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Origen and the COC
I am new here and was hoping someone could tell me what the COC stand towards Origen is. I know he's not a saint but the western church declared him a heritic in th 6th century. thanks for any help.
Comments
I believe this link might be what you are looking for…
http://www.saintmark.com/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/
God bless,
CS
My thanks for both of you
sleepy
CS
sleepy
Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Iraneaus, Clement, Theophilius...
CS
We are judged for teaching the wrong things. If you teach things of your own device that makes you a… what’s the word… HERETIC! Careful what you preach…
He was never formally anathamatised though.
In the west the first person to turn against him was St. Jerome and he was a factor in St. John's excommunication but I believe Origen only really became an issue outside alexandria during the time of the Emperor Justinian (not a big OO friend). He hated origin and pushed to have all his writtings destroyed so we don't even have a fraction of origens original work and part of what does exist are his writtings edited by his followers to remove some unorthodox passages. His western translators were St. Jerome (who used to be a big fan before he came to the conclusion that he was a sophist) and Paladius (I think).
In west he had something of a later return to grace I believe and the EO now see him as being largley being absolved of many of the accusations against him.
However we have to be accurate about the other father, the fact is that the never repented and that the Orthodox church does not believe in patristic infalability, we believe in conciliar infalability, perhaps you are confused about that? St. Gregory of Nyssa was an unashamed origen lover and copied many of his teaching and accusations can be leveled against him (the biggest one is univeralism or the salvation of all including the devil and he actually goes further than origen on this point). St. Augustine is also liable for wrong teachings too such as on the original sin, grace and salvation, predestination (this big protestant concept originally came from him) and the procession of the Holy Spirit can be traced back to him but he did repent for that one.
God bless,
CS
Bishop Demetrius called a council of bishops and priests who refused to abide by the decision, that Origen must leave Alexandria, but this did not content bishop Demetrius. He called another council of bishops only (in the year 232), and deprived him of the priesthood as the ordination was invalid and he became unfit for catechizing.
Origen was also excommunicated because of some errors mentioned in
His writings, such as:
1) He believed souls were created before their bodies, and that the souls are bound to the bodies as a punishment of previous sins they had committed. In addition, he believed that the souls are in this world (the materialistic world) only for purification.
2) The soul of Christ had a previous existence before the Incarnation and it was united with divinity.
3) Moreover, Origen believed that the Son (Christ) is created and foreign from the Essence of God the Father.
4) He believed that Christ has taken a body without a soul, and that Christ left this body after the Cross.
5) Origen believed that all creation will return back to its origin in God, and all mankind will be saved. He believed that the eternal punishment is limited and with an end.
6) Furthermore, Origen believed that Satan and all evil spirits would be saved. As he was blamed for this, he protested, " Even an idiot could not hold such a thesis".
7) Origen miss interpreted the saying of Christ, “For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it let him accept it” (St. Matthew 19:12). Based on his wrong explanation of this verse, he went and castrated himself.
Anyhow, the sentence of the council was enforced in Egypt and recognized in the West, but the churches of Palestine, Arabia, Phoenicia and Achaia, in which Origen was well known, disregarded it
Points 2 and 4 seem to contradict. He believed Christ had a soul but that he took a soulless body?
And point 4 is new to me. I have never ever heard this particular heresy attributed to him.
And as far as the belief in the whole of creation being saved, this was a very common belief long before Origen and even some books that were considered for cannonization wrote of it. It doesn't mean it's true just that Origen didn't create it.
And please don't think I am being combative, I just want to make sure that all the facts here are true and accurate.
I truly appreciate all you say and everyone that has contributed. God bless.
1) is a name given to those preachers who give birth to the souls in Christ Jesus our God. St. Paul says; "For though you might have ten thousands instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1st. Cor. 4:15).
2) It also means a teacher of the Lord's way (righteousness). St. Irenaeus says, "whomever teaches me a letter, I will become his son and he's my father" (Adv. Heresies 4:14).
3) St. Clement of Alexandria says; "The words are the offspring of the soul. Thus, we call those who teach us fathers. Every one who receives the teachings of the fathers becomes their child" (Stromata 1; 1&2).
4) A Father (Saint) is the one whose teachings are considered as Cannons of the Church of Christ. For they did not deviate from the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
5) A Scholar is the one that the church considers some of his teachings and does not accept the rest due to his deviation from the True Teachings of Christ handed to the Apostles such as Origen and Tertelian who are called Scholars.
+ The previous info. about Origen were mentioned in the following books: The History of the Church bu Fr. Menasha Youhana, Al Khaleda Al Nafesa by the great Scholar and St. Bishop Esothorose, and the Coptoic orthodox Curch as a Church of Erudition & Theology by Fr. Tadros Malaty.
+ Please, let me know how can I be of more help.
Pray for me,
Okay, I knew he had some disagreements, but I never heard that he was fully excommunicated. If this is true why does the COC frequently mention his name in relation to the teachers that came out of Alexandria?
Points 2 and 4 seem to contradict. He believed Christ had a soul but that he took a soulless body?
And point 4 is new to me. I have never ever heard this particular heresy attributed to him.
And as far as the belief in the whole of creation being saved, this was a very common belief long before Origen and even some books that were considered for cannonization wrote of it. It doesn't mean it's true just that Origen didn't create it.
And please don't think I am being combative, I just want to make sure that all the facts here are true and accurate.
I truly appreciate all you say and everyone that has contributed. God bless.
Hey larry,
My understanding is he was excommunicated but not anathamatised. He did have some bad teachings but he added so much to the faith too so we don't consider him an out and out heretic. In essence he is neither viewed as being condemned or a saint, his exact end is uncertain.
God bless,
CS