Cut off the $1.3B in aid annually to Egypt, unless they bring to justice the kil

Ibrahim Ayad

Dear friends,

I wanted to let you know about a new petition I created on We the People, a 
new feature on WhiteHouse.gov, and ask for your support. Will you add your 
name to mine?  If this petition gets 25,000 signatures by December 10, 2011, 
the White House will review it and respond!

We the People allows anyone to create and sign petitions asking the Obama 
Administration to take action on a range of issues.  If a petition gets 
enough support, the Obama Administration will issue an official response.

You can view and sign the petition here:

http://wh.gov/buY

Here's some more information about this petition:

Cut off the $1.3B in aid annually to Egypt, unless they bring to justice the 
killers of the massacre
The Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church under the leadership of Pope 
Shenouda III met with seventy Bishops, on Monday October 10, 2011 in the 
Papal residence, Cairo, Egypt to discuss the...

minatasgeel

Ok. This has been happening for two long....why are we that stupid to believe that, even if we file this petition, this "1.3 B aid to Egypt" will be cut off?!
This will simply never happen.....not for the death of 23....heck not for the death of all of the COPTS and some muslims with them in Egypt. Other countries have Americans getting killed in them (numbers close to hundreds) and not one in america is consider cutting of aid to that specific country. What makes you think that an egyption, christian or muslim, is more important than an american?!

I feel like we are just barking from far away at the white house and those are in egypt to feel better........and yes, to just FELL BETTER.
NOTHING we do here in the states, as citizens or legal individuals, will effect those in Egypt.
The Pope and his meeting with the Synod never asked us, those who live outside egypt in the immigration land(s), to do ANYTHING other than pray and fast. Did he ask anything else of us?! In fact his holiness is against all kinds of help from America or any other country to make any changes in egypt. please correct me if I have said anything wrong

abrahamf

[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12555.msg147351#msg147351 date=1320977254]
Ok. This has been happening for two long....why are we that stupid to believe that, even if we file this petition, this "1.3 B aid to Egypt" will be cut off?!
This will simply never happen.....not for the death of 23....heck not for the death of all of the COPTS and some muslims with them in Egypt. Other countries have Americans getting killed in them (numbers close to hundreds) and not one in america is consider cutting of aid to that specific country. What makes you think that an egyption, christian or muslim, is more important than an american?!

I feel like we are just barking from far away at the white house and those are in egypt to feel better........and yes, to just FELL BETTER.
NOTHING we do here in the states, as citizens or legal individuals, will effect those in Egypt.
The Pope and his meeting with the Synod never asked us, those who live outside egypt in the immigration land(s), to do ANYTHING other than pray and fast. Did he ask anything else of us?! In fact his holiness is against all kinds of help from America or any other country to make any changes in egypt. please correct me if I have said anything wrong


Amen!

"Blessed is God! In our time as well martyrs have come forth, and we have been made worthy to see people sacrificed for the Lord Christ, people who shed their holy blood to irrigate the entire Church. We have been made worthy to see people, advocates of piety, who are victorious, who are crowned......and we now have these crowned ones among us." + St. John Chrysostom +

andrew8345

Why create another petition? Isn't there already one.

andrew8345

Mina:

While I agree with you that the U.S. couldn't care less what happens to Coptic Christians that doesn't mean our efforts are pointless. Just because they won't change the situation in Egypt doesn't mean we shouldn't continue.

I used to be the guy saying: "protests are stupid, blah , blah, blah"

However, I came to realize that the people in Egypt pay attention to this stuff. They watch those videos in Egypt of people protesting in America; they hear about the petitions; they know we are fighting for them. This gives them comfort. It makes them feel as if there brothers and sisters are hurting with them and are doing everything in their power to help. Of course, fasting and prayer are a must. The other things, while they may produce no change, at the very least bring comfort to those in Egypt.

minatasgeel

Andrew,

I am not against protests. I don't mind declaring ourselves to the Senate and Congress. We ought to be proud of being Copts. But that is simply to tell them that we are here, we know what is happening there and we are just bringing your attention to it. But for us to expect change to come from outside Egypt, that is absurd. The day that another country makes decisions for Egypt is the day that we lose Egypt as a free country. I am not saying that it is free and democratic but atleast it is free of any influences from outer countries.

andrew8345

Yeah I agree. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

Ibrahim Ayad

[quote author=Andrew link=topic=12555.msg147361#msg147361 date=1320984228]
Why create another petition? Isn't there already one.

Yes, but it got deleted

pharoh123

[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=12555.msg147351#msg147351 date=1320977254]
Ok. This has been happening for two long....why are we that stupid to believe that, even if we file this petition, this "1.3 B aid to Egypt" will be cut off?!
This will simply never happen.....not for the death of 23....heck not for the death of all of the COPTS and some muslims with them in Egypt. Other countries have Americans getting killed in them (numbers close to hundreds) and not one in america is consider cutting of aid to that specific country. What makes you think that an egyption, christian or muslim, is more important than an american?!

