Theophany "coti emon" response

copticuser20

So i am not really sure what this is called but i call it the "coti emon" response.  We usually say "je aki ak coti emon" on annual days and for christmas we say avmacf and so on...

For The Feast of the Theophany, my alhan teacher (he knows a lot...he is our church moalim" says its "je ak oms ak" but every book i have seen says "je avechioms ak". which one is right?

minatasgeel

[quote author=copticuser20 link=topic=10468.msg127121#msg127121 date=1295152401]
So i am not really sure what this is called but i call it the "coti emon" response.  We usually say "je aki ak coti emon" on annual days and for christmas we say avmacf and so on...

For The Feast of the Theophany, my alhan teacher (he knows a lot...he is our church moalim" says its "je ak oms ak" but every book i have seen says "je avechioms ak". which one is right?

akichi-oms/afichi-oms is correct. Remenkimi or ophedace can comment on the specifics of the word.

ophadece

Ok, shiwms means to take baptism literally, and diwms to give baptism. Hence we may say awdiwms (was given the baptism and of course would be followed by mmof), but not awshiwms (was taken the baptism; the prefix shi makes it an intransitive verb). However, what we normally say is what Mina pointed out either AKshiwms or afshiwms (you took baptism, he took baptism, respectively)
OUjai

Remnkemi

[quote author=copticuser20 link=topic=10468.msg127121#msg127121 date=1295152401]
For The Feast of the Theophany, my alhan teacher (he knows a lot...he is our church moalim" says its "je ak oms ak" but every book i have seen says "je avechioms ak". which one is right?


Umm.. Depending on the preposition, "ak oms" means "you swam" or "you drowned". Definitely not what you want to say concerning Christ's baptism.

TITL

LOL! Good one Remnkemi  :D

kyrollos faheem

copticuser20, I'm assuming that you mean that he says "akchioms" at the end of the heteni's or the praxis response. He is right in the sense that that response is chanted at the heteni's or the praxis because the conclusion of these responses are talking to the God directly (2nd person). On the other hand, "afchioms" is supposed to be chanted at the end of any response that references Christ as a third person (e.g. the psalm response or the refrain to Psalm 150). The response to Psalm 150 is "Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was baptized in the Jordan." As one can see that Christ in this response is referenced as a third person, that is why you chant "afchioms" instead of "akchioms" as compared to the conclusion of the heteni's for example. The English translation of the conclusion to the heteni's is "We worship You (Christ referenced as a second person; grammatically speaking) O Christ, with Your good Father, and the Holy Spirit, for you have (risen / come) and saved us. Have mercy on us."

This distinction can also be seen in the Liturgies of Sts. Basil and Gregory during the Institution Narrative. In the liturgy of St. Basil, the priest chants "He, He blessed it, and He sanctified it." As one can see here thatn Christ is referenced as third person; grammatically speaking. In all of these cases the coptic translation is "Etafshep`hmot, Af`cmou `erof, and Afer`agiazin `mmof; respectively."

According to the liturgy of St. Gregory, the same can be seen; however, St. Gregory the Theologian writes the liturgy and refers to Christ as in the second person (e.g. You gave thanks (Etakshep`hmot, You blessed it (Ak`cmou `erof), and You sanctified it (Aker`agiazin `mmof); respectively). Notice the "f" changed into a "k" and same goes for the "afchioms" versus "akchioms."

copticuser20

nope. he just says and teaches "je ak oms ak" because it is shorter and flows...

minatasgeel

[quote author=copticuser20 link=topic=10468.msg128431#msg128431 date=1296086834]
nope. he just says and teaches "je ak oms ak" because it is shorter and flows...

none of the oral sources do this......yes it doesn't flow but it's literally done 3 days of the year (6 max).

TITL

These bots are getting funnier.

geomike

Tittl, this isn't a bot. Just because someone advertises doesn't mean he is a bot. Nobody can make a program ("bot") that will read posts and logically reply to it, this is just a person who is acting like he cares, but he is advertising by his "signature" at the bottom.

TITL

Oh. Ma bad.