[quote author=JG link=topic=11645.msg139831#msg139831 date=1308384233] I was merely making a general point; with regards to the topic at hand I don't really have an opinion.
General point? I was expounding on what you had said and used the topic at hand as an example. You cannot throw something the church fathers say because you feel it is irrelevant
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=11645.msg139844#msg139844 date=1308406634] [quote author=JG link=topic=11645.msg139831#msg139831 date=1308384233] I was merely making a general point; with regards to the topic at hand I don't really have an opinion.
General point? I was expounding on what you had said and used the topic at hand as an example. You cannot throw something the church fathers say because you feel it is irrelevant
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you or anyone on the topic at hand! I just wished to make a general point: that what the Fathers say is not always law, and that they may have variable opinions on subjects. That is all. I do not feel that this topic is irrelevant, nor do I think anyone's view on the matter is - I just don't have an opinion regarding it at the moment.
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=11645.msg139772#msg139772 date=1308329064] I am not exactly sure why it is necessary to hurl insults my way. I find it disgusting and offensive to see women approach the body of Christ while dressed in an immodest fashion. Tell me, when a woman dresses revealing and or in tight fitting clothing does she have more in common with out beloved Theotokos? It is common sense and to sit there an insult me saying I am trying to further some kind of agenda is absurd, what agenda am I trying to further, please enlighten me? Poor debating skills? What does this have to do with debating? I made a joke and Unworthy1 dug up an old post, and I am trying to further an agenda?
The conclusions you come to are conjecture, all you have done is accuse and insult with absolutely nothing to back up your accusations.
And I find it disgusting and offensive to see someone like you approaching the Body and Blood of Christ with such hatred and judgment in your heart. The heart of the law and the prophets is Love and Mercy, as Christ repeatedly stressed in the Gospels.
[li] 'Judge not lest ye be judged.'[/li] [li]'You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.'[/li] [li]'But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!'[/li]
[quote author=Κηφᾶς link=topic=11645.msg139864#msg139864 date=1308420360] + Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=11645.msg139772#msg139772 date=1308329064] I am not exactly sure why it is necessary to hurl insults my way. I find it disgusting and offensive to see women approach the body of Christ while dressed in an immodest fashion. Tell me, when a woman dresses revealing and or in tight fitting clothing does she have more in common with out beloved Theotokos? It is common sense and to sit there an insult me saying I am trying to further some kind of agenda is absurd, what agenda am I trying to further, please enlighten me? Poor debating skills? What does this have to do with debating? I made a joke and Unworthy1 dug up an old post, and I am trying to further an agenda?
The conclusions you come to are conjecture, all you have done is accuse and insult with absolutely nothing to back up your accusations.
And I find it disgusting and offensive to see someone like you approaching the Body and Blood of Christ with such hatred and judgment in your heart. The heart of the law and the prophets is Love and Mercy, as Christ repeatedly stressed in the Gospels.
[li] 'Judge not lest ye be judged.'[/li] [li]'You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.'[/li] [li]'But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!'[/li]
Ring any bells?
I feel sorry for you my friend. All you have done is insult me and condescend. I have said nothing outside of what is acceptable and Orthodox. I am merely explaining to my brother, by using examples, that there are topics that the church fathers discussed that certainly are more opinion, and ones that are not and how to discern that. Who am I judging? When someone brings another person to sin, that IS my business as it should be anyone elses. If you think it is acceptable to dress in a manner that would bring others to lust, than you do not have a firm grasp on Orthodox teaching. If that person does some other sin that does not have potential to affect me or others, that certainly is between him, God, and his FOC.
You are ignoring the church fathers and what St. Paul and St. Peter said. I am sure they would not find how some of these women dress as being "modest". Cast your stones my friend, cast them all you want, you are still wrong.
Comments
I was merely making a general point; with regards to the topic at hand I don't really have an opinion.
General point? I was expounding on what you had said and used the topic at hand as an example. You cannot throw something the church fathers say because you feel it is irrelevant
[quote author=JG link=topic=11645.msg139831#msg139831 date=1308384233]
I was merely making a general point; with regards to the topic at hand I don't really have an opinion.
General point? I was expounding on what you had said and used the topic at hand as an example. You cannot throw something the church fathers say because you feel it is irrelevant
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you or anyone on the topic at hand! I just wished to make a general point: that what the Fathers say is not always law, and that they may have variable opinions on subjects. That is all. I do not feel that this topic is irrelevant, nor do I think anyone's view on the matter is - I just don't have an opinion regarding it at the moment.
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=11645.msg139772#msg139772 date=1308329064]
I am not exactly sure why it is necessary to hurl insults my way. I find it disgusting and offensive to see women approach the body of Christ while dressed in an immodest fashion. Tell me, when a woman dresses revealing and or in tight fitting clothing does she have more in common with out beloved Theotokos? It is common sense and to sit there an insult me saying I am trying to further some kind of agenda is absurd, what agenda am I trying to further, please enlighten me? Poor debating skills? What does this have to do with debating? I made a joke and Unworthy1 dug up an old post, and I am trying to further an agenda?
The conclusions you come to are conjecture, all you have done is accuse and insult with absolutely nothing to back up your accusations.
And I find it disgusting and offensive to see someone like you approaching the Body and Blood of Christ with such hatred and judgment in your heart. The heart of the law and the prophets is Love and Mercy, as Christ repeatedly stressed in the Gospels.
Ring any bells?[li]
'Judge not lest ye be judged.'[/li]
[li]'You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.'[/li]
[li]'But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!'[/li]
+ Irini nem ehmot,
[quote author=Ioannes link=topic=11645.msg139772#msg139772 date=1308329064]
I am not exactly sure why it is necessary to hurl insults my way. I find it disgusting and offensive to see women approach the body of Christ while dressed in an immodest fashion. Tell me, when a woman dresses revealing and or in tight fitting clothing does she have more in common with out beloved Theotokos? It is common sense and to sit there an insult me saying I am trying to further some kind of agenda is absurd, what agenda am I trying to further, please enlighten me? Poor debating skills? What does this have to do with debating? I made a joke and Unworthy1 dug up an old post, and I am trying to further an agenda?
The conclusions you come to are conjecture, all you have done is accuse and insult with absolutely nothing to back up your accusations.
And I find it disgusting and offensive to see someone like you approaching the Body and Blood of Christ with such hatred and judgment in your heart. The heart of the law and the prophets is Love and Mercy, as Christ repeatedly stressed in the Gospels.
Ring any bells?[li]
'Judge not lest ye be judged.'[/li]
[li]'You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.'[/li]
[li]'But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!'[/li]
I feel sorry for you my friend. All you have done is insult me and condescend. I have said nothing outside of what is acceptable and Orthodox. I am merely explaining to my brother, by using examples, that there are topics that the church fathers discussed that certainly are more opinion, and ones that are not and how to discern that. Who am I judging? When someone brings another person to sin, that IS my business as it should be anyone elses. If you think it is acceptable to dress in a manner that would bring others to lust, than you do not have a firm grasp on Orthodox teaching. If that person does some other sin that does not have potential to affect me or others, that certainly is between him, God, and his FOC.
You are ignoring the church fathers and what St. Paul and St. Peter said. I am sure they would not find how some of these women dress as being "modest". Cast your stones my friend, cast them all you want, you are still wrong.