Muslims praying in Coptic Churches

Zoxsasi

Hi,

The Church in Tahrir Sq is obviously being used to help the demonstrators as a makeshift hospital. However, there have been photos going around the internet of Muslim women praying there in front of the Altar.

(I guess they were standing in front, praying (facing away from the Altar) because its the only place that has a carpet.

Is this disrespectful? How does the Coptic Church view this action?

But my main question is this:

Are we being tolerant, because we have no other choice??

I mean, my priest won't allow catholic songs in the Church, so I'm a bit surprised to see that priests are allowing muslim prayers there.

Secondly, is this reciprocal ?? I mean - would muslims be happy if a mosque was being used as a makeshift hospital and Christians used it also to pray the vespers there?? Would they be OK with that??

peter_saad

This a big problem in theCoptic church..We're becoming way too tolerant. People are taking 'turn the other cheek' too far. We're being kicked around like dogs. I'm not saying we should return violence for violence, but we can't just sit here and let them burn our churches and then pray in them.

If someone lit your house on fire, would you let them sleep in it? We should be tolerant, but not to this extent.

As far as your last point, they kick anyone out of the mosque for the slightest things. NO WAY will they ever let any Christian pray in a mosque. (not that any Christian would want to)

My question is: What were women doing in the church praying? Don't they have their own mosque??? ?

Zoxsasi

[quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12604.msg147987#msg147987 date=1322234223]
This a big problem in theCoptic church..We're becoming way too tolerant. People are taking 'turn the other cheek' too far. We're being kicked around like dogs. I'm not saying we should return violence for violence, but we can't just sit here and let them burn our churches and then pray in them.

If someone lit your house on fire, would you let them sleep in it? We should be tolerant, but not to this extent.

As far as your last point, they kick anyone out of the mosque for the slightest things. NO WAY will they ever let any Christian pray in a mosque. (not that any Christian would want to)

My question is: What were women doing in the church praying? Don't they have their own mosque??? ?


Apparently the Church was being used as a make-shift hospital for the injured in Tahrir Sq. That's how the women were there. However, I'm not sure I buy this story. THe Church was totally empty except for these 2 women praying RIGHT near the Altar.

pharoh123

This is ridiculous! Our prayer house is a house of God not the Satanic worships of Islam.
Either there was a mistake, or they forced themselves in to do so or we should demand an explanation from the priests of that church. There's a millions of mosques in Egypt everywhere, they could've gone anywhere else.

ron

First of all, its an Anglican church. Its not coptic and you can tell, there are no crosses or icons anywhere on the walls of the church. This church is right in the middle of tahrir sq. Also, Christians do not hate, not even other religions. If a muslim walks into a church, kicking them out or looking at them with hatred in our eyes, defeats all teachings of Christ. Ghandi himself, a peaceful man, said that if it wasnt for the way christians treated him when he went to visit a church, he would be a christian now for he loves the teaching of Christ. So please refrain from displaying hate on these posts. You never know when a non-christian is in search of Christ but instead he finds your hatred.

Biboboy

Agape,

First of all, get the facts straight. The make-shift hospital happens to be in a Presbyterian church, not in an Orthodox church. You can read about it here:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/27533/Egypt/Politics-/Houses-of-God-turn-to-field-clinics-in-Tahrirs-ong.aspx

Second, and more importantly, there's nothing wrong with turning churches into places of refuge, shelter, and medical care. This has been done many times in the past, by many of the Church and Desert Fathers, especially since the times they lived in were times of high poverty and war. The church has always been a place of refuge and care. Just as you are expected to open your doors and welcome a suffering stranger, the church, which is God's home, is open to all people, fully hospitable to the stranger, sheltering the enemy, feeding the poor, and treating the injured.

peter_saad

[quote author=ron link=topic=12604.msg147991#msg147991 date=1322244968]
First of all, its an Anglican church. Its not coptic and you can tell, there are no crosses or icons anywhere on the walls of the church. This church is right in the middle of tahrir sq. Also, Christians do not hate, not even other religions. If a muslim walks into a church, kicking them out or looking at them with hatred in our eyes, defeats all teachings of Christ. Ghandi himself, a peaceful man, said that if it wasnt for the way christians treated him when he went to visit a church, he would be a christian now for he loves the teaching of Christ. So please refrain from displaying hate on these posts. You never know when a non-christian is in search of Christ but instead he finds your hatred.
This isn't hatred. This is one of those 'you started it first' situations. If anything, we, as Copts, have been extremely patient with Muslims. Sometimes being patient beyond necessary. Muslims looked at us with hatred first, so why should we sit here and take it?  As I said before, we take the 'turn the other cheek' verse a bit too far, sadly to say.

