and they are all saying that they will miss him. Where is he going? I live in the Archdiocese and haven't heard anything about a new Bishop/diocese. Is this related to the recent events going on in New Jersey?
Comments
1. How does the whole Makkar know about this if HH didn't say anything about it?
2. What are the boundaries of the new dioceses?
3. What is happening with the second diocese? Will it still be part of the Archdiocese and have a General Bishop over it?
Why is New Jersey remaining as an Archdiocese? I don't understand this concept. People have been saying that it is so the Pope can come and go as he pleases. He is the Pope...I don't think any Bishop would deny him entrance into the diocese.
Because NJ IS THE Archdiocese being the first diocese in the states. We always think of it like Alexandria. The first diocese in egypt which the Pope is the bishop for.
I really think it's going to stay that way and I like that way myself.
P.s- Wikipedia says that there is another Patriarchal Exarch in Cedar Grove named Bishop Youhanna. Who is this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Orthodox_Church_in_the_United_States
[quote author=athanasius piapostolikos link=topic=14645.msg166177#msg166177 date=1380995047]
Why is New Jersey remaining as an Archdiocese? I don't understand this concept. People have been saying that it is so the Pope can come and go as he pleases. He is the Pope...I don't think any Bishop would deny him entrance into the diocese.
Because NJ IS THE Archdiocese being the first diocese in the states. We always think of it like Alexandria. The first diocese in egypt which the Pope is the bishop for.
I really think it's going to stay that way and I like that way myself.
Arch-Diocese demands an Arch-Bishop. Not a remote control bishopric from Egypt. The dioceses of the church are not a game of Pacman. You cannot be miles away and guide the people. If it is to remain an archdiocese, it requires an archbishop.
All in favor of me being Archbishop of New York? Aye!!!
Archbishop Raymond - Vicar to the Orthodox Church in The Americas. Patriarch of the Americans.
Arch-Diocese demands an Arch-Bishop. Not a remote control bishopric from Egypt. The dioceses of the church are not a game of Pacman. You cannot be miles away and guide the people. If it is to remain an archdiocese, it requires an archbishop.
The Pope is an archbishop :-) too alte....anba David beat you to it... :p
Some people on the Coptic World website are suggesting that those of us who feel this way should write to the Pope en masse or start a petition. Anyone here interested?
I wish that New Jersey could've been included in the new diocese. H.G. Anba David has been our father for more than a decade baptizing us, marrying us, burying our dead, ordaining our deacons, inspiring and caring for our youth and providing all of the pastoral care our churches could ever need. He is our Father, and if we are to be separated from him, we will miss him dearly. :'(
Some people on the Coptic World website are suggesting that those of us who feel this way should write to the Pope en masse or start a petition. Anyone here interested?
I am with you that we will miss his grace....but it's not like he is going to another country!!! His grace will still be around to be with the youth and in liturgies, weddings....etc.
People make a big deal out of everything. I am really against any petition by anyone to think they can interfere with the governing of God's Church.
I wish that New Jersey could've been included in the new diocese. H.G. Anba David has been our father for more than a decade baptizing us, marrying us, burying our dead, ordaining our deacons, inspiring and caring for our youth and providing all of the pastoral care our churches could ever need. He is our Father, and if we are to be separated from him, we will miss him dearly. :'(
Some people on the Coptic World website are suggesting that those of us who feel this way should write to the Pope en masse or start a petition. Anyone here interested?
Absolutely not! NJ cannot be with New York. There are just too many churches to govern. New Jersey has over 20 churches alone and grows every month. We also have Pennsylvania where like 10 churches sprouted out of nowhere. Plus, NJ has a tough congregation to deal with and really needs dedication of time (more of a reason to not be an Arch-diocese, governed by someone who lives on another continent). But that is my own opinion. And I hate petitions and marches and rallies. Its called prayer people
I think our brother Anotonious' Intentions are by no means what has been made out to be by the previous two posters at all! He is not calling for some sort of revolution or anything of the sort. Antonios, a faithful disciple and child of Bishop David, is asking that his father remain close to him. A noble and Christian cause. He is also saying that he wants to make it so that there is a possibility for this to happen. But how can anything like this happen unless we ask for it. He is not asking fora referendum or a rejection of hierarchical order, but just that we as a community ask for HGB David to take Jersey under his wings. Again, he is not asking for a protest. He is just asking if people would be willing to send some sort of request to the hierarchic order of our church.
If God allows us to ask him, we should be unafraid to ask men. Prayer is important (of absolute greatest importance at that, and not just an addendum) but we are instructed to bring our concerns to the hierarchy of our church. This is what they are there for! To hear the concerns of their children. And Antonious' desire to continue his sonship to HGB David is a worthy cause to ask the synod.
Marches and Rallies? Whence have you derived this?
Asking for something is by no means "interfering."
Archbishop Raymond the Great of Everything in the World (Tasgeel, I doubt Anba David beat me to that one LOL)
I don't mean to be harsh to Antonius...I guess the recent stupid actions of youth from Bayonne church are gettin me a little fired up....and making me say that it is also my desire to keep being an Archdiocese and having the Pope as the bishop...while also believing that Anba David is the perfect person for being the general bishop on behalf of the Pope here. But what I want or desire means nothing...it's not in mine hands to choose and I thank God for that. Let those who have the choice be judged for it.
I am worried though about who will be ordained instead us here....
One more thing....go study... And make sure my brother is too
Pope of World
Marches and Rallies? Whence have you derived this?
Asking for something is by no means "interfering."
