Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Big Bang/Evolution
Guys... I feel like there is no problem with believing in the validity of evolution.
Man was equal to animal before he recieved the breath of God (which is what makes us different from the rest of creation)
We don't know how God created the world...but I feel that it is wrong to be against evolution.
Give me ur insights
Thank you
Man was equal to animal before he recieved the breath of God (which is what makes us different from the rest of creation)
We don't know how God created the world...but I feel that it is wrong to be against evolution.
Give me ur insights
Thank you
Comments
Guys... I feel like there is no problem with believing in the validity of evolution.
Man was equal to animal before he recieved the breath of God (which is what makes us different from the rest of creation)
We don't know how God created the world...but I feel that it is wrong to be against evolution.
Give me ur insights
Thank you
Genesis 1
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning--the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
Than:
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
Here God specified that man is created in His image. Not in the image of a monkey as the theory says. Also it's written above that He gave him rule over all the creatures. So was he created or evolved from them and similar to them if he ruled over them. It just doesn’t make since to me and doesn't by any way apply to our Holy Bible.
In leu of the lack of appropriate evidence for evolution, I cannot see how one could seriously espouse such a volatile theory.
There simply stands no credible warrant for evolutionary theory that surmounts theories of Intelligent design or Biblical creationsim (which exclude evolution.)
God Bless
Yes God created man in his image.
But was man valuable before he recieved the breath of God?
If man was valuable before recieving the breath of God, which makes man superior, then yes I will tell you that evolution is against God.
But my point is there should be no reason to be against it.
So what if there is no evidence? What will you do if they prove it? You will probably admit you were wrong if they even ever do in your lifetime. But i dont think we should make the mistake of saying evolution is against God.
Guys if you really find something wrong in what I am saying please speak up, I am not the one who would want to go against Jesus Christ, Who is the only knowledge that is perfect.
Guys I am not trying to say that evolution is wrong or right. I am just saying that there is no reason to be against it.
Yes God created man in his image.
But was man valuable before he recieved the breath of God?
If man was valuable before recieving the breath of God, which makes man superior, then yes I will tell you that evolution is against God.
But my point is there should be no reason to be against it.
So what if there is no evidence? What will you do if they prove it? You will probably admit you were wrong if they even ever do in your lifetime. But i dont think we should make the mistake of saying evolution is against God.
Guys if you really find something wrong in what I am saying please speak up, I am not the one who would want to go against Jesus Christ, Who is the only knowledge that is perfect.
if you're saying that God looks like a thing that we don't know about than this is in fact against God. since we are in His image and we are created from what ever were created from than He looks like a somthing we don't know. you're saying that man was not valuable before he recieved the breath of God. you can't say that because man would of not been created or came to life without the breath of God. soo there is really nothing to compare with here. also like i said again:
Anything that is against the Holy Bible is in fact against God and the Trinity for it is the word of God that will not fail.
Man was physically made from dust not the breath of God. Also, evolution doesn't say man came from a monkey.
It's against the Bible, than against GOd.
Also dust is the body but not the soul. and still, man would of not been there with only dust.
Isn't a thousand years like one day to God?
Not only do i find no contradiction in the evolution theory along with the creation story, in fact, evolution answers a lot of questions that a litteral interpretation of the creation story can't answer...
we should believe what's in the bible without questioning Gods abilities... if we can't understand something.... then pray and God will help... seek and you shall find.... you will find what is proven and not just a theory ;)
I want to ask a question about man made in the likeness and image of God?
God is not physical. No one has seen God. Is it right for me to believe that this image and likeness that God is talking about is the breath of God?
By the way my whole purpose is not to stand for evolution. My purpose is to spread the word of God to evolutionists through the material in front of them.
My heart is open to any comments from anyone, so please let me hear.
So i do use the bible and i find evolution in the first chapter (through the specific order of organisms being created) am i missing something?
Yes AnbaBola, i agree that if it is against the bible then it is wrong. But evolution is not against the bible.
I want to ask a question about man made in the likeness and image of God?
