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Do animals go to Heaven?
Hello guys.
I got into a friendly argument with a peer over this issue. My stance/understanding is that they do not, because God did not make a covenant with them, whereas He did with mankind. I also remember reading that they do not have either a soul/spirit, which disables them from going to Heaven.
What are your thoughts on this?
Severus
I got into a friendly argument with a peer over this issue. My stance/understanding is that they do not, because God did not make a covenant with them, whereas He did with mankind. I also remember reading that they do not have either a soul/spirit, which disables them from going to Heaven.
What are your thoughts on this?
Severus
Comments
Even though I'm rusty in this topic I remember a little of what my Abouna told us at a Bible Study once...
I agree on animals not having Spirits and therefore can not enter Heaven or The Barbuque.
Animals DO have souls...Like I said I'm kind of rusty in this topic so I don't really remember the different between a Spirit and a Soul but that's the reason why we can't eat meat with blood, the blood contains the soul my Abouna told me
If anyone in my educated in this topic then me please help me out. ;D
God Bless,
Copt Andrew
I agree with you man, no animal will go to heaven, they don't have souls/spirits therefore have no part with God. They were created for us and serve us(and sorry to say this for you animal lovers out there) but once they have served their purpose(food, help, whatever) they have no other purpose. They will not enter heaven nor have a place in heaven. all they live off is instinct they don't know right from wrong. so how can God judge them? He can't so how can they inherit something they don't diserve?
Correct, yet some argue that they do not sin. Utter nonsense, in my opinion ;)
This has been a new trend on a parish level in some Roman Catholic churches to make these claims. Although, I will say and thankfully, there is no official doctrine from the RCC as to animal presence in heaven. It may also be done in the Protest-ant sects. I have firsthand witness of these types of statements relating to animals going to heaven when attending at a Roman Catholic parish for a given event. Even attempted false use of biblical passages to that effect were used, although I cannot remember exactly which two passages were used.
These idiotic attempts are to try to make the faithful feel better about the church. It is an attempt to draw them in, since many people put more love and effort into their pets than in their children or their relationship with God the Almighty.
True, in the Books of Ezekial and Revelation, there is mention of beings with animal appearance, but nonetheless they are not true extensions of the afterlife of terran animals. They are full-beings that are exclusive of the animal nature that we know from our human existence on earth.
Yet, again, another Roman Catholic: "let's feel good, let's forget about true theology, and let's make everything sound good regardless of the cost so that we can all make everyone under the banner of the Pope of Rome."
It is so childish. It is so patronizing to talk to the faithful like you do with five year old children.
True, in the Books of Ezekial and Revelation, there is mention of beings with animal appearance, but nonetheless they are not true extensions of the afterlife of terran animals. They are full-beings that are exclusive of the animal nature that we know from our human existence on earth.
They have used this argument as well, but I stated that they are beings which God created for a very specific purpose and do not represent proof that animals have life in Heaven.
Cya Please Pray for me
been carnivores, and also allowed to eat any of the animals in the garden.
Sorry please pray for me
One correction i would like to point out as well is that animals do not have spirits, they have souls, there is a difference, the spirit is from God, animals don't have that.
Strong and thoughtful words.
How is saying animals were created for us selfish? For what other purpose do they serve? God has the Heavenly Hosts in heaven he did not need these animals. I did not say that they were soley for food now did I? I said they were created for us, whether or not we eat them is not the point i was making, they do things for the ecosystem(of which we live in) that better serves us and maintains a balance that we take for granted. God does not create things that have no purpose. These animals were created for us for our benefit, and for nothing else. In fact everything was created for our sakes, we are the only creatures that have the image of God Himself, no other creature has that glory or honor not even the heavenly hosts partake of such a blessing. Don't sell us so short in the eyes of God. Did he die for any other creation? no, did he save the animals from their sins? no of course not, hence its not wrong of me to say they were created for us.
One correction i would like to point out as well is that animals do not have spirits, they have souls, there is a difference, the spirit is from God, animals don't have that.
totally right, God gave us Dominion over animals.
