imikhail
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Please refer to this link, it has the answer to your question http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,13529.msg157707.html#msg157707
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Ramzy, If I am following your argument .. You are saying that the Chalcedonian version is more authentic because the Coptic mixes the Trinity with the Son. In response, I showed you that this is irrelevant as we have hymns that addresses the Son t…
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This is a different situation from the one present in the Trisagion as it stands now in the non-Chalcedonian Churches, where we address the Son throughout the hymn (Holy God who was born of the Virgin...etc), and then suddenly and without any transi…
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the hymn itself as it stands now in our liturgical tradition has very clear Trinitarian elements. The last verse is the Trinitarian doxology (Doxa Patri...etc.), followed by Agia Trias eleyson emas, are very clearly Trinitarian. This seems to me to…
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[quote author=PFM link=topic=13535.msg158540#msg158540 date=1344223892] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13535.msg158531#msg158531 date=1344220274] [quote author=Joshuaa link=topic=13535.msg158528#msg158528 date=1344219987] That is what I'm sayin…
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[quote author=Severian link=topic=13598.msg158530#msg158530 date=1344220193] Well, in case you did not know any better... Copts like all Oriental non-Chalcedonian Orthodox (Syrians, Armenians, Ethiopians, etc.) believe we are THE Orthodox Church. S…
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[quote author=Joshuaa link=topic=13535.msg158528#msg158528 date=1344219987] That is what I'm saying PFM. That is why I asked the quesion, would a monk defend with pride or keep his position and offer it?If he is keeping his position, then he is no…
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Martha, I identify with your experience and unfortunately your experience is a recurring theme in the Coptic Church throughout the land of immigration. I suppose this is happening because the Coptic Church is still young in America. We are trying…
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[quote author=Joshuaa link=topic=13535.msg158523#msg158523 date=1344212150] Truth is not perfected by pride as pride does not bring people together. Pride is not love. Pride says I belong to the Coptic Orthodox Church and I will use our truth to n…
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Dear Fr. Peter, Please, do not take this as confrontational or contradicting what you are saying. Although the Byzantine family of Orthodox churches understand the Trisagion as a Trinitarian hymn, it is understood by the Oriental family Orthodox…
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13535.msg158495#msg158495 date=1344110898] It would surely depend on the priest? If he was educated in the variety of uses of the Trisagion then he might either choose to sing as he was accustomed, or choose to…
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13535.msg158478#msg158478 date=1344067223] I dont believe any of these fathers refer to the Trisagion hymn. I think imikhsil is confusing reference to the holy, holy, holy of Isaiah with the hymn we call the Tri…
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[quote author=sherene_maria link=topic=13549.msg158461#msg158461 date=1344031728] how can a Coptic Orthodox believer ask an Arian person for intercession. To whom that one will intercede, to the Word of God Incarnate or to another god whom I do not …
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13535.msg158464#msg158464 date=1344037218] There is nothing in the basic form which requires it to be Trinitarian or Christological. It can be either. And in Coinstantinople it was addressed to the Trinity. If I…
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[quote author=Ηεζεκιελ link=topic=13549.msg158456#msg158456 date=1344029289] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13549.msg158454#msg158454 date=1344028437] [quote author=Ηεζεκιελ link=topic=13549.msg158451#msg158451 date=1344027901] [quote author=imik…
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[quote author=✞TheGodChrist✞ link=topic=13549.msg158453#msg158453 date=1344028365] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13549.msg158450#msg158450 date=1344027233] May be this will make it clear, He was added erroneously by the COC based on false info …
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[quote author=Ηεζεκιελ link=topic=13549.msg158451#msg158451 date=1344027901] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13549.msg158450#msg158450 date=1344027233] May be this will make it clear, He was added erroneously by the COC based on false info we obt…
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There is a research done by one of the great scholars of the COC on this topic. In summary, the West and the Byzantines were afraid to address the Trisagion to the Son so that people may think that the passion was attributed to the divinity. The Or…
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May be this will make it clear, He was added erroneously by the COC based on false info we obtained from the Byzantines. Now that the Church knows about the error, he will be removed. What was the error? That he was baptized Orthodox by the Pope o…
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The Early Church understood the Trisagion hymn to be directed to the Son rather than the Trinity. The Oriental Church kept that Tradition.
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...Both families have always loyally maintained the same authentic Orthodox Christological faith, and the unbroken continuity of the apostolic tradition, though they have used Christological terms in different ways. It is this common faith and conti…
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[quote author=✞TheGodChrist✞ link=topic=13549.msg158438#msg158438 date=1344013598] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13549.msg158435#msg158435 date=1343994955] I must say that the relationship between the Eastern and the Oriental has not been formal…
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Dear TheGodChrist, You are entitled to your conclusions and to the way you arrived to them. I must say that the relationship between the Eastern and the Oriental has not been formalized as of yet. The Oriental Church do not accept the Eastern fol…
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Unofortunately, there is nothing called the Universal Orthodox Church. I truly wish there was. There is the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Church. Both are not in communion as of yet. They do not acknowledge our saints and we do …
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[quote author=Joshuaa link=topic=13549.msg158426#msg158426 date=1343961076] But you are having one apostles road to salvation less than another and possibly not the true road. I think we are the true bride by virtue of being the best we can be in …
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[quote author=Joshuaa link=topic=13549.msg158423#msg158423 date=1343957607] It is of utmost importance to belong to the one family of Christ, but the way you have it like one apostle accepting him and another apostle excommunicating him. How is tha…
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[quote author=Father Peter link=topic=13549.msg158419#msg158419 date=1343947093] They all call him a saint. Not all saints are in the Coptic calendar. But they are still saints. [/quote] Is he an official saint in the Oriental Orthodox Church? The …
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[quote author=Ηεζεκιελ link=topic=13549.msg158420#msg158420 date=1343949137] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13549.msg158417#msg158417 date=1343944824] I started by saying that he will be removed. Yes, currently he is a saint because he was added …
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There is a difference between quoting an author and considering him a saint. Chalcedonian authors might have written wonderful spiritual works and they certainly did. However, that does not mean that they are in the diptych, just because we quote t…
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[quote author=✞TheGodChrist✞ link=topic=13549.msg158414#msg158414 date=1343933709] [quote author=imikhail link=topic=13549.msg158406#msg158406 date=1343929280] Through his Arian belief and Arian belief, Constantine chose not to be part of that Tree …