God is not physical. No one has seen God. Is it right for me to believe that this image and likeness that God is talking about is the breath of God?
no one have seen God the Father but we had seen the human incarnated, One of the Trinty, Jesus Christ.
and please about the image of God interpitation, can you read the verses i posted above and may be explain them to us in your understanding. will tell now evelution is just a theory, nothing that can make people really believe and if so. try to make them bilive in the bible and than from there you can do anything. they really don't have a source of what they're saying but we do.
i think ur question is that if we didn't see God, then how do we know what he looks like? we saw Jesus is in the new testament, but Moses wrote this piece of the old testament without seeing Jesus so how would he know what God looks like?
right?
if this is your question, then let me ask u another question, how did Moses write the creation story :D? he didn't see adam or eve to ask what happened... but with the tradition that started from adam down to his sons down to abrahim... down to Moses. Adam did see Jesus and he passed that down to Moses. plus the holy spirit guided Moses when he wrote this...
was that ur question?
Look at rudimentary organs that had a purpose a long long long time ago.
Add to that our genetic code that carries the scars of ten thousands of years of evolution.
There's much to answer when u don't believe in some sort of development....
I'm willing to not beleive in the evolution, but someone should answer for me these questions.
On the other hand, ask yourself why u think evolution contradicts the bible!!
As i stated before: What difference does it make whether God blew in the air and formed dust to breath the breath of Life in, or whether God formed man from the dust via evolution over thousands of years (taking concideration that for God a thousand years is like one moment....), and then gave him the spirit that made him to be human...
Man was made in the likeness of God because he is created as a free, rational and spiritual being.
Having evolved from other species doesnt take away any likeness with God, because what makes us human is breath of Life within us (ie the spirit, which makes us different from animals).
I like to hear ur thoughts...and i certainly hope there is celbiology students who discussed this topic with their professors ;D
Mina, if you go to university and study human anatomy/embriology or celbiology, any of these studies, u'll find so many simularities between our development and physiology and that of animals.
Look at rudimentary organs that had a purpose a long long long time ago.
Add to that our genetic code that carries the scars of ten thousands of years of evolution.
There's much to answer when u don't believe in some sort of development....
I'm willing to not beleive in the evolution, but someone should answer for me these questions.
On the other hand, ask yourself why u think evolution contradicts the bible!!
As i stated before: What difference does it make whether God blew in the air and formed dust to breath the breath of Life in, or whether God formed man from the dust via evolution over thousands of years (taking concideration that for God a thousand years is like one moment....), and then gave him the spirit that made him to be human...
Man was made in the likeness of God because he is created as a free, rational and spiritual being.
Having evolved from other species doesnt take away any likeness with God, because what makes us human is breath of Life within us (ie the spirit, which makes us different from animals).
I like to hear ur thoughts...and i certainly hope there is celbiology students who discussed this topic with their professors ;D
you're rit i agree with you. that's what i said in my last response. we have a diffrent source. this is very similar to the idea of science and bible. i remeber a servant in church gave us a lacture about that. and what it did is proved science by the bible. some ppl prove the bible by science which in our church is wrong because we belive in the bible.
Science tries to find out the details, and these two don't necesarily contradict. I think we agree on that.
Yah, well the bible isnt a science book. Genesis doesnt give us a detailed prescription of how creation took place, the purpose of Genesis is to tell us that God created the world and the universe, out of goodness and love.
Science tries to find out the details, and these two don't necesarily contradict. I think we agree on that.
yah. acuily one thing that was included in that lacture that am talking about is how the covennat with GOd in the old testment was cercumsion on the 8th day. docters discovered that in the 8th day of every human, there is a protin that reachs its maxumim limit in the body that cause the body to not bleed as much if hurt or cut.
of courxe the spiritual meaning of the 8th day is that the 8th day is the last day, judgment day, the one that is after the seventh where Christ will come and will not rest till everything is restored to to the ways before Adam.
interesting topic...
here is an article i found which i hope you will agree is a definitive answer to this question
notice that there is continuous reference to the fact that man was created OUT OF NOTHING which completely discredits any argument supporting the evolution theory...this is also read by the priest in the Gregorian liturgy...