An animal has a spirit like you and I, the spirit of the animal is in its blood thats why we are ordered not to drink animal blood, once the spirit of the animal has left the animal, it it dies like you and I, but according to our beliefs animals do not have a soul which remains after the spirit departs from the body. Hence they do not go into heaven..please tell me if i am wrong
Cya Please Pray for me
im a bit confused guys..which is the spirit and which is the soul??????? hence 'Holy Spirit' does that mean spirit is the important one??? im sure i heard that somewhere?! thats really bad..its like that thing i heard about a group of christians who got some good looking ladies to preach to attract people so they would listen and know about christianity..OH MY GOD!
[quote author=jydeacon link=topic=6532.msg86410#msg86410 date=1209523382]
I agree with you man, no animal will go to heaven, they don't have souls/spirits therefore have no part with God. They were created for us and serve us(and sorry to say this for you animal lovers out there) but once they have served their purpose(food, help, whatever) they have no other purpose. They will not enter heaven nor have a place in heaven. all they live off is instinct they don't know right from wrong. so how can God judge them? He can't so how can they inherit something they don't diserve?
Correct, yet some argue that they do not sin. Utter nonsense, in my opinion ;)
If they do not know right and wrong, how can they sin ???
Animals do not have free will, we do. It is the soul not the spirit that the animal posseses, hence, they cease to exist once their life on earth is over.
I think animals do have free will.
I heard in a sermon (that I think may have been recorded) that they do not. Do you have a reason for your thoughts?
I think that the very fact that they do not have a spirit and cannot enter the kingdom of heaven shows they do not have free will. If they had free will, they'd have some sort of conscious decision making mechanism, ie. they'd know right from wrong.. And if they have the free will to choose from them, wouldn't the ones who make the right choices be worthy of heaven like us?
I think animals do have free will.
do you thinkthat dogs that have been tought to stand on 2 legs and preform unimaginable stunts for animals, tigers that jump through rings of fire have free will?... u gotta be kiding..... serouslly, i don't think a lion or a tiger, 2 of the most ferocious animals on earth would just go jumping throu fire for FUN by their FREE WILL.... sorry i don't meen to offend you in any way but that is what i think.... plz correct me if i am worng
As you guys know, I usually do try to explain my point, but in this case I am very unfamiliar with the topic. But I just not right with the fact animals do not have free will...
Can you explain the difference between making a choice, and having free will. Are you saying an animals choice is defined based solely on animal instinct...?
Its not a matter of being an animal lover, which makes me oppose such thought
Its because it's away from what really occurs.
Realistically if this were the case, how do you explain the existence of deadly organisms which can kill us in a matter of seconds even if their size was quadriple samller the size us, how do explain the existance of microbial life causing deadly diseases in us, how do explian the diversity of bird life and the existance of organisms in extreme environments
which we can't dream of surviving, volcanic vents, and the coldest places on earth, and deep sea.
We as christians think we control the place and use verses from the Bible like "subdue the earth" to destroy the place and swipe God's Creation (not ours) of the face of the planet.
This school of thinking and greed have been root causes in the destruction of the environment and the disapearance of many magnificent creatures, like three tiger subspecies have been poached to extinction, and now its believed that only a matter of ten years tigers will no longer roam the earth...its really sad, i mean i don't want to be telling my children the story of saints who befriended tigers and lions like anisome and tell them they disapeared because we thought that they were created for us (their fur) and killed them all....
The Earth is the Lords not ours, sadly we only come to realise this when natural disasters strike, when pollution begins harming ours and our childrens health (take for example in queensland next to Mount Isa mines a tenth of the children have lead poisioning in their blood), and the land which we grow our food becomes degraded (soil salinity, sodicity, desertification and erosion).
I'm sorry, i'm not trying to be narrow minded and taking verses literally out of the Bible just trying to think open mindedly about whats really happening out there in the world.
I didn't say that animals have no purpose, just because an organism doesn't serve humankind it doesn't mean it has no purpose of existing..God created things for the purpose of living, and praising Him like I said life is very beautiful and complex in itself, have you ever visited a national park and been at awe at the beauty infront of you, beauty not created by us but natural beauty created by our Great God, (not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these)
Have you ever been at awe at how huge engineering structures come crashing down due to a natural disaster?
