Also to #4, what if the mission churches that sometimes use other sources and methods outside the liturgy, also only use source material or methods that don't contradict Church teaching?
Like what if they sing praise songs that are perfectly bibli…
Rem but even if they do they don't do in the liturgy right? And they do sing all the Coptic hymns and they make hammel and all the things that every other Coptic Orthodox Church does. Like one of the websites says about hymns: "All hymns will be adj…
Does anyone know any of the Abounas or servants from the mission churches? Like maybe they could be invited to share the perspectives and a discussion could occur in love and truth? If anyone has direct experience maybe that would help clear up the …
One would hope that there's the Orthodox Church in America. What that means about the rites maybe only time will tell...
The jurisdictional issue is so messy :s we can pray and find ways to at least work together across jurisdictional lines maybe...
Rem that's a good point. I agree if it happens it should be gradual and with love. Just to be clear, Are you pointing out the issue when English or any other language is enforced ideologically?
Rem on point number 4, the mission churches follow Coptic hymns and Coptic rites very faithfully. If they were to use or draw from other sources they don't do so in the liturgy. Also if Abouna approved these methods should be ok and they're also jus…
There apparently was a model of a unified Orthodox Church back when St Tikhon was metropolitan of America. Something along the lines of each ethic group having auxiliary bishops to manage pastoral issues but they would report to Metropolitan Tikhon.…
Does that preclude that the rites and hymns should be sung in vernacular? or that people will understand the theology if it's in Coptic (even if they don't understand it)? What communicates this theology? Do the notes communicate it? Or do the mimet…
I had the same reaction, I was like did they name this video wrong? Or like "they sing like that in the Syrian Orthodox Church?" Talk about being ahead of the times :p
That's a good point. (Also the idea of having one metropolitan or bishop from the Oriental family oversee all the local Oriental Orthodox Churches would be fascinating. Like first of the sister families to be established would then oversee the pasto…
Thanks Remnkemi, la la minasoliman answered it beautifully and the question of this teaching is raising questions about what Orthodox Mission is...
That's also such an interesting statement that "Orthodoxy is theosis"
minasoliman, would you consider…
bump bump. This thread is super important and informative.
Question is how it also relates to Coptic Orthodox mission: http://tasbeha.org/community/index.php?p=/discussion/15187/orthodox-mission
minasoliman I should probably actually try reading St Cyril one day since I'm using his blessed name as my forum handle and all :s
You know the old joke that says, "sure we honour the fathers but Je Nai Nan if we have to actually read what they wro…
Wow. That means we have to reevaluate mission theory I think....and also how we see the EO
If this teaching is correct then it also impacts how we understand salvation! And that means that also impacts how we do and live and understand mission.
Thank you minasoliman. Isn't accepting deification more Nestorian because the EO teach it and they accepted Chalcedon? Also if the EO say that humanity is dissolved isn't that monophysitism?
Also are you suggesting grace is deification? Isn't it ju…
ReturnOrthodoxy would you say that people connected with Fr Anthony more? And people didn't get all the theological stuff that Fr John was speaking about? Wasn't there a bigger turn out the year after Fr John came? More people probably found Abouna'…
Thanks EsmoEpchois.
Doesn't Coptic Theology teach itself. Like singing the hymns has theology in the notes? It's a mystical and mysterious thing which is why the mission churches keep it too and they are preserving Coptic tradition.
Are you sure the EO don't believe that? They say we will become gods.
HH Pope Shenouda III said"That man becomes a god means that he becomes holy and infallible. That man becomes a god means that he is not created and is not subject to death; for …
Hi everyone, also like to point out that if you look at the websites or youtube videos the missions are still strongly Coptic
In the liturgy they sing Coptic hymns in English and preserve the notes, therefore they also teach the theology of the Copt…
Also say the churches still teach about the importance of the holy mysteries and also of the fathers, couldn't they also allow these other sources because they would bring people to eventually learn the deeper stuff after they get introduced with th…
These are very good points Rem. The one about taeta and gido is really fascinating and beautiful.
About the using of any means can't we still use any Christian source? That wouldn't be pluralism if it is Christian right? Again as long as it brings…