Protestant Communion

PeteEbeid

I was just wondering .. we (as Orthodox) have communion (Eucharist), and the Catholics have communion ... but I never heard of Protestants having communion. Do they have communion if so what is it like.

Thanx

jfranklin

but I never heard of Protestants having communion. Do they have communion if so what is it like.

LOL... ;D


Yes,I'm happy to say that protestants do indeed celebrate communion.Some celebrate communion every week{church of Christ,etc}while others observe the "Lords Supper" monthly,etc. Some believe in the real presence of the Body and Blood;others view Holy Communion as symbolic.All{or nearly all...lol}partake in faith, remembering and thanking God for the precious sacrifice of His dear Son.Thanking Him for sending His only begotten Son to die for each and every one of us.

Unknown

So is their communion similar to the Catholics or it's not like it at all? I'm talking about the way it's given.

SaviourOfMySoul

protastens only practice two sacremnts right? i think its communion, and babtisim, or marriage or something like that its one of those three!

Maria

Maz

Nah you guys.. I don't think so.. I think you're rite though SaviourofmySoul. Yea i think it's only baptism and marriage. lol. I don't think they celebrate Communion, sadly. And so they certainly do not believe that the body and blood of Christ is present on the altar! Apparently it's because they believe that the Lord said "Remember me..." not "Do this in remembrance of me.."
That's as far as my knowledge goes, but I could be wrong.
Pray for me..
Maz

Unknown

protestants take communion i never knew that

Unknown

how about lutherin i went to a lutherin school in 3rd grade and i don't remember them takin communion

SaviourOfMySoul

Protestant Eucharistic theology
The various Protestant traditions hold differing views of the Eucharist.

Like the Roman Catholic and Orthodox, Lutherans subscribe to the doctrine of the Eucharistic Real Presence, believing that the bread and wine truly become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. They do not endorse any particular view of how this takes place, and regard attempts to explain how the Eucharist "works" in terms of philosophical metaphysics as disrespectful of the Sacrament's miraculous and mysterious character. In order to describe the Real Presence, Lutherans sometimes say that the body of Christ is "in, with and under" the bread and wine. Non-Lutherans sometimes describe the Lutheran doctrine as consubstantiation, but this is incorrect because, like transubstantiation, consubstantiation is rejected by Lutherans as a misguided attempt to philosophically categorize a divine mystery. Their refusal to endorse such explanatory doctrines, particularly transubstantiation, is sometimes interpreted by non-Lutherans as denial of the Real Presence.
Most Reformed do not teach that the bread and wine are transformed, but that those who receive the elements with faith are brought into a spiritually real form of fellowship with Jesus Christ.
The Anglican church tolerates a wide range of views on the nature of the Eucharist, from transubstantiation to symbolic memorialism.
Most other Protestant churches see the Lord's Supper as a commemoration of the sacrifice of Jesus, in which the physical elements have a purely symbolic and memorial value, reminding partakers of his salvific work.

i got all of that out of the encylopidea! :) sad but true, anyways it is apparent that they do practice communion, but the luthirins are on the right track, while non luthren protastants believe it is just symbolic ! :) i hope that helps !

Maria

Unknown

What about the mary magdelene thing? It's believed that the blood of Christ is in Mary Magdelene and not the chalice but ofcourse that's nothing but blasphemy. Does that belief belong to any protestant church or is it heresy to all?

SaviourOfMySoul

thats not true ! at all, the whole the womb of Mary being the chalice i am pretty sure refers to mary the mother of Jesus! remember she had christ inside her she had GOD inside here in here womb! i dunno about mary magdalen holding the blood christ not the chalice ...i dunt even understand that

Maria

Unknown

no, There is a belief that Christ had an affair with Mary Magdelene and they had a daughter named Sarah and that instead of Christ's blood being in the chalice it's in Mary Magdelene. Ofcourse it's blasphemy but I was wondering if any protestant church accepts that belief.

jfranklin

Ofcourse it's blasphemy but I was wondering if any protestant church accepts that belief.

No Christian Church whether Orthodox,Catholic,
Evangelical,Protestant,etc. accepts this blasphemous belief.It has more in common with ancient Gnosticism than with Bible believing,God fearing Christianity.Protestantism is base soley on the Bible.It would never accept such a doctrine or teaching since it relys on non-biblical sources.To do so would be against the very nature of Protestant thought...lol... :)

Nah you guys.. I don't think so.. I think you're rite though SaviourofmySoul. Yea i think it's only baptism and marriage. lol. I don't think they celebrate Communion, sadly.

