Cherubim & Seraphim

Cyril97

Hey Guys,
I was talking to a friend on Sunday...and he asked me why is "the cherubim and the seraphim" conjugated
plurally in coptic...in any hymn! Its always: Ni-Sherobim...Ni-Seraphim. Y?
I think that ni is usually for plural...like ni-fiowi...is the heavens...or ni-athloforos vs. pi-athloforos...
So my question is...y is it ni-? Lool are there many in Heaven?
GB, nd plz PFM,
Cyril

minatasgeel

there are 2 cherubim and 2 seraphim. the singular is cherub and seraph.

mark.naguib7

[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=14222.msg163035#msg163035 date=1359404823]
there are 2 cherubim and 2 seraphim. the singular is cherub and seraph.


Only two of each? Do they each have different jobs? Can you tell us more about them?

Cyril97

Wow! I didn't know that! Is there any biblical reference you can direct me to?
Nd ya...copticandproud raised some good points...

Remnkemi

[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=14222.msg163038#msg163038 date=1359407610]
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=14222.msg163035#msg163035 date=1359404823]
there are 2 cherubim and 2 seraphim. the singular is cherub and seraph.


Only two of each? Do they each have different jobs? Can you tell us more about them?

Here's what I found about this particular topic of angelology.

In the NIV, "cherub" is used 12 times and it is always singular. "Cherubim" is used 63 times and it is always plural. Linguistically, the word "cherub" or "cherubim" is cognate (blood relatives) in Hebrew, Assyrian, and Akkadian meaning "great or mighty". In Assyro-Babylonian religions, the Cherubs (actually called shedu) were "protective deities found in pairs as colossal statues on either side of the object to be protected" This is why they are usually called Cherubim, not Cherub (more instances of the plural than the singular in the Bible). By the time it reached early Semitic cultures, they cherubim were no longer deities but angels, found in pairs and protecting an object. This carried over into the Mosaic Ark where there were two golden cherubim (more accurately a pair of golden cherubim since we already know it has to be two or more) covering (or protecting) the Ark of the Covenant. Even in Solomon's Temple in 1 Kings 6:23-28, the only thing found inside the inner temple are two cherubim on the wall protecting the inner sanctuary.

Also in Assyro-Babylonian tradition, the cherubim were often viewed as storm deities that protect and cover the earth. Again the image of storm angels fits into Psalm 18:10. The Lord now rides on these storm deities as if He is riding or coming from the clouds - the exact image of Jesus' ascension in  Acts 1. This is why we often say "the cherubimic throne" or "He who sits on the Cherubim" - which is a throne made of clouds or smoke.

Also in Assyro-Babylonian tradition, the shedu were also depicted as "human-headed winged lions" like the Sphinx. Sometimes the human head was changed to an eagle's head with a lion's body. This corresponds with Ezekiel's description in Ezek 10. Ezekiel tells us, "The cloud filled the temple, and the court was full of the radiance of the glory of the Lord." Again the image of a cloud fits with the image of storm deities. He described winged creatures with human hands under the wings, 4 types of heads and numerous eyes. They all looked like a wheel intersecting with another wheel. However, defying the laws of physics, the Cherubim moved without the wheels in the direction of the head. And where ever the Lord went, the Cherubim went as if the Lord was enthroned on them.

So the Cherubim are protective angels often carrying the Lord. They are associated with images of clouds, different heads, long wings, and thrones or chariots. They are usually working in pairs to protect a doorway or a path.

Now let's talk about Seraphim. The same concept is found. The singular is seraph and the plural is seraphim. Seraph is a Hebrew word that means burning ones. In Isaiah 6, the Seraphim take a coal and put it on Isaiah's lips. It was the Seraphim whose loud voices shook the Temple and startled Isaiah. It was the Seraphim that praised the Trisagion "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts, the whole earth is filled with His glory". This is why St Gregory says, "God who gave to those on earth the praise of the Seraphim". The Seraphim became associated with angels who are burning with zeal to praise the Lord. For these reasons, many believe that Revelations 4:4-8 describes Seraphim who sing the same Trisagion hymn. However, the imagery of the cherubim with four different heads, wings and numerous eyes, is described in Rev 4. For this reason, Cherubim and Seraphim are often used interchangeably.

In Numbers, Deutoronomy and Isaiah, the word seraph is translated as serpent. The theory is that serpent poison gives a burning sensation if it doesn't kill you.

In the Book of Enoch, Seraphim are found with Cherubim but they are distinct in rank.