Sorry- was not directing that towards you. Just added it in to connect to petitioning
What are you referring to in Bayonne?
if you don't know about it then it's better not to talk about it.....
[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=14645.msg166189#msg166189 date=1381121728]
Marches and Rallies? Whence have you derived this?
Asking for something is by no means "interfering."
Sorry- was not directing that towards you. Just added it in to connect to petitioning
Awesome! In that case, you and I certainly agree my friend!! :D But just note that the "petitioning" Nick is reffering to is not one of revolution, but of request.
Your Pope,
His Extremely Holy Holiness Raymond the Great
Yes, the Pope is an Archbishop. But he is miles away from his diocese, and is not fluent in its culture or even language. What good is that? Churches = Area of Christians = Diocese = Bishop overseeing it = no remote control bishoprics.
I think our brother Anotonious' Intentions are by no means what has been made out to be by the previous two posters at all! He is not calling for some sort of revolution or anything of the sort. Antonios, a faithful disciple and child of Bishop David, is asking that his father remain close to him. A noble and Christian cause. He is also saying that he wants to make it so that there is a possibility for this to happen. But how can anything like this happen unless we ask for it. He is not asking fora referendum or a rejection of hierarchical order, but just that we as a community ask for HGB David to take Jersey under his wings. Again, he is not asking for a protest. He is just asking if people would be willing to send some sort of request to the hierarchic order of our church.
If God allows us to ask him, we should be unafraid to ask men. Prayer is important (of absolute greatest importance at that, and not just an addendum) but we are instructed to bring our concerns to the hierarchy of our church. This is what they are there for! To hear the concerns of their children. And Antonious' desire to continue his sonship to HGB David is a worthy cause to ask the synod.
Marches and Rallies? Whence have you derived this?
Asking for something is by no means "interfering."
Archbishop Raymond the Great of Everything in the World (Tasgeel, I doubt Anba David beat me to that one LOL)
Thank you, Ray, for understanding and clarifying what I meant. All I meant was that as a child, I thought I might tug on the corner of my spiritual Baba's robe and let him know what was on my heart. I have no strange delusions about marches, rallies (LOL - What?!?), or "governing the Church" in any way. I accept God's will as expressed through the decisions of His servants my Fathers entirely. Sorry to anyone if I was unclear. Our merciful God forbid we should ever have a "revolution" "reformation" or "new age" movement in the Church.
[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=14645.msg166189#msg166189 date=1381121728]
Yes, the Pope is an Archbishop. But he is miles away from his diocese, and is not fluent in its culture or even language. What good is that? Churches = Area of Christians = Diocese = Bishop overseeing it = no remote control bishoprics.
I think our brother Anotonious' Intentions are by no means what has been made out to be by the previous two posters at all! He is not calling for some sort of revolution or anything of the sort. Antonios, a faithful disciple and child of Bishop David, is asking that his father remain close to him. A noble and Christian cause. He is also saying that he wants to make it so that there is a possibility for this to happen. But how can anything like this happen unless we ask for it. He is not asking fora referendum or a rejection of hierarchical order, but just that we as a community ask for HGB David to take Jersey under his wings. Again, he is not asking for a protest. He is just asking if people would be willing to send some sort of request to the hierarchic order of our church.
If God allows us to ask him, we should be unafraid to ask men. Prayer is important (of absolute greatest importance at that, and not just an addendum) but we are instructed to bring our concerns to the hierarchy of our church. This is what they are there for! To hear the concerns of their children. And Antonious' desire to continue his sonship to HGB David is a worthy cause to ask the synod.
Marches and Rallies? Whence have you derived this?
Asking for something is by no means "interfering."
Archbishop Raymond the Great of Everything in the World (Tasgeel, I doubt Anba David beat me to that one LOL)
Thank you, Ray, for understanding and clarifying what I meant. All I meant was that as a child, I thought I might tug on the corner of my spiritual Baba's robe and let him know what was on my heart. I have no strange delusions about marches, rallies (LOL - What?!?), or "governing the Church" in any way. I accept God's will as expressed through the decisions of His servants my Fathers entirely. Sorry to anyone if I was unclear. Our merciful God forbid we should ever have a "revolution" "reformation" or "new age" movement in the Church.
the thing is, you may have that simple love and want to do something to show that love. but when you open it for everyone else, who may not have the same simple love and most of the time over-zealous love that hurts more then helps, everything gets out of control.
Glory be to our God. "Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet.” (Judges 14:14)
The words of God never fail. They are to the end of times.
Glory be to our God. "Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet.” (Judges 14:14)
I don't get it.
the thing is, you may have that simple love and want to do something to show that love. but when you open it for everyone else, who may not have the same simple love and most of the time over-zealous love that hurts more then helps, everything gets out of control.
This is true and I have seen it happen before.
About a decade ago, a small, theologically conservative group of Coptic Orthodox Christians were advocating for mission in North America. Their goals were modest: English liturgies, outreach to non-Egyptians, et cetera. It wasn't long before others - more zealous and less thoughtful as you've described - took these same ideas and - intentionally or not - widened and distorted them to a point that they've done much more harm than good to the Church, attempting to blend mega-church Protestantism with Orthodoxy under the guise of acculturation.
If it was unwise of me to ask others if they thought communicating with the Pope on the matter of the new diocese was reactionary or unwise, I stand corrected.
God is merciful. May He preserve His Church.
[quote author=Stavro link=topic=14645.msg166211#msg166211 date=1381244292]
The words of God never fail. They are to the end of times.
Glory be to our God. "Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet.” (Judges 14:14)
God bless you, Stavro, my brother. Pray for me.