Where do you guys get all your information...lol...Of course Protestants celebrate communion!And yes they do so in "remembrence of Jesus" just as He commanded.Many different groups believe in the "real presence of the Body and Blood"{not just the Lutherans,Anglicans,etc....lol}.

So is their communion similar to the Catholics or it's not like it at all? I'm talking about the way it's given.

It would be difficult to explain it...lol ;D
Seriously,itis different from the Catholics in some ways.Protestants recieve both the Body and Blood.The form is based on the Biblical accounts{no alters,etc.whatever is not in Gods Word is not used}usually accompanied by the Scriptures that explain Holy Communion and with prayer and a time of reflection,repentance,etc.The Bible says we need to examine ourselves carefully before we take communion in order not to partake in manner unbecoming Christ.Thats why there is a need for personal reflection,etc. In some churches everyone partakes of one chalice while in churches that view Communion in a more symbolic way they have seperate cups{very small}that are passed out on a tray served by deacons.Then everyone at the same time{after prayer,scripture,reflection}partakes of the Lords supper.


I hoped my explanation helped you understand a little better. :)

Unknown

The form is based on the Biblical accounts{no alters,etc.whatever is not in Gods Word is not used}

Come on J...

Alters upon which the sacrafice is made, is not in God's word? Really?

Let me guess what you mean by "etc." - im assuming you deny the office of the priest who enacts the sacrafice as well? This is also not in God's word? Are you sure?

Lets not forget that Christians worshipped the Lord and partook in the Eucharist way before the New Testament was ever fully compiled - I wander how they worshipped, and I wander how they knew how to do so in the first place...ah, the magic T word.

Many different groups believe in the "real presence of the Body and Blood"{not just the Lutherans,Anglicans,etc....lol}.

'Many' relative to what? Majority of Protestantism does not regard the divine presence in the Eucharist, hence "few" believe.

Its funny how so many variations of doctrine exist in the only sect of Christianity that claims "sola scripture", from sound doctrine to the most absurd, on issues both major/essential and minor/peripheral.

mmatt95

an orthodox view on the use of the holy altar by HH:

(1) There is a New Testament Altar.
(2) This altar did not end by the ending of the Old Testament.
(3) The altar continues.
(4) There is a holy sacrifice
(5) The holy sacrifice is not just a mere symbol or a
commemoration.

THE PRESENCE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT ALTAR
[1] Saint Paul Mentions The New Testament Altar
(Heb 13:10) We have an altar from which those who serve the
tabernacle have no right to eat.
The tabernacle servants are the Jews... i.e. the Jews who
remained as Jews, have no authority no write to partake of the
Christian altar.
[2] The Book Of Isaiah Prophesied About The Christian
Altar, Especially The Altar Of Egypt
(Isa 19:19-21) In that day there will be an altar to the LORD
in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the LORD at
its border. {20} And it will be for a sign and for a witness to
the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the
LORD because of the oppressors, and He will send them a
Savior and a Mighty One, and He will deliver them. {21} Then
the LORD will be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians will know
the LORD in that day, and will make sacrifice and offering;
yes, they will make a vow to the LORD and perform it.
It is obvious that such altar to the Lord could not be a
pagan altar
The emphasis of calling this altar "altar of God" was repeated at
least 10 times through the chapter.

Also the prophecy concludes
(Isa 19:25) whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying,
"Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My
hands, and Israel My inheritance."
This verse is aimed at the Christian altar of Egypt, which is not
any way connected to any pagan worship.
It is also obvious that such altar could not be a Jewish altar
This altar cannot be Jewish, as the Jews were not allowed to
offer a sacrifice nor have an altar outside Jerusalem.
(Psa 137:1-4) By the rivers of Babylon, There we sat down,
yea, we wept When we remembered Zion. {2} We hung our
harps Upon the willows in the midst of it. {3} For there those
who carried us away captive asked of us a song, And those who
plundered us requested mirth, Saying, "Sing us one of the
songs of Zion!" {4} How shall we sing the Lord's song In a
foreign land?
Also the Lord ordered the Jews out of Egypt to offer sacrifice
and worship.
(Exo 8:20) And the LORD said to Moses, "Rise early in the
morning and stand before Pharaoh as he comes out to the
water. Then say to him, 'Thus says the LORD: "Let My people
go, that they may serve Me.
(Exo 9:1) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go in to Pharaoh
and tell him, 'Thus says the LORD God of the Hebrews: "Let
My people go, that they may serve Me.