I also believe the bible doesn't just give man a 'gist' of how things happened...it is extremely accurate in terms of science and history ( as an example, the bible has been used by historians to pinpoint actual historic sites and also makes reference to the fact that the world was round even though people believed it was flat...)
Anyways thats my opinion and hope this helps ;)
The account in Genesis needs to be carefully underscored especially the outstanding difference between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. The accounts in Genesis 1 record the physical creation of the universe (The Heavens and the Earth) while the record in Genesis 2 records the spiritual efficacy of man and its significance to nature. For the scholar unfamiliar with the Hebraic terms used in both accounts contradictions appear to arise. One discovers that the notion that evolutionary prominence can be assigned to exegetical interpretation serves only to demean the relevance of Genesis 2. The Nephish, that is those creatures endowed with soul, mind and affection are starkly differentiated from mankind—creatures endowed with the very spiritual nature of God Himself and attuned with the capacity to worship the Almighty. In the first account of Genesis verses 24-25, we are told that God commanded that earth to bring forth every creature "according to its kind". The very order of distinction between creatures and their kind is clearly denoted here—the Triune God establishes an emblem of uniqueness for each kind of creature. Yet, even in such an instance the divine uniqueness of man is still not pronounced.
Immediately posterior to The Almighty sealing the first order of creation (the universe, the animals, the plants, the natural dominion) with a particular "goodness" transcendentally embroiled around His creation. He discursively communicates as three Persons of the Trinity projecting a relational decisiveness for His next act. Thus God spoke; “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Genesis concludes by distinctively consigning special dominion over every facet of the natural word into the control of man—a control that supersedes mere moments in time, thus, a control over the very essence of the natural world—starkly differentiating man's uniqueness to every other created order. The account ends with God signifying that only after the completion of His special creation of mankind that He saw all was not merely "good", but consummately "very good".
The second account in Genesis (chapter 2) begins by concluding the physical order of creation within the universe; "Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done."
Significantly, the passage is then segwayed into the spiritual significance of each creation, starting with the very relevance of sanctity founded in time itslef. Thus, the chapter denotes "Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." Once time is blessed by the decree of Yahweh it is then that the record of spiritual significance is recorded for all creation confined by time's domain "This is the history[a] of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens...." defines Genesis 2:4. Most noteworthily, the reader is told in verse seven "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being", indicating that through the conjoining of stardust (the actual substance of the earth) and by His own breath that man became a living being....not merely a revolutionized or spiritual being.
Prior to God's definitive and personal intervention, mankind was absolutely lifeless. Thus, even were one to presume evolutionary prerogatives of adaptation and re-cycled life course for the Nephish, no such life trajectory could account for mankind himself. There simply lies an affirmative difference in the specialty of man versus the rest of the cosmic and natural order. While evolution presumes a random, gradual and unspecified ordering of creation from which all life forms are manifested by primordial soup or the primary cell, Biblical Creationism presumes a sequenced, specified ordering to which all lifeforms are molded by the combination of stardust and the very spirit of God. The reasons I find evolution to be so wanting and extraneously wavering is four-fold: the lack of gradual progression fossil evidence has shown for Darwinian expectations, the failure for classical definitions of evolution to acknowledge an unrandomized process of creation to which the cellular origin of life remains undefined, the existence of irreducibly complex organisms that could not have evolved and the lack of exegetical harmony the theory holds in light of biblical revelation (as was denoted above). If the theory does actually hold verity, it must first be reformulated from Darwin's original premises, redefined in terms of what necessary evidence constitutes its tenants, and re-prescribed in terms of its existential value toward the Holy Scriptures. As of now, the theory simply holds no warrant to be taken seriously aside from manufactured claims made by credulous experts.
God Bless.
