Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Do they go to Heaven?
I have been thinking about this for quite a while.
Do people have to be baptized in the orthodox church to go to heaven?
-Actually, i partly know the answer to this question, which is yes and definetely.
-However, WHY?
What if there is a person who doesnt know about the Coptic orthodox churc h, but they are good catholic or christian people. They were never baptized, but they dont sin, and the love Christ. Do they go to heaven.
I feel like its not fair although i am no one to judge god's decisions.
Why should they go to hell just because they dont know about baptizm and our church.
I heard that they dont go to heaven, but they go to a place where they are blind annd they dont see anything, but i am not sure.
God Bless
Pray for me
Do people have to be baptized in the orthodox church to go to heaven?
-Actually, i partly know the answer to this question, which is yes and definetely.
-However, WHY?
What if there is a person who doesnt know about the Coptic orthodox churc h, but they are good catholic or christian people. They were never baptized, but they dont sin, and the love Christ. Do they go to heaven.
I feel like its not fair although i am no one to judge god's decisions.
Why should they go to hell just because they dont know about baptizm and our church.
I heard that they dont go to heaven, but they go to a place where they are blind annd they dont see anything, but i am not sure.
God Bless
Pray for me
Comments
well no body really knows the real reason, but i think that that is the answer..that they are blind and cant see but they dont get tortured or anything.
Any other replies?
I heard that they dont go to heaven, but they go to a place where they are blind annd they dont see anything, but i am not sure.
I had a sister, and she passed away before she get babtisied! and my parents were wondering if she'd go to heaven or hell! and when they asked abona he told them "she'd be in heaven, but she won't see anything"
Just like our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was Baptized and out came the Holy Spirit on him in a shape of a dove.
When we are born and get Baptized, one of the holy sacraments of the church, The Holy spirit comes and live in us.
I am sure You have heard the phrase when a baby gets baptized "She/he is going to become christian"
So if you are not baptized you can NOT take communion!
Baptisim is tied with communion, you need to have this to get that.
You need to be baptized and have the holy spirit leaving in you to see god in heaven.
It is like this santa clause story, If you do NOT believe you won't get presents!
ok..........where in the bible does it say that if you are not babtized and u r good you will go to heaven but no see anything ???
i'm just wondering
That's a personal openion i could be wrong but anyway we trust god is merceful and fair.
I have been thinking about this for quite a while.
Do people have to be baptized in the orthodox church to go to heaven?
-Actually, i partly know the answer to this question, which is yes and definetely.
-However, WHY?
What if there is a person who doesnt know about the Coptic orthodox churc h, but they are good catholic or christian people. They were never baptized, but they dont sin, and the love Christ. Do they go to heaven.
I feel like its not fair although i am no one to judge god's decisions.
Why should they go to hell just because they dont know about baptizm and our church.
I heard that they dont go to heaven, but they go to a place where they are blind annd they dont see anything, but i am not sure.
God Bless
Pray for me
well first to acuilty be a true christian there is two traits to recived it. one is to have the faith and one is the religious acts and services. and both are mandatory for entering heaven. can't leave one and take the other. that's what most catholic say and protestants think and bleive that you only need faith to be saved. but that is wrong.
now baptism and our seve scremants in the coptic church (also the oriantel), are the christian acts we have to do. also Christ Himself said that without baptism No One will enter heaven. now i don't think it can be said any simpler....can it!!!!.
now for thoses who dn't know anything and never had the chance to do so about our true faith, God will have mercy on them on the last day. Our God is a merciful and compassinate God. Just follow what he said on earth and He will not leave you when we're not on it.
[quote author=bentBABAyasooa` link=board=11;threadid=4709;start=0#msg64271 date=1165087984]
[quote author=mjoe80 link=board=11;threadid=4709;start=0#msg64222 date=1165036323]
I heard that they dont go to heaven, but they go to a place where they are blind annd they dont see anything, but i am not sure.
I had a sister, and she p***ed away before she get babtisied! and my parents were wondering if she'd go to heaven or hell! and when they asked abona he told them "she'd be in heaven, but she won't see anything"
Just like our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was Baptized and out came the Holy Spirit on him in a shape of a dove.
When we are born and get Baptized, one of the holy sacraments of the church, The Holy spirit comes and live in us.
I am sure You have heard the phrase when a baby gets baptized "She/he is going to become christian"
So if you are not baptized you can NOT take communion!
Baptisim is tied with communion, you need to have this to get that.
You need to be baptized and have the holy spirit leaving in you to see god in heaven.