While the Coptic Church has an angelic hierarchy, there is no distinct chronological or honorific order among the angelic hierarchy. All the different angelic orders stand before God. In the Commemoration of Saints, we find the following order: Archangels, Dominions, Powers, Cherubim, Seraphim, Four incorporeal beasts, 24 priests, all angels. While in St Basil's liturgy we have archangels, angels, principalities, dominions, thrones, lordships, and powers. We can assume that the angels called "thrones" are the "Cherubim" and the angels called powers are angels in general. I also think the angels called dominions are the angels of Revelations who are given dominion to destroy the earth. I also think the Four incorporeal beasts are actually cherubim. But they are distinct in the Commemoration of the Saints.

Sorry for the long post. I hope this helped.

mark.naguib7

[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=14222.msg163047#msg163047 date=1359472441]
[quote author=Copticandproud link=topic=14222.msg163038#msg163038 date=1359407610]
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=14222.msg163035#msg163035 date=1359404823]
there are 2 cherubim and 2 seraphim. the singular is cherub and seraph.


Only two of each? Do they each have different jobs? Can you tell us more about them?

Here's what I found about this particular topic of angelology.

In the NIV, "cherub" is used 12 times and it is always singular. "Cherubim" is used 63 times and it is always plural. Linguistically, the word "cherub" or "cherubim" is cognate (blood relatives) in Hebrew, Assyrian, and Akkadian meaning "great or mighty". In Assyro-Babylonian religions, the Cherubs (actually called shedu) were "protective deities found in pairs as colossal statues on either side of the object to be protected" This is why they are usually called Cherubim, not Cherub (more instances of the plural than the singular in the Bible). By the time it reached early Semitic cultures, they cherubim were no longer deities but angels, found in pairs and protecting an object. This carried over into the Mosaic Ark where there were two golden cherubim (more accurately a pair of golden cherubim since we already know it has to be two or more) covering (or protecting) the Ark of the Covenant. Even in Solomon's Temple in 1 Kings 6:23-28, the only thing found inside the inner temple are two cherubim on the wall protecting the inner sanctuary.

Also in Assyro-Babylonian tradition, the cherubim were often viewed as storm deities that protect and cover the earth. Again the image of storm angels fits into Psalm 18:10. The Lord now rides on these storm deities as if He is riding or coming from the clouds - the exact image of Jesus' ascension in  Acts 1. This is why we often say "the cherubimic throne" or "He who sits on the Cherubim" - which is a throne made of clouds or smoke.

Also in Assyro-Babylonian tradition, the shedu were also depicted as "human-headed winged lions" like the Sphinx. Sometimes the human head was changed to an eagle's head with a lion's body. This corresponds with Ezekiel's description in Ezek 10. Ezekiel tells us, "The cloud filled the temple, and the court was full of the radiance of the glory of the Lord." Again the image of a cloud fits with the image of storm deities. He described winged creatures with human hands under the wings, 4 types of heads and numerous eyes. They all looked like a wheel intersecting with another wheel. However, defying the laws of physics, the Cherubim moved without the wheels in the direction of the head. And where ever the Lord went, the Cherubim went as if the Lord was enthroned on them.

So the Cherubim are protective angels often carrying the Lord. They are associated with images of clouds, different heads, long wings, and thrones or chariots. They are usually working in pairs to protect a doorway or a path.

Now let's talk about Seraphim. The same concept is found. The singular is seraph and the plural is seraphim. Seraph is a Hebrew word that means burning ones. In Isaiah 6, the Seraphim take a coal and put it on Isaiah's lips. It was the Seraphim whose loud voices shook the Temple and startled Isaiah. It was the Seraphim that praised the Trisagion "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts, the whole earth is filled with His glory". This is why St Gregory says, "God who gave to those on earth the praise of the Seraphim". The Seraphim became associated with angels who are burning with zeal to praise the Lord. For these reasons, many believe that Revelations 4:4-8 describes Seraphim who sing the same Trisagion hymn. However, the imagery of the cherubim with four different heads, wings and numerous eyes, is described in Rev 4. For this reason, Cherubim and Seraphim are often used interchangeably.

In Numbers, Deutoronomy and Isaiah, the word seraph is translated as serpent. The theory is that serpent poison gives a burning sensation if it doesn't kill you.

In the Book of Enoch, Seraphim are found with Cherubim but they are distinct in rank.

While the Coptic Church has an angelic hierarchy, there is no distinct chronological or honorific order among the angelic hierarchy. All the different angelic orders stand before God. In the Commemoration of Saints, we find the following order: Archangels, Dominions, Powers, Cherubim, Seraphim, Four incorporeal beasts, 24 priests, all angels. While in St Basil's liturgy we have archangels, angels, principalities, dominions, thrones, lordships, and powers. We can assume that the angels called "thrones" are the "Cherubim" and the angels called powers are angels in general. I also think the angels called dominions are the angels of Revelations who are given dominion to destroy the earth. I also think the Four incorporeal beasts are actually cherubim. But they are distinct in the Commemoration of the Saints.

Sorry for the long post. I hope this helped.


It most certainly did. This was really interesting. Thank you!