Is God to Blame?

Zoxsasi

Hello everyone,

I think this subject I'm about to raise is quite sensitive. Its sensitive for every Christian and Atheist alike.

Is God in control of our lives? If He is, does he allow bad things to happen? If He does allow them to happen, then is He to blame when they do happen?

Its a sensitive issue because many many people have suffered from things out of their control and felt that God was testing them, or that He had some involvement and could have prevented it.

What can I tell these people?

I answered one person who I've just met, and I know he has suffered greatly in life. I told him that I don't think that God puts on you bad things or wants bad things to happen to you - not at all, but your love for God should not change when bad things do happen.

I said it was like a marriage. If you are married to someone who loves you when you are poor and have no money, then when you are rich and do have something, you won't look at her as if she's just there for the good times.

We could even argue that Why did God allow Adam to eat from the Tree? Why did He create for him Eve who was to badly influence him?

If you look carefully at this story in Genesis, you will see that God chastised Eve for listening to the serpent, however, He chastised Adam for listening to his wife. What does this mean? Well, my 2 cents is that: Even though we are surrounded by people who love us, by those we trust, ultimately, this is a perfect example in putting one's trust in people and one's trust in God. In putting my trust in God MEANS that I should not make concessions on what He tells me. I HAVE TO BELIEVE that His advice (or commandments) IS BETTER FOR ME (i.e. its the BEST for me) than whatever ANYONE else tells me - even my wife, brother, sister or mother.

Indeed we are influenced by many things in life, yet we have to make the decision to trust in God's commandments.

So the question remains, if you have prayed for something (like protection) and something awful happens after you've prayed for it, what should you make of it? Is God testing you?

Joshuaa

We have free will, but we are to submit to God's will as it is rightous.

Joshuaa

Women like to relate and relating is like sharing, so eve gave Adam the apple. All done in innocence. Satans will decieved the inocence.

bigeee

we have the bible yes i know i should be one to talk but we make things more complacted then they should be for example if i see a guy who needs a doller on the street and i have my last doller i have to walk home a very long way and i give him the doller wont god reward me with something else?  very simple but the hardest thing to live by

Zoxsasi

[quote author=bigeee link=topic=12128.msg143444#msg143444 date=1313791905]
we have the bible yes i know i should be one to talk but we make things more complacted then they should be for example if i see a guy who needs a doller on the street and i have my last doller i have to walk home a very long way and i give him the doller wont god reward me with something else?  very simple but the hardest thing to live by


Bigee, please don't ruin my topic.

I meet loads of people that need answers to why bad things happen. I'm asking sincerely to see the wisdom available in here so that I can learn for my own benefit and help others.

andrew8345

The problem lies in that we try to judge what is good and bad from our very limited mind. It was this pride that caused man's separation from God. The fact that man thought he knew better than God did. Man desired to know what was good and bad. We never really know the answers to the question of what is good or bad.

When a young man develops cancer, is that bad? You respond: "Of course!" . . . But is it really? Only God knows. It could have saved him from becoming a wicked person because in his suffering he remembered God and repented.

Maybe the thing (cancer) is bad in and of itself, but for the person's salvation it might not be. And

The bottom line is: If it comes from God it is good. There is no question about it. We may think it is bad but we are limited and cannot foresee what God has planned.

In any case, this verse should be a good enough answer. It reminds us that even if there is a bad situation, that is nothing to our Lord who can make the best out of the worst.

[quote=Romans 8:28, NKJV]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

George_Mina_Awad

[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=12128.msg143428#msg143428 date=1313784725]
Well, my 2 cents is that: Even though we are surrounded by people who love us, by those we trust, ultimately, this is a perfect example in putting one's trust in people and one's trust in God. In putting my trust in God MEANS that I should not make concessions on what He tells me. I HAVE TO BELIEVE that His advice (or commandments) IS BETTER FOR ME (i.e. its the BEST for me) than whatever ANYONE else tells me - even my wife, brother, sister or mother.

Indeed we are influenced by many things in life, yet we have to make the decision to trust in God's commandments.

So the question remains, if you have prayed for something (like protection) and something awful happens after you've prayed for it, what should you make of it? Is God testing you?


I think I'm learning more and more that if there's anyone in life who won't disappoint, it's God. People are too flawed, and most aren't even making a conscious effort to do anything about it.

I don't have a big shpeel for the question this raises that you pointed out, but I think the answer would be yes.

epchois_nai_nan

Just some food for though, this is a brilliant, but fairly wordy article by an Orthodox theologian on the problem of evil.
http://davidbhart.blogspot.com/2006/03/david-b-harts-tremors-of-doubt.html

He goes into it in much more detail here:
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2008/05/tsunami-and-theodicy

Basically, his approach is this (from the second link):
"Christian thought has traditionally, of necessity, defined evil as a privation of the good, possessing no essence or nature of its own, a purely parasitic corruption of reality; hence it can have no positive role to play in God’s determination of Himself or purpose for His creatures (even if by economy God can bring good from evil); it can in no way supply any imagined deficiency in God’s or creation’s goodness."

"I do not believe we Christians are obliged -- or even allowed -- to look upon the devastation visited upon the coasts of the Indian Ocean and to console ourselves with vacuous cant about the mysterious course taken by God’s goodness in this world, or to assure others that some ultimate meaning or purpose resides in so much misery. Ours is, after all, a religion of salvation; our faith is in a God who has come to rescue His creation from the absurdity of sin and the emptiness of death, and so we are permitted to hate these things with a perfect hatred. For while Christ takes the suffering of his creatures up into his own, it is not because he or they had need of suffering, but because he would not abandon his creatures to the grave. And while we know that the victory over evil and death has been won, we know also that it is a victory yet to come, and that creation therefore, as Paul says, groans in expectation of the glory that will one day be revealed. Until then, the world remains a place of struggle between light and darkness, truth and falsehood, life and death; and, in such a world, our portion is charity."

(my emphasis)
God bless

dzheremi

I sure wish I had a sixth sense for where all you folks find these great Orthodox commentaries on every subject that comes up, so that I didn't have to just spew my ridiculous, non-Orthodox words all over the place, but anyway...  :-[

I can't say I've really thought of things in the way that you present them in the OP, Zoxsasi. It's an understandable mindset and question, but I don't know...when my mother passed on some 15 years ago, I was understandably very upset and wondering why someone who had so dedicated her life to loving and following God to the best of her ability would be made to die in such a horrible, painful and degrading fashion. It really seemed to me that rather than blaming God, I could at least be sure that it didn't really seem to matter what we do or how we live, as He would just do what He wanted anyway no matter how it affected the people around the one He decided to take (I should mention here that I was 14 years old, so my interpretation of what was going on was predictably self-centered).

As I got a bit older, I began to see things a little differently. What I had previously thought was a particularly cruel demonstration of God's capriciousness began to look an awful lot more like a testament to His mercy and His love. Thinking back on all the pain and suffering my dear mother suffered in the 18 months prior to her death, and all of the changes in my life that were affected and in some sense effected by her passing, I began to see how Our Lord comforted both her and me. I would be lying if I were to say that I'm happy that she's dead or anything even remotely like that, but now I can say that I am very much looking forward to seeing her, and what's more I thank and praise the Lord that in the time between right now and then He has shown me the way by which that may happen, in accordance with His will.

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose."