Intercessory Prayer

jerry

I read this document of the Coptic Church. (http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/misclecture6.pdf)

I get the general idea of asking the saints for intercessory prayer.  I want to be clear though.  What scriptual reference is there where there is intercessory prayer by the saints, specifically in the NT?

I understand that you do not pray to saints.  I guess what I'm trying to grasp is that the scriptures say that Jesus ineterceeds for us so what could any saint do to improve on that or add to it?

qawe

[quote author=jerry link=topic=13119.msg154098#msg154098 date=1333410932]
I read this document of the Coptic Church. (http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/misclecture6.pdf)

I get the general idea of asking the saints for intercessory prayer.  I want to be clear though.  What scriptual reference is there where there is intercessory prayer by the saints, specifically in the NT?

I understand that you do not pray to saints.  I guess what I'm trying to grasp is that the scriptures say that Jesus ineterceeds for us so what could any saint do to improve on that or add to it?


I've posted this before: John 2:1-7. Again, it's just like asking anyone here on earth to pray for you.

Regarding Jesus' intercession, I think that's a different sense of the word, especially since Jesus is God as well as the Father (whom he intercedes to), so I'll leave mthat to the theological experts.

God bless you on your journey

jerry

I've posted this before: John 2:1-7. Again, it's just like asking anyone here on earth to pray for you.

Forgive me, I haven't read all the posts on the subject.  Its different to those not raised or educated in this church.  Outsiders view asking someone who is dead and ascended to Heaven and someone who is living on earth is different.  Speaking to the dead is a grey area for me.  That's why I was looking for scripture talking about the saints interceeding or someonte other than Jesus in Heaven interceeding.

Ioannes

St. Paul says to make intercessions and then refers to Christ as THE mediator. The is only one mediator, one that can reconcile two parties, as Christ did for humanity. However, there are many intercessors. If you ask someone to pray for you then that is no different than asking one who has passed to pray for you. We do not believe in sola scriptura and therefore it does not explicitly have to be said in scripture for it to be fact.

Unknown

[quote author=jerry link=topic=13119.msg154105#msg154105 date=1333419052]

I've posted this before: John 2:1-7. Again, it's just like asking anyone here on earth to pray for you.

Speaking to the dead is a grey area for me. 


Hey Jerry,

I think that is the key. In protestant tradition, the dead are seen as being out aside from the world. As Orthodox, those who die and are given the grace of salvation are part of the "Victorious Church." We are united through Christ. We are still one church even though they have departed. For example, Pope Shenouda is still a father of our church, even though he is not with us anymore.

So we don't see this huge "divide" called death as a separation between churches, but rather, a translocation. We are still one church, for one shepherd.

Your questions are good. I hope you continue to ask of what you do not understand, and I am certain that you will find your answer. Fr. Peter comes from an evangelical background, so he would probably be of extreme help to you. He has produced some great podcasts speaking about the difference between Orthodox and Protestant. Try this, and this.

God Bless You!

ReturnOrthodoxy

jerry

Hey Jerry,

I think that is the key. In protestant tradition, the dead are seen as being out aside from the world. As Orthodox, those who die and are given the grace of salvation are part of the "Victorious Church." We are united through Christ. We are still one church even though they have departed. For example, Pope Shenouda is still a father of our church, even though he is not with us anymore.

So we don't see this huge "divide" called death as a separation between churches, but rather, a translocation. We are still one church, for one shepherd.

Your questions are good. I hope you continue to ask of what you do not understand, and I am certain that you will find your answer. Fr. Peter comes from an evangelical background, so he would probably be of extreme help to you. He has produced some great podcasts speaking about the difference between Orthodox and Protestant. Try this, and this.

God Bless You!

ReturnOrthodoxy

I've never thought of "translocation" but think its a very interesting concept.  I can think of like when my grandfather passed away, I still spoke to him a few times.  I wasn't praying to him but in my own way talking to him.  I like the idea of still being connected to a Christian even thought they've passed away.  If we're at one with the Spirit it only makes sense.

Unknown

Hey,

Well we definitely do not practice any form of necromancy in which we have conversations with the Saints. Sometimes, a saint will come to a person of deep faith, but it is not a summoning in which we call a saint over and speak to him. But we have faith in their love which has been completed in God, and their constant willingness to intercede for the church that they love.

We Christians are always united. We never die from unity with one another. We are one body. Being dead does not detach a person from being part of the body of Christ. If I am part of the Body of Christ, and Pope Kyrollos is also part of the body of Christ, then by what means can we be considered separated?

Also, we don't pray to a saint. We pray to God, and ask the saints to urge Him to come to our aid.

ReturnOrthodoxy

imikhail

There are many references in the NT of intercessions especially in the book of Revelation.

I will not cite them all but a great example is that of those slain under the altar asking God to punish the evil people. This means that the saints do know what is happening on earth though they are in paradise.

This is why we ask the saints to pray for us so that the Lord may have compassion on us.