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Efrahi ya Mariam, Cantor Ibrahim & other Cantors
Hi All,
I have a question to ask
in Efrahi ya Mariam, Cantor Ibrahim does not go high on the "wa sherobim" like other Cantors i.e. Farag, Gad etc. What do you think about this? Also, the order of the verses are different in some books. I think Cantor Ibrahim is basing the arabic on the coptic asbasmos & that's why he doesn't go high on the wa sherobim.
I have a question to ask
in Efrahi ya Mariam, Cantor Ibrahim does not go high on the "wa sherobim" like other Cantors i.e. Farag, Gad etc. What do you think about this? Also, the order of the verses are different in some books. I think Cantor Ibrahim is basing the arabic on the coptic asbasmos & that's why he doesn't go high on the wa sherobim.
Comments
Hi All,
I have a question to ask
in Efrahi ya Mariam, Cantor Ibrahim does not go high on the "wa sherobim" like other Cantors i.e. Farag, Gad etc. What do you think about this? Also, the order of the verses are different in some books. I think Cantor Ibrahim is basing the arabic on the coptic asbasmos & that's why he doesn't go high on the wa sherobim.
That is correct! Go with they way he does it.
[quote author=baladoos link=topic=11759.msg140572#msg140572 date=1309471040]
Hi All,
I have a question to ask
in Efrahi ya Mariam, Cantor Ibrahim does not go high on the "wa sherobim" like other Cantors i.e. Farag, Gad etc. What do you think about this? Also, the order of the verses are different in some books. I think Cantor Ibrahim is basing the arabic on the coptic asbasmos & that's why he doesn't go high on the wa sherobim.
That is correct! Go with they way he does it.
Yep, that's the right way. Check the Higher Institute recording of "Onof Emmo" (the Aspasmos in Coptic) and you'll see they don't go high either.
you only go high on "wal-sharoubim" in arabic and not in coptic.......i don't know why that is, but it's just is.
No, that's wrong. That's made up just like a lot of the other stuff in Arabic is made up and doesn't match the Coptic. For instance, the way you say "Erahmna Ya Allah Ya Dabet El Kol" is NOT the same as the Arabic "Eli son emas o theos o pantocrator." If you don't believe me, listen to it from any source. I'd actually be surprised if they say it the same way as they do the Coptic.
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=11759.msg140618#msg140618 date=1309524572]
you only go high on "wal-sharoubim" in arabic and not in coptic.......i don't know why that is, but it's just is.
No, that's wrong. That's made up just like a lot of the other stuff in Arabic is made up and doesn't match the Coptic.
oh. i am not saying otherwise.......there will always be criticism with the arabic.....arabic responses were not constructed (tarkeep) on the coptic.
do you mean ornaments-wise or translation-wise?
The Arabic was originally fitted onto the Coptic tunes but with "overuse", it started sounding different, and deviated hugely. Kmeka is right; part of the reason is the different syllables, with translation not necessarily following any poetic measures. Another is unlearned cantors with the green light to change hymns as they please coz no one cares to stop them. Another part is people not listening to each other, and just doing it their way. So some churches say it one way, others say it another, etc...
Oujai
Dear Mina,
The Arabic was originally fitted onto the Coptic tunes but with "overuse", it started sounding different, and deviated hugely. Oujai
i don't think that is true......just too far fetched. please provide a recording to prove this.
Oujai
I don't have one...
Oujai
:) :) :)
Oujai
That's because every one FITS the Arabic on the tune as they see FIT... hehe...
Oujai
Now that we've identified the problem, how do we fix it?
It is very true, that hymns are said differently among cantors. Also, different parts of Egypt say hymns in a different way.
i am not saying otherwise (also). but i don't agree with the concept that the arabic was originally constructed on the coptic and than with "overuse" changed to what we have now.........we just can't prove that.
[quote author=kmeka001 link=topic=11759.msg140733#msg140733 date=1309650819]
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=11759.msg140726#msg140726 date=1309643242]
That's because every one FITS the Arabic on the tune as they see FIT... hehe...
Oujai
Now that we've identified the problem, how do we fix it?
hahaha.....good luck with that. we can't even agree on the coptic (that is the original).....what will make us agree on the arabic. do you know how long it been since we started to standardize the english response here in the states?!!! tooo long...even after the Pope himself stepped in and said to specifically use something
In the Southern diocese we have standardized the liturgy hymns and few other hymns.
of course.....you have a bishop to force you to do so. for as much as that is good within the diocese, it is not for those outside and Church unity in general because you will not negotiate with those of the other dioceses and churches in general to use the same. what i am getting to is the concept of "this is the way i say things...you can either join me or not" and both will go their separate ways and nothing is accomplished.
We do have a bishop, H.G. Anba David. But technically His Holiness is in charge of the churches in the north east
and even when his holiness said to follow a specific way of saying the hymns, every church still does what it wants. but again, the pope is not holding it as a grudge.
In the Southern diocese, all the Churches follow the same way ... HBY made it very clear that the churches have to follow the diocese.
I am not sure what does the Pope have to do with singing hymns in unison.
The Pope here is our Bishop......
Very well. When you are blessed with a local bishop, things will improve.
hehe....but that's not gonna happen....
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11759.msg140778#msg140778 date=1309724841]
Very well. When you are blessed with a local bishop, things will improve.
hehe....but that's not gonna happen....
You never know
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=11759.msg140780#msg140780 date=1309725607]
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11759.msg140778#msg140778 date=1309724841]
Very well. When you are blessed with a local bishop, things will improve.
hehe....but that's not gonna happen....
You never know
not in my life time.....and i am YOUNG!!!
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11759.msg140795#msg140795 date=1309741511]
[quote author=minatasgeel link=topic=11759.msg140780#msg140780 date=1309725607]
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11759.msg140778#msg140778 date=1309724841]
Very well. When you are blessed with a local bishop, things will improve.
hehe....but that's not gonna happen....
You never know
not in my life time.....and i am YOUNG!!!
Miracles still happen.