Are you Coptic, Ron?

peter_saad

[quote author=Biboboy link=topic=12604.msg147992#msg147992 date=1322245161]
Agape,

First of all, get the facts straight. The make-shift hospital happens to be in a Presbyterian church, not in an Orthodox church. You can read about it here:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/27533/Egypt/Politics-/Houses-of-God-turn-to-field-clinics-in-Tahrirs-ong.aspx

Second, and more importantly, there's nothing wrong with turning churches into places of refuge, shelter, and medical care. This has been done many times in the past, by many of the Church and Desert Fathers, especially since the times they lived in were times of high poverty and war. The church has always been a place of refuge and care. Just as you are expected to open your doors and welcome a suffering stranger, the church, which is God's home, is open to all people, fully hospitable to the stranger, sheltering the enemy, feeding the poor, and treating the injured.
All of that is true, but we can't let them PRAY in the church. That's absurd. The Church is the house of God, not the Devil.

pharoh123

I have no problem with the Church providing medical aid but if it is being used for prayer in front of the altar as Zoxasi said, then obviously there's a problem. If not, using it for refuge, medical aid, feeding the needy whether Christian or Muslim or Jew, etc. is perfectly alright.

ophadece

Evangelist churches have no altar as per our Coptic definition. It has been used sometimes for other faiths to come and pray. You can call it a multi-faith congregation place... not a Coptic church.
Christians are not too tolerant and they have to be commended Evangelists let something like this happen. Muslims hate us, and we love them and provide them with food, shelter and allow them to pray too. Again I repeat this is not a Coptic church, and I don't have any problem with that. I have a problem really when the Coptic cathedral in Abbaseya organises tables and banquets in ramadan every year. That is against what St. Paul teaches... sorry
Oujai qen `P[C

Anthonypk7

I need to see this picture... now!

pharoh123

[quote author=✞Je Nai Nan✞ link=topic=12604.msg148001#msg148001 date=1322254293]
I need to see this picture... now!

Same here, I want to see the picture of the women praying in front of an altar. This is what really concerns me. Even if it really just is an Evangelical church, it'd be interested in the photo.

Biboboy

Agape,

It's probably this pic that's being discussed here:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/390271_203509843062748_105468476200219_499226_2121929038_n.jpg

They're praying in the pulpit/stage area of this church. There's no altar in a Presbyterian church - just a stage for a choir and a pulpit from which the Bible is read and the sermon is preached.

Anyway, observant Muslims can never pray inside a Coptic Orthodox church (or a Catholic one for that matter), because they can't pray in any place that has images.

Anthonypk7

I dont see any icons around the church, is this a Coptic or a catholic or what kind of church ?????

pharoh123

I still find it insulting, they have millions of mosques all around central Cairo, there's no lack of mosques anywhere in Egypt. Why are they praying in a Christian (albeit not Coptic but still) church?

Zoxsasi

[quote author=Biboboy link=topic=12604.msg147992#msg147992 date=1322245161]
Agape,

First of all, get the facts straight. The make-shift hospital happens to be in a Presbyterian church, not in an Orthodox church. You can read about it here:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/27533/Egypt/Politics-/Houses-of-God-turn-to-field-clinics-in-Tahrirs-ong.aspx

Second, and more importantly, there's nothing wrong with turning churches into places of refuge, shelter, and medical care. This has been done many times in the past, by many of the Church and Desert Fathers, especially since the times they lived in were times of high poverty and war. The church has always been a place of refuge and care. Just as you are expected to open your doors and welcome a suffering stranger, the church, which is God's home, is open to all people, fully hospitable to the stranger, sheltering the enemy, feeding the poor, and treating the injured.


Dude, I said clearly that i DOUBT this pic was from the above story of Tahrir. The Church in the centre of Tahrir was overcrowded with patients.

So, these muslim women just wanted to find a nice quiet place to pray to their allah and thought why not a Church?!!

Does it matter if its a Coptic or a presbyterian Church??? DOES IT MATTER??? WE ARE PRAYING IN CATHOLIC AND ANGLICAN CHURCHES IN EUROPE. We are renting them, and use them for masses and then we leave.

Biboboy

The pic of the women praying in the church clearly shows that they are not praying in a Coptic Orthodox, Catholic, or Anglican church, where in all three cases there would be an altar and icons/stained glass windows/statues, all of which are clearly not present in the picture. It follows from this that the pic in the link I posted earlier of the women praying relates to the news story on Al-Ahram that this is a Presbyterian church.

The points I made still stand. You will NEVER find any Muslims praying inside an Orthodox, Catholic, or Anglican church because of the icons, or even because of the presence of a tiny cross!

Your reactions on this issue are simply unwarranted.

Timothym

Well guess what this is Egypts situation today, beggars can't be choosers. It's unfortunate but we can't think like they are in europe or the US. I'm not for it but on the bright side they are being respectful and they are praying. Where are the Christians praying? In Toronto, there's an Orthodox church which allows a Muslim man to come in and say his prayers, mind you it's in the hallway adjacent to the church and not within the nave itself.