I feel like we are just barking from far away at the white house and those are in egypt to feel better........and yes, to just FELL BETTER.
NOTHING we do here in the states, as citizens or legal individuals, will effect those in Egypt.
The Pope and his meeting with the Synod never asked us, those who live outside egypt in the immigration land(s), to do ANYTHING other than pray and fast. Did he ask anything else of us?! In fact his holiness is against all kinds of help from America or any other country to make any changes in egypt. please correct me if I have said anything wrong


False, protests, letters, pressure on politicians will work. First, they give hope to Copts in Egypt, how do you think they would feel if they were out there dying while we sat on our couches? Trying is better than nothing.
Second, it CAN have an effect, if anything, it can get normal citizens talking. Just a few weeks ago, while protesting the Maspero incident, a local cop came up to me and told me that he had seen us protest before and that he actually thought we weren't doing enough here. I have read hundreds of editorials talking about the state of Copts and the need to cut aid. If anything, we are can aid this buzz.
Third, do not be disappointed with the response of the US government, the Obama administration has already proven it is not only useless on many grounds but it is only a supporter of Islamists, no good can come out of it. However, in the Netherlands and Canada, the governments have responded and there is hope.
All in all, I understand your frustration but trying is better than nothing, it gives some hope (however small it may) that things might one day get better.

minatasgeel

[quote author=pharoh123 link=topic=12555.msg147772#msg147772 date=1321798865]
False, protests, letters, pressure on politicians will work. First, they give hope to Copts in Egypt, how do you think they would feel if they were out there dying while we sat on our couches? Trying is better than nothing.
well what made us leave egypt in the fist place if we cared about it?!

Second, it CAN have an effect, if anything, it can get normal citizens talking. Just a few weeks ago, while protesting the Maspero incident, a local cop came up to me and told me that he had seen us protest before and that he actually thought we weren't doing enough here. I have read hundreds of editorials talking about the state of Copts and the need to cut aid. If anything, we are can aid this buzz.

the aid will never be cut for only the sake of , what is begin consider, 20% of the population.

Third, do not be disappointed with the response of the US government, the Obama administration has already proven it is not only useless on many grounds but it is only a supporter of Islamists, no good can come out of it.

when are we goona learn the the US just cares about itself more than anything else?! We don't care about others, only ourselves citizens of the United States of America. If it is better for us to be with the Ekwan ruling Egypt, than that's the path will take. Obama being muslim or not, doesn't care about religion. He is simply caring about himself and the states.

However, in the Netherlands and Canada, the governments have responded and there is hope.

And has that done anything? NOPE!!! people said it places pressure on the government....WHAT GOVERNMENT?! there is no government in egypt right now. everyone is seeking power while it is available. Egyptians themselves don't want freedom or democracy, what do you need more than that? 

All in all, I understand your frustration but trying is better than nothing, it gives some hope (however small it may) that things might one day get better.

Give hope with prayer, with fasting with actions directly towards those people in egypt and not through a petition that will go through hundreds of people and mean NOTHING!!!!

Unknown

As Christians, we must not be lazy, and we must perform our due diligence in seeking to help our brothers in egypt. It is incorrect for us to be passive. However, this course of action which we are taking is, as I believe, is getting a little extreme.

In my parish, there was a large meting in the church, where some random politicians were brought in. The MPs (which are like representatives of certain areas in Canada), the mayor and one city councilor. What are they going to do? What is the need for these people? The meeting lasted for 3 hours, and the result? Well, one guy stood up in parliament, and spoke about "condemning" the acts which occurred. But what does that mean to me? The entire population here was ecstatic, but I did not really care. Still nothing is going to change. I hav no doubt that the incidents which happened in Egypt are to be condemned, but did we need to protest to get the message across? In Gods house, we should lift up our hearts to him, not set up a table of representatives in the front of the church who will adress a congregation about their problems. Additionally, we do not fight only a political battle, but the islamists are growing in their ideology. We fight an ideology which no government can dismantle. Only the supreme lord can do so. We claim that we ask him, while we turn to useless politicians. "The Lord shall fight for you, and you shall hold your peace." (Exodus 14:14) If we want the mountain moved, we do not begin a scaled project on how to move it, but we ask the one who crated it to move. It is the same with this problem.

There was also a protest where 7500 copts took to the streets of Toronto. The 3rd in three years. If everyone of the people in the protest went into their inner rooms, and prayed intensely for the 5 hours which they were out protesting, I don't know what, but something would happen. The problem is, that parishes are giving these people the idea that the most important thing is to protest.

Facebook messages from my church were all about signing up for the elections (which is not a bad thing). In the church, and people were saying, "Come to the church quickly with your I.D. card and regster." And a message from the Parish Priest regarding this event was sent out, concerning the whole issue,  but in the whole message, NOT A WORD WAS MENTIONED ABOUT PRAYER. So, the congregation is led to accept that prayer is second-tier to protests, and political involvement. This priest quoted H.H. as saying that we need to take an active role in the safety of our country, but I guess he just "forgot" the may words of H.H., and ultimately the Bible on going to God for help from our problems.

As long as we only turn to God for a minute, then try to go fix the problem ourselves, God will not do anything. I think that God will watch us fail, then we acknowledge that were are helpless, he will step in. The quicker we realize that being OVERactive and OVERexpecting of mere mortals, the quicker the Pantokrator will step in.

ReturnOrthodoxy

pharoh123

I never said we should not pray. But you must act while asking God to guide you. If not, it is the equivalent of not studying and then praying to get an A+. It makes no sense. And we must care about Egypt, we left for a better life but we must still care for our home and our families who still live there. Moving to the West does not relieve you of all duty to help your brothers in need, that's ridiculous.
We must pray for guidance and help, applying international pressure on the Egyptian interim and military powers can work. Participating in the upcoming elections in Egypt is also important, simply praying that the Islamic parties don't win will not be sufficient; you must go out and vote, act, speak through God's guidance.