It is like this santa clause story, If you do NOT believe you won't get presents!
i just want to refraze that and that is that babies who die before baptism will not go to heaven or hell they will just be there. now no one knows where there is but atleast we know that they are not suffring for they didn't do any sin.
not only COPTIC ORTHODOX will go to heaven... catholic believers will go to heaven too... they take communion and they are baptized!!!
you also have greek orthodox which is very similiar to us... i have a greek friend, and she tells me about all the fasting that they do and its basically just like ours (40days before christmas, 55 days before easter, wednesday and fridays... etc.. etc...)
anyway...
when god jesus died on the cross, he died for everyone and anyone who believed in him will be saved... tell me did the right thief was "phyiscally" baptized?
here is a situation and u guys tell me what will happen:
a guy from a different religion believed in Christ... when he was talking to his family about it, which was very strict, they tried to convience him to stay in their religion. He then declared his love and belief to Jesus to all of them... so they shot him and he died without being batpized and without taking communion!! does he go to heaven? does he go to hell?
its not just "us" coptics that to heaven... yes, we are the most strict group of believers, and we pratice every aspect with great love to our lord Jesus. BUT there are other ppl out there who believe in Christ and take communion and WILL be saved!!
bout little babies... there is no place called "there"... its either heaven or hell... paradise or hades... all the great prophets of the old testament are in paradise right now. lemme tell u this. what will happen to all the little kids that were killed in Bethlehem by Herod when Jesus was born?? these kids weren't batpized... and def didn't take communion... their parents don't know about Christ our Lord yet?? what will happen to them?? its God to judge where those little babies will go...
i hope i helped ::)
not only COPTIC ORTHODOX will go to heaven... catholic believers will go to heaven too... they take communion and they are baptized!!!
you also have greek orthodox which is very similiar to us... i have a greek friend, and she tells me about all the fasting that they do and its basically just like ours (40days before christmas, 55 days before easter, wednesday and fridays... etc.. etc...)
anyway...
The Coptic Church never receives those from the Eastern Orthodox Church by means of baptism, only by Chrismation, and so the Coptic Church definately accepts the validity of EO sacraments.
However, considering the grave heresies that the Catholic Church adheres to, I would doubt their communion is anything other than just normal bread and wine. The thief on the Cross did not need baptism, just like those of the OT did not need baptism. When Christ died, He descended into Hades and freed those who were held captive there; including the thief.
Those who died after the resurrection, however, are in need of baptism for salvation, since this is what unites us to the death and resurrection of the Lord. A martyr is baptised in his own blood, so the Fathers of the Church teach. Therefore this person would go to heaven even if he didn't receive normal water baptism. The babies killed by Herod died before Christ's saving work on the Cross, and so had no need of baptism.
For those who die unbaptised now, they are certainly not condemned to hell - for they're innocent of sin - but (from what I've heard) they go to paradise "blind". I.e. they go to paradise, and experience no pain or suffering, but they are unable to attain the full blessedness that being in Christ's presence brings.
plus... every year, at least here in the US (NJ, & NY), all of the orthodox churchs get together (greek, indian, coptic, etc.., etc..) and we pray one liturgy following one rite each year and we all take communion from the body and the blood. This year we prayed following the coptic rite and anba david lead the prayer. I think last year was indian (i might be mistaken though)... if our church believes that what eastern orthodox does in not body and blood, we wouldn't have this yearly event. i agree with u.
but tell me what will happen in this situation(abouna likes to use this example, but i'll change it a little bit to make it fit our topic):
a family - non-christain (father, mother, and two daugthers) go on a ship for a nice vacation... the parents die... leaving the two young daugthers with no one to care for them... an oumana comes and takes one of the daugthers to el dar. a gang comes and takes the second daugther and make her go to sell her body for money, etc.. etc... etc...
the first daugther gets baptized and she lived with christ all of her life.
the second daugther finds out about christ from the ppl. she wants to become christian. but the gang always beat her and never lets her out and she was forced to stay in that "career" with no mercy until she died while having christ in her heart!
tell me, what will happen to the second daugther? no baptizim, no communion, no blood was shed, but christ was in her heart all the time!
this is a pretty valid story - fiction yes!. we all are born with the sin of Adam... remember what we pray in the liturgy... no one is without sin even if his life was a second on earth.... that's why Christ was born of the holy spirit to bypass the sin of Adam.
about being blind... i don't know about that since i think i heard it a while ago but never made sense to me :-\ ... so i just know that God is just and right and he will be just and right to those little babies...
wait, something just hit me... in another topic "Judgement day" i wrote something interesting which i got from abouna... in the second coming, who ever have a defect in his body, it will be fixed... so whoever is missing an arm, will have his two arms. whoever is missing a leg, will have two legs... and also whoever is missing an eye will have two eyes... if God sooooo mercifull to grant us with a complete correct body... why would he take away the sight of innocent babies for eternity even if they are with us in heaven??