Also Pharaoh promised;
(Exo 8:29) Then Moses said, "Indeed I am going out from you,
and I will entreat the LORD, that the swarms of flies may
depart tomorrow from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from
his people. But let Pharaoh not deal deceitfully anymore in not
letting the people go to sacrifice to the LORD."
So It was not feasible to have a Jewish altar in Egypt
We observe that God commanded that no sacrifice is to be
offered except in the place of His selection, which would be
called after His Name.
(Deu 12:11) "then there will be the place where the LORD
your God chooses to make His name abide. There you shall
bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings, your
sacrifices, your tithes, the heave offerings of your hand, and all
your choice offerings which you vow to the LORD.
(Deu 12:26) "Only the holy things which you have, and your
vowed offerings, you shall take and go to the place which the
LORD chooses.
(Deu 26:2) "that you shall take some of the first of all the
produce of the ground, which you shall bring from your land
that the LORD your God is giving you, and put it in a basket
and go to the place where the LORD your God chooses to
make His name abide.

The Lord Has Selected Jerusalem.
(2 Chr 6:6) 'Yet I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name may
be there; and I have chosen David to be over My people
Israel.'
(Zec 3:2) And the LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke
you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!
Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?"
Hence we see that the prophecy of Isaiah is pertaining to the
Christian altar of Egypt.
[3] Also Malachi Prophesied That God Will Reject The
Jewish Sacrifice And Will Accept A Sacrifice From The
Other Nations (the Gentiles).
(Mal 1:10-11) "Who is there even among you who would shut
the doors, So that you would not kindle fire on My altar in
vain? I have no pleasure in you," Says the LORD of hosts,
"Nor will I accept an offering from your hands. {11} For from
the rising of the sun, even to its going down, My name shall be
great among the Gentiles; In every place incense shall be
offered to My name, And a pure offering; For My name shall
be great among the nations," Says the LORD of hosts.
This prophecy was fulfilled during the Christian era. Before
Christianity there was no other godly worship other than the
Jewish.
[4] The Lord Jesus Spoke About The Christian Altar
(Mat 5:23-24) "Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar,
and there remember that your brother has something against
you, {24} "leave your gift there before the altar, and go your
way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and
offer your gift.
The Lord Jesus did not limit His teaching to the Old Testament
but also His teaching extends to the New Testament. Otherwise
His words were only applicable for 3 and a third years.

rest of the book about priesthood, the altar and more under the following link:

http://tasbeha.org/content/hh_books/Priesthd/index.html

i hope we can continue this discussion in a Christian way with regards of feelings of others

Unknown

I was going to wait for J's replies before showering him with Biblical verses, looks like Hos Erof beat me to it. Lets now look at the early patristic quotes concerning the issue of priesthood and the altar in relation to the Eucharist from the 1st to the 4th century (a period where oral tradition would have played a signficant role in shaping the true faith of the early Apostolic church):

Clement of Rome, wrote in the 1st century about those "from the episcopate who blamelessly and holily have offered its sacrifices" (A.D. 80 - Letter to the Corinthians 44:1)

Ignatius of Antioch: "Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one Body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his Blood, and one single altar of sacrifice—even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God" (A.D. 110 Letter to the Philadelphians 4).

Cyprian of Carthage: "If Christ Jesus, our Lord and God, is himself the high priest of God the Father; and if he offered himself as a sacrifice to the Father; and if he commanded that this be done in commemoration of himself, then certainly the priest, who imitates that which Christ did, truly functions in place of Christ" (A.D. 253 Letters 63:14)

Ambrose of Milan: "We saw the prince of priests coming to us, we saw and heard him offering his blood for us. We follow, inasmuch as we are able, being priests, and we offer the sacrifice on behalf of the people. Even if we are of but little merit, still, in the sacrifice, we are honorable. Even if Christ is not now seen as the one who offers the sacrifice, nevertheless it is he himself that is offered in sacrifice here on Earth when the body of Christ is offered. Indeed, to offer himself he is made visible in us, he whose word makes holy the sacrifice that is offered" (A.D. 389 - Commentaries on Twelve Psalms of David 38:25).

