Confession to a Catholic Priest

Zoxsasi

Concerning the sacrament of confession, I'd like to know if its permitted (OFFICIALLY) to confess to a Roman Catholic Priest - in the event that your own Coptic priests are unavailable or they don't even speak the same language as you to understand your confession.

Is confession to a Catholic priest allowed?

If not, then is it OK to have an RC priest as a spiritual father?

Thanks

jydeacon

You would need to talk to the bishop in your area, but from previous threads, if we do not consider their baptism legitimate, then the priesthood they have is not legitimate therefore your confession would not be to a leigitimate priest. Why go to catholics? Why not try other orthodox churches? In any case I doubt anyone will allow this even if the priests aren't that great in the language you speak.

Zoxsasi

[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=10269.msg125247#msg125247 date=1293127527]
You would need to talk to the bishop in your area, but from previous threads, if we do not consider their baptism legitimate, then the priesthood they have is not legitimate therefore your confession would not be to a leigitimate priest. Why go to catholics? Why not try other orthodox churches? In any case I doubt anyone will allow this even if the priests aren't that great in the language you speak.


Sorry, could you refresh my memory - i thought that their baptism, if performed correctly was legitimate - and if it was performed correctly, they only needed the Holy Chrism.

But the previous thread was about Holy Communion, not baptism. I thought from what Fr. Peter said was that Holy Communion was different than all other sacraments.

jydeacon

They do not baptize by submersion, they just sprinkle water on the person to be baptized and call it a day. That is not baptism.

Zoxsasi

[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=10269.msg125250#msg125250 date=1293128100]
They do not baptize by submersion, they just sprinkle water on the person to be baptized and call it a day. That is not baptism.


Not in all RC churches JY.

Some Communities do have full immersion.

Remember that story in our Church of a lady who baptised her son because he was about to die. The baptism of her son was accepted, and she was unable to rebaptise him again in Church when they were saved.

jydeacon

[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=10269.msg125252#msg125252 date=1293128577]
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=10269.msg125250#msg125250 date=1293128100]
They do not baptize by submersion, they just sprinkle water on the person to be baptized and call it a day. That is not baptism.


Not in all RC churches JY.

Some Communities do have full immersion.

Remember that story in our Church of a lady who baptised her son because he was about to die. The baptism of her son was accepted, and she was unable to rebaptise him again in Church when they were saved.


That was because she thought they were about to die, but it still wasn't sprinkling water. The Coptic church does not accept the RC sacrements. If the sacrements aren't accepted then you can't confess to a RC priest.

ilovesaintmark

The Sacrament of Confession is part of the Sacrament of the Eucharist.  They are intertwined.

Zoxsasi

OK.. I see.

How interesting.

Let's end this topic now before this thread develops into an argument

Pharaoh714

[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=10269.msg125250#msg125250 date=1293128100]
They do not baptize by submersion, they just sprinkle water on the person to be baptized and call it a day. That is not baptism.



This is completely false.


I cant find the article written by St. Cyril or an early saint that say.

There are 3 ways to baptize a person.

1. In running water  - ie - River  and He must be dipped 3x in the Name of the Father Son Holy Spirit.

2. If no running water is available a pool/tub etc.  and same 3 dips apply like example 1

3. If there is no running water or pool of water, the Priest may pray and sprinke the person 3x in the Name of Father Son H.S.



-- I wish I can find the book or the article--

jydeacon

The 3rd way to baptize is in the case the first two are not available. Not as a means to have it done all the time. At this point in time, I know that the COC does not accept the baptism of catholics. Almost every catholic that I've known coming into Orthodoxy has had to be re-baptised. Fr. Peter can confirm this or correct me if I am wrong.

