In Catholicism (especially Roman Catholic) there are many different religious order like Carthusian, Franciscan, Jesuit but the Coptic Orthodox Church does not have different order like that. Why not? and what exists in the Coptic Church?
[quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=11793.msg140933#msg140933 date=1309886336] There are no orders in the Coptic Church, per se, as in the Roman Catholic identification.
What imikhail alludes to is more "systems" of administration and life discipline. It is not quite the full aspect of "orders".
About the only definitive aspect to orders is: "monastic" vs. "parochial" (relating to parish). Even then, that is a broad framework. j why don't you have religious orders like the roman catholics? and in the roman catholic oders I know there are people from the eastern catholic churches. why not have it like that in the oriental monasteries?
An Eastern Orthodox friend of mine put it thusly: In Eastern monasteries (and I would suspect that this also applies to Oriental monasteries), as in Eastern monasticism, the entire focus is on prayer. Yes, there is physical labor, too, but there is prayer in that too (as the EO monks continue the Jesus prayer throughout their day, no matter what they're doing). So the idea of Catholic religious orders, many of which are secular and involve humanitarian-type jobs in the world (nurses, teachers, etc.) seems really strange and contrary to the idea of monasticism itself. I would agree with this general assessment. It was not until I made a point of visiting a Benedictine monastery that I actually saw Catholic monks being monks (praying, chanting, etc.), as opposed to the Dominicans and others I knew who basically lived in the world and were the same as anyone else, just with a few extra initials after their names.
Yes, I agree, but many of the religious orders exist because they were created to renew the monastic spirituality in the West. The original orders were all enclosed until the Franciscans, and teaching and service orders are even more recent.
So I am not sure why they are present in the West and not in the East. Perhaps it is because in the West the supreme and absolute authority of the Pope tended to produce a situation where central authority authorised monastic reforming movements, and so orders tended to develop. In the East it tended to be more charismatic.
I believe, at times, there were issues of frustration +/- corruption, +/- nepotism, +/- politics that would usher the incarnation of a new order in regard to fulfilling a need which had gone by the wayside.
I believe the aspect of orders in the RCC is not specific to monastic life exclusively, although it may be perceived that way by the East. Since matrimony is not allowed for any of the orders, celibacy may be equated with monasticism by the gloss over from an Eastern perspective. These are distinct aspects, and there is more of a division along parochial (parish and being in the world) and monasticism (eg, an order like the Benedictines).
It used to be that some of the Superiors of the Orders carried as much or even more power than the Roman Pontiff. Hence there are the aspects of the "White Pope" and the "Black Pope". The white pope denoted the Bishop of Rome (him wearing a white cassock), and the black pope denoted the Superior General of the Jesuit Order (him wearing a black cassock). The Jesuits, at one time, weilded so much power that authority and dictates came from the Superior General that were carried out even before the Roman Pontiffs wishes. The Jesuits ascribed the rise of their power by establishing their own schools, high schools, colleges, and universities to be able to influence the person from the point of nascence until the rise of adulthood, ie, brainwashing at its best.
Comments
Bakhumic,
Antonian,
Shenoudian
However the most prevalent today is the Antonian.
What imikhail alludes to is more "systems" of administration and life discipline. It is not quite the full aspect
of "orders".
About the only definitive aspect to orders is: "monastic" vs. "parochial" (relating to parish). Even then, that is a broad framework.
There are no orders in the Coptic Church, per se, as in the Roman Catholic identification.
What imikhail alludes to is more "systems" of administration and life discipline. It is not quite the full aspect
of "orders".
About the only definitive aspect to orders is: "monastic" vs. "parochial" (relating to parish). Even then, that is a broad framework.
j
why don't you have religious orders like the roman catholics? and in the roman catholic oders I know there are people from the eastern catholic churches. why not have it like that in the oriental monasteries?
So I am not sure why they are present in the West and not in the East. Perhaps it is because in the West the supreme and absolute authority of the Pope tended to produce a situation where central authority authorised monastic reforming movements, and so orders tended to develop. In the East it tended to be more charismatic.
That is a generalisation of course.
I believe the aspect of orders in the RCC is not specific to monastic life exclusively, although it may be perceived that way by the East. Since matrimony is not allowed for any of the orders, celibacy may be equated with monasticism by the gloss over from an Eastern perspective. These are distinct aspects, and there is more of a division along parochial (parish and being in the world) and monasticism (eg, an order like the Benedictines).
It used to be that some of the Superiors of the Orders carried as much or even more power than the Roman Pontiff. Hence there are the aspects of the "White Pope" and the "Black Pope". The white pope denoted the Bishop of Rome (him wearing a white cassock), and the black pope denoted the Superior General of the Jesuit Order (him wearing a black cassock). The Jesuits, at one time, weilded so much power that authority and dictates came from the Superior General that were carried out even before the Roman Pontiffs wishes. The Jesuits ascribed the rise of their power by establishing their own schools, high schools, colleges, and universities to be able to influence the person from the point of nascence until the rise of adulthood, ie, brainwashing at its best.
look at this. This seem to be the western version of the Coptic Hermitage. What do you Coptic people say about this?