(take for example hurricane Katrina...the place was practically engineered to withstand flooding from a hurricane with HUGE walls, but they came crashing down and the side effects of Katrina were horriffic )
(and whats even sadder that before mass concrete development on the coast of the area and before european settlement, naturally on the coast there were plants and large mangrove systems which withstand flooding and in the case of a flood uptake water at rapid rates to prevent the spread of the flood inland to prevent more damge ..these plants were logged down and all this coast is now a concrete jungle which didn't help in preventing the flooding ...and the side effects God knows)
Whether the story of Noah metaphoricaly or literally happened, in it God orders that humans be swept out and that Noah help rescue all the blameless creatures...here Noah serves God and the animals (300 years) not the animals serving him.
Many animals are living creatures like us, especially mammalian organisms which have feelings of hurt and hunger (whether they have a free will or not), in many cases we can learn from organisms take for example the sacrifice and endurance whales travelling thousands of miles through, without food and putting their lines at risk from environmental factors and human poachers to give birth in warmer waters, some journey were found to go on for 50 000 miles, then travel back to colder waters for feeding.....today we hear of mothers neglecting children, and abortion.
We can also learn from small organisms such as the butterfly, who ever expected that an ugly caterpillar will change into a beutiful butterfly?
Who knows if animals go to heaven or not, maybe some do...but even if they did the argument isn't will heaven fit us all, heaven is heaven and is possible of fitting all, and animals didn't wrong in the first place hence they wouldn't need the death of Christ on the Cross for Salvation.
Cya
please pray for me
[quote author=clay link=topic=6532.msg86544#msg86544 date=1209652037]
I think animals do have free will.
I heard in a sermon (that I think may have been recorded) that they do not. Do you have a reason for your thoughts?
I think that the very fact that they do not have a spirit and cannot enter the kingdom of heaven shows they do not have free will. If they had free will, they'd have some sort of conscious decision making mechanism, ie. they'd know right from wrong.. And if they have the free will to choose from them, wouldn't the ones who make the right choices be worthy of heaven like us?
We were created in God's image and God has free will,
animals were not created in God's image thus no free will
1) Body
2) Soul
3) Spirit
4) And we have the Holy Spirit as guidance
pray for me
joe
I'm 100% sure animals have spirits. They don't have souls however. As humans, our souls go to heaven or hell. Our spirits give us life on earth but die after our soul departs our body.
spirits? i think u got them wrong way around..hence 'Holy Spirit'
This topic interested me greatly, hence why I've decided to reply. Some of you may recognise me from a long while back, but most of you are newbies to me on this website. Despite my absence posting in the last couple of months, Ive been coming back to this website to see if there's been anything interesting being discussed. This one topic in particular piqued my interest because I feel I can contribute in a meaningful way.
Alright, to begin my answer I guess I'll answer the topic question and agree with the people in this thread that say that animals wont go to heaven. And for those who wonder why not...It's based on what the rest of you have already said (But in a very confusing manner).
Animals dont go to heaven because they don't have a spirit. Animals, like human beings, have souls, meaning that they are capable of feeling emotion (Within certain limits depending on the species concerned) and pain. A spirit, which we share with angels and God, is what gives us a conscience to make a moral decision. And I say this as a Veterinary Student (Yes, an Egyptian vet student....not an Egyptian pharmacist...lol) because I was just studying animal welfare and the perceptions human society has over the treatment of animals. It seems the general perception of those who don't have any extremist views see that animals are sentient (meaning they have intelligience and feel emotion) and that they are not bound by the same moral principles humans are since they cannot make similiar consious decisions.
Whereas we make conscious decisions which may or may not be influenced by the Holy Spirit (the specific verse eludes me at the moment), animals are moreso governed by their instinct and are conditioned more heavily by their environment.
They have no perception of sin, and so therefore cannot be judged in the same manner. Heaven and Hell has no relevance to their existance since they have no Spirit with which to live with after their bodies die.
Well...Hope I contributed in some way. I havent read the whole thread (Ive been studying for exams :S), but from what I've read there have been terrific responses.
Please pray for my weakness.