John Chrysostom: "When you see the Lord immolated and lying upon the altar, and the priest bent over that sacrifice praying, and all the people empurpled by that precious blood, can you think that you are still among men and on earth? Or are you not lifted up to heaven?" (A.D. 387 The Priesthood 3:4:177).

"Reverence, therefore, reverence this table, of which we are all communicants! Christ, slain for us, the sacrificial victim who is placed thereon!" (A.D. 391 Homilies on Romans 8:8).

"‘The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not communion of the blood of Christ?’ Very trustworthy and awesomely does he [Paul] say it. For what he is saying is this: What is in the cup is that which flowed from his side, and we partake of it. He called it a cup of blessing because when we hold it in our hands that is how we praise him in song, wondering and astonished at his indescribable gift, blessing him because of his having poured out this very gift so that we might not remain in error; and not only for his having poured it out, but also for his sharing it with all of us. ‘If therefore you desire blood,’ he [the Lord] says, ‘do not redden the platform of idols with the slaughter of dumb beasts, but my altar of sacrifice with my blood.’ What is more awesome than this? What, pray tell, more tenderly loving?" (A.D. 392 Homilies on First Corinthians 24:1(3).

jfranklin

'Many' relative to what? Majority of Protestantism does not regard the divine presence in the Eucharist, hence "few" believe.

Yet there are millions and millions of christians who do believe in the"real presence".The "church of Christ" with a membership of several million is one such group.There are many other churches{pentecostal,evangelical,etc.}that also believe in "the real presence" as well. I daresay they number in the millions.


First of all I was responding to someone who asked about protestant communion.Being an evangelical christian I gave a simplified answer trying to help her undestand protestant worship a little better.It was her question and I tried to answer it.I didnt say the worship was right or wrong nor did I denigrate Coptic Orthodox worship in anyway. So whats your problem....why do you feel like you have the right to attack every post I make.My posts are not directed towards you Iqbal.So I would appreaciate some common courtesy,some christian charity if you dont mind.Maybe you enjoy arguing but I certainly do not and as I stated previously I will not engage you in pointless debate.I can list scriptures all day in support of my position,etc. but in the end, it will prove absolutely nothing since you are set in your position just as I in mine.Dont you have anything better to do with your life than to constantly argue with people? You argue with everyone,over the silliest things.Its quite unbecoming a christian.

Unknown

So whats your problem....why do you feel like you have the right to attack every post I make.My posts are not directed towards you Iqbal.

J, threads are not a one to one private dialogue - its irrelevant who you directed your post to. I never interpreted your comments as an attack, I simply did not agree with them, and hence I felt the need to post my point of view for others to see - are you saying I dont have this right? If your going to get all upset, every time I post a view in opposition to yours, than we cannot have healthy dialogue.

You made a comment that altars and priests, which are essential to Orthodox liturgy and the enactment of the Eucharist, are "not in God's word", I felt the need to show everyone that they are replete in God's Word, and were fundamental to the first 4 centuries of early Christian worship. Why does this upset you?

As for my comment you chose to selectively respond to, again, my point remains intact. RELATIVELY speaking, within the Protestant sect, those who believe in the divine presence are FEW. This is simply a fact.

J, please take it easy, and deal with correction like a man, and not a 12 year old - there is no need to get upset, the scriptures exhort me to correct, rebuke, etc etc you know that.

PeteEbeid

OK so Protestants have communion ... but how is it administered without the person in the priesthood (like the Priest, Bishop, etc) .. who administers it and what is the Eucharist like (a wafer, bread, obviously the wine is wine.)

jfranklin

J, please take it easy, and deal with correction like a man, and not a 12 year old - there is no need to get upset, the scriptures exhort me to correct, rebuke, etc etc you know that.

I know I'm a man but am not quite sure about you...lol...I know you certainly dont act like a christian.Its one thing to exhort,rebuke,etc but quite another thing to spew forth venom in a spirit of intolerance and hate.I think there is more than enough evidence from your previous posts to verify the accuracy of this accusation.I dont mind having intellectual debate with someone possessing integrity and christian character but you've shown in the past that you are incapable of honest theological dialogue.Your main interest and goal is to be proven right{in everything} no matter what the cost and what tactics have to be used, thus you engage in personal viotrol and character assassination,etc..In this you do indeed act like a young child...lol...