I see the versus you put for exactly what they are. God created all that we see. There is always going to be one mystery in science which is completely logical: What and how was the first cell that ever was, come about? What i see is that it *could be* that God created the first cell to undergo evolution (emphasis on could be). OR it could be, like many creationists think, that all the kingdoms of life had different beginnings (and i think i am right when i say that no science supports this but only limited logic)
Also if i have a better purpose to talk about, its that i dont want to see the Coptic Church take a stand for or against evolution like the other forms of Christianity are doing. It is still a THEORY. But it looks like the only one, and it also looks very logical according to some evidence. I suggest u talk with someone who is a professional of science and at the same time very knowledgable with the bible to gain more information.
In the end, it doesn't matter how the world was created. This will only end up being an answer to mankinds questions among the infinite amount of questions that could be asked. But knowing the ultimate answer to the main question (that Jesus Christ is God) is the most important. It is the most important because we connect Jesus Christ with all the knowledge that mankind can possibly find.
If anyone knows a priest or bishop (coptic) that is extremely against evolution please let me know because i want to know more about our Church's stand and reasons (theological and philosophical)
A good response. But i know there could be the same answer from an evolutionist that is just as credible. You said that creationists believe that all the lifeforms were a mixture of stardust and the spark of life. Evolution comes out to be the same thing except for the part where all comes from one source.
I am currently taking a bio class, and We are going to study about the theory of evolution.........! and I am ready for that discussion! ;) If you know what I mean! :P
First there is a bacteria and then formed a bigger bacteria then animals came to life then monkies and then monkies formed apps and apps formed humans....... ??? Yeah.... right.... and I am related to Michael Jackson! :P
So we started of by being little tiny bacteria.... whatever!!!
Anba David in a convention was asked a question about evolution, and I remember exactly what he said, It was about How humans came from monkies and Apps.... etc... , this is what he said " If we truely came from monkies and apps, then why don't the monkies do what we do..... Study, read, drive, write, talk, speak.... etc..."
Why didn't them famous and big scientists like Enstine and Galelio etc..... think that god is the one who gave them the "BRAINS" to think about all of that, and If their brains came from bacteria then why don't bacteria make a robot machine?????
You just got to believe with your heart that we came from Adam and Eve, God took dust in his hand and blow air into them and he created Adam then Eve. It is hard to understand with your mind that we came from dust, Just like it is hard for non belivers to belive in the Holy Trinity.
Look at it this way, Just like we started from dust we are going to end like dust. When we die and get burried our bodies will turn into dust over time...!
You Just need a heart to belive, and even if you heard whatever or someone gives you doubts that should NOT bother you if GOD is truley living in your heart!
bentBABAyasooa`
Have a read of the doc i attached in my last post i think you will find all the answers you are looking for regarding what we, as coptic orthodox christians, believe, (halfway down page 7 is particularly interesting).
Here is the website where i found this doc if u want 2 check it out for urself...it is the last article on the doctrine theology webpage
Hope this helps!!!
http://www.coptic.org.au/modules/resources_literature/index.php?category=2
pray for me
god bless
I read that article and i thank you for your help. I agree with alot, but I feel that the article represented one person's philosophy of creation. I am not saying that he is wrong. This view is valid to me.
I still don't think the church should stand against evolution. I don't see why we can't take a "middle ground." Can you explain more.
Also i would appreciate more articles that philosophically go against evolution.
Thanks guys
Remember I am not for or against (and that is just me) until i really find something for or against.
boy, you really are difficult to convince! ;D
I really don't know what more i can add which hasn't been mentioned already...
Is there a particular concept or idea that is still bugging you regarding why we should be against evolution???
We cannot accept this theory because in doing so we would be questioning the book of genesis which god himself has authenticated.
But surely, as bentBABAyasooa`was saying, you must have some conviction inside of you telling you evolution cannot be right???
We weren't some weirdo lab experiment and God didn't come in every morning with a pad and pencil seeing how we were coming along and what alterations had been made....he had something clear and precise in his mind about how he wanted us to be created...and if he made the entire universe out of nothing...why would he not do the same with us???