i'm not saying ur wrong, and i'm right... but this is what i know... if i'm wrong please correct me!
plus... every year, at least here in the US (NJ, & NY), all of the orthodox churchs get together (greek, indian, coptic, etc.., etc..) and we pray one liturgy following one rite each year and we all take communion from the body and the blood. This year we prayed following the coptic rite and anba david lead the prayer. I think last year was indian (i might be mistaken though)... if our church believes that what eastern orthodox does in not body and blood, we wouldn't have this yearly event..
ok this is wrong becase the coptic church, HG Bishop David, prays a monthly litrugy with the Oriental churches which are, if am not mistaken (correct me if iam wrong), us (copts), indian, irtrian, syrian, arminian, athiobian. the 6 conanical oriental churchs. greeks are not included even tho they are very close to be.
well leave this to God not your own judgment. also why would you wait to get the blessing if it's rit there in front of you. your right but we didn't inherit the sin, we inherted the consiquence which was death until Christ had come, died on the cross, opened the gates for those who were lost and deserved heaven and abolished death by His death. so basicly that sin is not on our selves any more for Christ have carried it all on Himself. first the kids you are talking about, of Bethlahem went straight to hell like every person who died before them because the paradise was not opened yet. soo you really can't use this as an example.
now concerning the normal babes, i think Orthodox11 explained "there" a lot batter than i would of.
wowowowowowowooo. that was the United Nation meeting where All Eastern Orthodox Churchs meet togather yearly and take turns in doing Vespers Prayers. This year was like the 6th year (am not sure) but it was our First year to do vespers. i myself was there with the Seraphim Chorus. So it wasn't a litrugy.
yes wer are, but not Adam's. And yes we die with Christ and live again being cleaned of sin. And that's why no one enters heaven with out baptism. you just gave an answer to the whole topic rit there :).
i don't agree with this... if a single person in a catholic church believes that he is partaking of the body and the blood... then I'm pretty sure that he is taking the body and the blood and not bread and wine... God will not punish this believer because of the sins of others.... stories from the OT proves this.
Lutherans believe their Communion is the Body and Blood of Christ; so do Anglicans. Do you think these Protestants have valid sacraments?
"For God so loved the WORLD"
I think every bible says the world and not coptic orthodox!!
plus are we trying to sit on the thrown instead of God to judge??
last night i was reading this story:
an elder monk went to live in a cave by himself... after years, his disciple came to visit him and they were chatting about the monastery and the monks...so the elder monk asked about another monk that wasn't following the teaching, so his disciple said - he is still the same as when u left the monastery... so the elder monk said "EFF"... right then, an angel appeared and said where do you want him to be put?
instead of saying who goes to heaven or not... say how we should help them if you think they are wrong and mislead
Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Luke 5:31-32
"For God so loved the WORLD"
I think every bible says the world and not coptic orthodox!!
plus are we trying to sit on the thrown instead of God to judge??
last night i was reading this story:
an elder monk went to live in a cave by himself... after years, his disciple came to visit him and they were chatting about the monastery and the monks...so the elder monk asked about another monk that wasn't following the teaching, so his disciple said - he is still the same as when u left the monastery... so the elder monk said "EFF"... right then, an angel appeared and said where do you want him to be put?
instead of saying who goes to heaven or not... say how we should help them if you think they are wrong and mislead
Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Luke 5:31-32
you're fully in the world part that only gave an invatation to the whole world to be granted salvation by believing in him. and us Copts, we have the right faith and i guess that's one reason that our church is still standing till this very day and is increasing even tho after the martyrdom of thousands of it's believers. if you, as a copt, don't be proud of faith, what else would be proud of?!!!
its about believing in our lord and believing in His body and blood... and the intention of judging who to send to heaven and who to send to hell...
its about believing in our lord and believing in His body and blood... and the intention of judging who to send to heaven and who to send to hell...
AnbaBola,
i don't really know what are you trying to prove here. guess what there only one answer to all of this topic. here it is:
It is all about Christ's Word, the Holy Bible. If we don't apply that, we Don't Go to HEAVEN. it's that simple. Now anything that is out of the range of the bible (like the unbaptised children) is in fact God's. Therefore it's not ours to even think about it.
is this clear enough or there is anything else you want to include Anbabola???
also does the coptic church accept the baptism of catholics?
why does it accept that of greek orthodox?
Isn't living on earth better than living with no pain and suffering if you can't have a relationship with God like you can on earth?
also does the coptic church accept the baptism of catholics?
why does it accept that of greek orthodox?
the church doesn't accept the Catholics or the Greeks. acuilty it depends on the way they were baptised.