My main purpose here on this forum is to encourage and help my dear christian brothers and sisters in any way that I possiblly can, in all christian love and fellowship; while it is evident that your agenda is to promote strife,anger,etc wherever and however you can.Why dont you use your energies for positive,contructive activities instead of seeking to tear down those seeking christian love and unity.

Unknown

J

Obviously the truth has angered you so much, that you have to resort to this ad hominem attack to try and save face. I urge everyone to refer to page one of this particular thread, to the very posts of mine which were a response to J's ignorance, and I would like someone to please point out where in my posts I have, in J's very own words,

"engaged in personal viotrol and character assassination,etc"

J does the truth hurt you? I never attacked you, what is wrong with you? What are you crying about? This is the format of our dialogue so far:

- J speaks falsehood concerning the altar and priesthood
- Iqbal responds to J's comments, challenging his comments, not his person.
- Hos Erof provides Biblical proof
- Iqbal provides Patristic proof
- J cries
- Iqbal tell J to stop crying
- J resorts to ad hominem

You truly are a kid. Over and over again, you have proven youself incapable of addressing the substance, and attacking the person.

I wait for someone to quote me any one statement that I have made in response to J in the previous page, which justifies his amateurish and childish response, evasion of the argument, and attack of my person.

jfranklin

OK so Protestants have communion ... but how is it administered without the person in the priesthood (like the Priest, Bishop, etc) .. who administers it and what is the Eucharist like (a wafer, bread, obviously the wine is wine.)

I would like to go into more detail on the subject and help you understand a little more how "protestants" celebrate the Lords Supper but am afraid the "expert" Iqbal would be upset.I quess since he knows everything and is an "expert" on "protestantism" I better let him tell you what you need to know.Since he grew up in that enviroment and since he's an "expert"...lol...I think I'll let him continue to post outdated and false statements about the current state of Protestantism and other branches of non-orthodox christianity.His commentary is about as reliable as if I pretended to be an "expert" on Coptic Christianity...lol...

jfranklin

J cries

Hardly...lol... You better wipe off those tears Iqbal...I know in one of your posts you admitted to being as ugly as your "rear end" ...maybe thats why you act the way you do,trying to overcompensate for supposed inadeaqacies. Find yourself a wife, man! Have children! Be a real man and stop all of this foolishness...lol...Uh oh I made little Iqbal mad he's typing again...lol

Unknown

I would like to go into more detail on the subject and help you understand a little more how "protestants" celebrate the Lords Supper but am afraid the "expert" Iqbal would be upset.

J its obvious that the only who has been hurt by this whole process is yourself. Its obvious your incapable of dealing with correction and criticism. Lets remind our readers why you're crying again - you made a statement that altars and priests are not in God's Word, I challenged the statement, to prove that it indeed is replete in God's Word, and was fundamental to early Christianity which was shaped NOT by the written word, which was yet to be fully compiled and properly circulated, but rather by the oral words of the apostles.

Talk about Protestantism all you want, but if you're going to keep crying everytime I present the Orthodox view in opposition, and correct your fallacies, then yes it is best you refrain from doing so - Im not just going to sit back and let speak falsehood for the sake of making you feel uncomfortable, because you're not man enough to deal with a refutation properly.

I think I'll let him continue to post outdated and false statements about the current state of Protestantism

The only statement i have made with regards to Protestantism, is that THE MAJORITY DISREGARD THE DIVINE PRESENCE. Are you challenging me with regards to this J? lol Are you serious buddy, or are you just in denial? Id like some evidence to support your charge that this is an outdated claim - what date exactly did the circumstances change J? According to what sources J?

Btw the way J, the more "lol"'s you chuck into a post, the more childish and incapable you present yourself. Im still waiting for an apology on your unustified resort to ad hominem - Im waiting for you to quote any one statement from my initial responses to you, in which i attacked your person or character, you self-righteous hypocrite.

And please, answer me like a man, and learn to address me directly like a man as well.

jfranklin

You truly are a kid. Over and over again, you have proven youself incapable of addressing the substance,

I can paste 10 pages of material from evangelical websites.I can do it all day long...lol...But I'm mature enough to realize that this is a coptic website and would cause hurt,strife,etc.this is the last thing I wish to do.The only person I have any greivance with is you Iqbal...in truth I'd like to kick your ***...lol...Im sick of your foolishness.Always wanting to argue.No matter who its with.

