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in the distribution psalm 150 is different to psalms. says praise God in his sanctuary not saints

Johnmakkar
in Coptic Orthodox Church
we have had a debate about the fact info the coptic church we say praise God in all his saints (sabeho asllah fi gamee3 kidiseeh) while the actual psalm in the bible and agpyia says praise God in his sanctuary.

I have had some answers which I will post at a later date but wondering if anyone knew why we have changed it. In Arabic bible and palms "fi kodsihee not kidiseeh"

Comments

  • ophadeceophadece
    Dear @johnmakkar,
    The reason is the Arabic translation of the Coptic psalm followed by the English translation of the Arabic one..
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    The answer is simple...just different translations. You are comparing liturgical text (Kholagi, psalmody...etc) to the Bible (which is prob SVD printed by the bible society) or agpeya (prob published by maktabit elmahabba...they don't have the same source. SVD translation does what NKJV did in using the Masoretic Hebrew text while liturgical prayers are from the Coptic handed down in the Church, translated from an LXX version...without getting critical of the Masoretic text. The Agpeya, and specifically the one done by maktabit elmahabba might of mixed and matched translations. Actually, any liturgical text that maktabit elmahabba publish should in no way be considered a source...almost all their texts are disastrous. Also, the agpeya in the format that we have today is kind of new. There aren't as much studies about this, but it used to be incorporated within the liturgical day....and because it was used a lot, few manuscripts were scribed for it.  
  • ophadeceophadece
    Hi @minatasgeel
    You said "... and because it was used a lot, few manuscripts were scribed for it." do you mean "not used a lot"?
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    @ophadece. Nope, i didn't make a mistake. That's one reason there isn't too many manuscripts of it. Manuscripts were very expensive to make and valuable for any Christian to have. So whoever made them for monasteries or churches, only included whatever was needed. So that's why a lot of manuscripts have tons of abbreviations or in the mention of psalms they would just put the beginning of the psalm or a prayer that priests were expected to memorize and know.

    One example: in almost all the services, there is a pauline and a psalm and gospel. most manuscripts just mention the reading...but what they don't mention is that with every Pauline, there is a hymn for the virgin (tai shori or tee shori or entho te tishori--they were all one hymn btw), there is a hymn for the patriarch (eaghapy, to makarios, timeet esnoti...etc), there is the Pauline Prayer for the priests (serr elbolos) with a full procession around the church. 
  • ophadeceophadece
    Thanks @minatasgeel.. I thought you were talking about ajbeya.. Now it's clear, thanks again
  • mabsootamabsoota
    in the original translation it is saints (male plural of the original word) and not holy places, which is the female plural. the septuagint manuscripts (used by orthodox churches) are older than the masoretic ones and more accurate.
    sometimes church publishers use non orthodox translations because they are readily available and this causes confusion as the original poster experienced.
    for more information, look at (or ideally buy) the orthodox study Bible. the paper version is beautiful and a great Christmas present to give (or request).
  • ophadeceophadece
    Wow @mabsoota thank you very much for this lovely piece of information..
    Oujai khan ebshois
  • mabsootamabsoota
    u should certainly get OSB, ophadece, u would enjoy it lots :-) 
  • ophadeceophadece
    Thanks for your advice.. I will definitely look for it.. 
    oujai qen P[c
  • minasolimanminasoliman
    edited November 2018
    As Mina said earlier, the NKJV uses the Masoretic. The Coptic sources and the OSB uses the LXX. The LXX uses “saints” and the Masoretic uses “sanctuary”.

    I would go further to say that both can be simply thought of as “holy” in the noun sense. Praise God in the “Holies”. Well, in the Old Testament, what was holy was the sanctuary, the tabernacle, etc. In Christ, he made us, flesh and bones, His sanctuary, His tabernacle, His “holy of holies”. So theologically, it makes sense that we now praise God in His saints. In fact, to not remember the saints is to indirectly reject the incarnation.

    So, praise God in His saints. ;)
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