dzheremi

When I was baptized into the RC, they did the pouring, not sprinkling. It's still not immersion (they only did that for infants, for some reason), but it's something other than the three on Pharaoh714's list. I don't know how widespread it is in the RC, though. All the other baptisms I witnessed during my years as a Catholic were of babies, so they were by immersion. I should think that anyone converting to the Orthodox Church would want to be re-baptized, anyway. I know that I would/do. Oddly, from what I understand of the RC viewpoint, while they do maintain that Orthodox baptisms are valid, no second baptism is accepted for a person previously baptized Catholic who later joins another church. So I suppose people in my position would both be validly and invalidly baptized, somehow...  ??? Oh, Rome...what did I ever see in you...  ::)

anba bola

Pharoah 714,

I think I found it

The Apostolic Constitutions say:

And concerning baptism thus baptize ye: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit in living water (running water). But if thou have not living water, baptize into other water; and if thou canst not in cold, in warm.  But if thou have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but thou shalt order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Zoxsasi

So basically, the RC's way of baptism IS valid.. the CoC doesn't accept it, but its valid.

The CoC affirms that the Catholic Church is a true Apostolic Church, yet it doesn't recognize her sacraments. That's ludicrous. You seem to accept Catholic marriages but not the Catholic Eucharist.

If you accept marriages, you must therefore accept their baptisms which was a pre-requisite for their marriage.

This is totally absurd.

If, hypothetically speaking, the Churches were to RE-Unite, HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, do you think the CoC will ask ALL Catholics to be re-baptised? Do you think they will change the wafer into bread? Not AT ALL!

If they are an apostolic church, their priesthood is valid. Their sacraments are valid. You just don't recognize them. That's all.

That's fantastic. I have all the information I need. Thank you.

Thanks Pharoah for your input.

peterfarrington

Orthodoxy knows nothing about 'validity'. This is a Roman Catholic concept. We know only whether a sacrament is accepted or not. And the Coptic Orthodox Church does not accept the Roman Catholic sacraments.

It is irrelevant whether or not a community may be called Apostolic or not. As I have said before, this only describes its origins. The Arian Church was Apostolic, and the Nestorian Church is Apostolic.

To accept marriage is not to accept sacraments. Marriage is a human institution which is blessed when it is celebrated as a sacrament. But it can be, and is everywhere, accepted as a human reality even when it is not a sacrament.

How can the priesthood of someone who has not been baptised be 'valid'? A Roman Catholic priest who became Coptic Orthodox would be baptised, chrismated, ordained a deacon and then ordained a priest.

I don't know what information you have, but you are mistaken if you think you have any authority to receive Roman Catholic eucharist, or Roman Catholic confession.

As a matter of fact, I do believe that the Roman Catholic Church would have to abandon the use of a wafer and return to its own ancient practice of using bread. I believe that it would also have to abandon the relatively late practice of baptising by affusion or aspersion and would have to return to its own ancient practice of baptism by immersion. These were all the ways the ancient Roman Church practiced the Faith. The present methods are relative novelties.

But it doesn't matter how our bishops consider the Roman Catholic Church at present. These issues will be discussed and dealt with in due course. What is clear is that no Copt may receive communion in a Roman Catholic Church, or marry a Roman Catholic, or receive confession in a Roman Catholic Church. This is the reality we must live with.

Father Peter

ilovesaintmark

There is the issue of Sacraments being administered by the Latin Church by deacons, i.e., baptism and marriage.  This being absurd since Nicea specifically forbids deacons from any Sacramental administration other than assisting.

I believe one would not only carry the tone of non-acceptance, but in the case of the deacon practices would make it invalid.  Deacons do not have the authority to invoke the Presence of the Holy Spirit.

In the United States, the deacon in the RCC has taken on considerable role to take the place of a decreasing and failing RCC priesthood.

George_Mina_Awad

[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=10269.msg125292#msg125292 date=1293195794]
It is irrelevant whether or not a community may be called Apostolic or not. As I have said before, this only describes its origins. The Arian Church was Apostolic, and the Nestorian Church is Apostolic.
Father Peter


But isn't this what confession is all about? If it is an Apostolic church, then weren't they also given the authority to absolve sins?

peterfarrington

If a Church founded by the Apostles ceases to be Orthodox then it no longer has any Orthodox sacraments.

Father Peter