Unknown

Hardly...lol... You better wipe off those tears Iqbal...I know in one of your posts you admitted to being as ugly as your "rear end" ...maybe thats why you act the way you do,trying to overcompensate for supposed inadeaqacies. Find yourself a wife, man! Have children! Be a real man and stop all of this foolishness...lol...Uh oh I made little Iqbal mad he's typing again...lol

Thank you J for exposing yourself. So there you have it ladies and gents, mr J feels the need to talk trash to save face, because he is incapable of admitting error when it is exposed and simply attacks the character and person of his opposition like an irrational kid.

keep responding J, you couldnt embarass yourself enough. You've fallen into the trap once again - maybe you would like to resort to racism as you did a while ago - remember, when you were so angered by the truth of Orthodoxy as I presented it, that you ended up trashing the whole Egyptian race.

So once again, J falls into the claws of his own words and has

"engaged in personal viotrol and character assassination,etc"

keep up the good work J.

Orthodoxy forever, blessed be the revered altar of the Lord upon which His holy body is sacraficed by the priest on behalf of the people - just as He intended according to His Word, both written and oral.

Unknown

The only person I have any greivance with is you Iqbal...in truth I'd like to kick your ***...

Keep it up J, you're doing well. Your self-righteousness and hypocricy is being exposed even more.

But please settle down, the truth is not supposed to anger you, its supposed to set you free. No need to use foul language, and resort to childish rants and "lol's" - its not cool J, believe me.

jfranklin

Im waiting for you to quote any one statement from my initial responses to you, in which i attacked your person or character, you self-righteous hypocrite.

Go back and read your many,many posts.There are countless examples where you attacked me personally,etc.What about your little tirade,your ranting and raving like a madman when you sent me that instant message,eh.By the way I refused to respond to your hate filled speech if you remember...lol..{Sorry for using lol mighty Iqbal}.Your the only self righteous hypocrite here thats why your constantl argueing with everyone.I'm certainlynot the only one you've launched a personal vendetta against.You picked the wrong dude to mess with though.

Unknown

can paste 10 pages of material from evangelical websites.I can do it all day long...lol..

Yeah, thats typical, just like Muslims - all they can do is paste from websites. They lack the ability to dispassionately and objectively do their own research, and use their own reason and rationale to draw their own conclusion and discuss it using their own words.

Unknown

Go back and read your many,many posts.There are countless examples where you attacked me personally,etc.

We may have had an ugly past, but your self-righteousness and hypocricy astounds me. Unlike you, ive never resorted to using foul language, or racism, as you yourself have.

Furthermore, what does the past have to do with anything? You made a statement in this thread, a false statement, concerning a theological issue - I corrected you, and you want to bring up the past to try and save face - a past in which you said much uglier things than I would ever think of saying?

J, keep responding brother, you're making it too easy to expose you.

Unknown

Your the only self righteous hypocrite here thats why your constantl argueing with everyone.

How am I self-righteous hypocrite? Where have I ever, as you have done, accused anyone of being un-Christian (i.e. implying that I myself am Christian) or told them how to behave like a Christian, only to turn around and do the exact opposite, as you have clearly done in this thread?

Seriously, the things I have to deal with...unbelievable J.

Again, lets remind ourselves...all this nonsense simply because J cant handle the fact that the altar and priesthood are biblical concepts practised by the early church which had direct contact with the Apostles themselves.

This is desparation at its worst.

jfranklin

No need to use foul language

LOL...I dont consider*** a bad word really.It just another word for "rear end".

No I think people can judge me on previous posts,statements,etc. JUST AS THEY'VE SEEN HOW YOU'VE ACTED TOWARDS ME AS WELL AS OTHERS.Constantly harrassing people with whom you disagree.Constantly belittling those who refuse to engage in your endless debate. Ill let my posts and christian conduct stand next to yours anyday.One thing though I will admit is that I am human and if a person pushes me too far I will bite back

All you do is cause strife.If its not arguing with me about every topic under the sun your jumping on your own people{take ILOVESAINTMARK as an example}.Its just unbelievable how the administrators here allow you to engage in such conduct.