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Dancing is NOT wrong!
There was a topic started by my dear friend marmora327 about "Is dancing WRONG"...!!
My answer was "NO"
Because in the old testment in 1 Chronicles 15:29, David danced out of Joy! Also in the old testmen Women and Men were not allowed to dance togather; however, they danced in groups of the same sex. They danced at wedding, feasts they held for the Lord, and Celebrations!
Dancing out of Joy is NOT a problem!
I hope my point is clear enough.
God Bless all of you,
and pray for me because I am in need of every small prayer.
bentBABAyasooa
My answer was "NO"
Because in the old testment in 1 Chronicles 15:29, David danced out of Joy! Also in the old testmen Women and Men were not allowed to dance togather; however, they danced in groups of the same sex. They danced at wedding, feasts they held for the Lord, and Celebrations!
Dancing out of Joy is NOT a problem!
I hope my point is clear enough.
God Bless all of you,
and pray for me because I am in need of every small prayer.
bentBABAyasooa
Comments
And this is just the first half of Genesis. We shouldn't follow everything that happens in the Old Testament.
However this doesn't apply to your example of David dancing in Joy. There is nothing wrong with that.
But in Todays society, dancing is often all about 'showing off your moves' and 'getting all the attention'. That's not very Christ-like.
Romans 13:13, 14:
'let us walk properly as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
but put on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil its lusts'
just a couple of questions to think about:
what is the aim of dancing?
how will this influence your thoughts and your purity?
how will it influence the thoughts and purity of people who are watching?
what are the songs and lyrics you are listening to and how will they influence your thoughts?
how can you pray if these thoughts, desires, influences and memories are in your mind?
do you think being pure means being boring and not enjoying your life?
all of what the bible says is on the top of my head!
However, when a person is stressed and/or has energy to relive! that person takes it out on his hobby!
and my hobby is Belly dancing! it release my stress, and takes my energy out when i am hypper ( i do not do drugs of anyking and i do NOT drink! so don't let your mind wonder off to far!)
if you dancing is by yourself and with some close friends i dont see how it could create a problem but just remember God is watching
We had to do it..
It was a catholic school as well...
I didnt particulary enjoy it... but i learnt salsa afterwards - which is far better. Is that a sin??
i think everyone does dancing at school, its become part of the school curriculum, i dont think many have enjoyed it, i know i didnt, being forced to do something isnt all that encouraging
Is it a sin??
This is what I say: God gave us an arm and legs and hands. I can use my hand to shake someone's hand or the SAME hand can be used to slap or kill someone. So, is dancing bad? It depends what was in my heart?? I like to make girls turn when i dance with them... its fun.. even my sister when I dance with her... its usually classical... or rock 'n roll...
Is it a sin?? its best to ask abouna....
dance as much as you like but as long as it doesnt influence your thoughts and your purity and those surrounding you. if lust is created than not only is the observer at fault but the dancer.
you are right vas it depends on what is in the heart? and what desires are created and yeah its prob best to speak to abouna
The man HAS to lead! Its obligatory: whether in salsa, waltz etc... Its very noble, and helps your confidence when u dance and lead someone.
What they do in nightclubs with House Music, or in RAVE's HAS NOTHING to do with what we do. Its a completely different event.
In France, the local dance is called "La Dance de Breton". This is very hard. It took me AGES to learn it. Kids, adults etc.. dance together holding hands... its extremely intricate.
But, this type of dancing, i personally love. Its great.
I don't particulary like belly dancing or any dancing where someone dances alone. Its like talking to yourself... i find it strange.
well see, we agree then that there are various forms of dancing but i do think you need to be cautious
family events where dancing brings people together is fine but belly dancing i dont consider appropriate in a public arena
you are right vas it depends on what is in the heart? and what desires are created and yeah its prob best to speak to abouna
This is what i have been trying to accomplish a century ago!
[quote/]
don't particulary like belly dancing or any dancing where someone dances alone. Its like talking to yourself... i find it strange.
[quote/]
hahahahhaa......... so You would believe me when I say "enta nesebaa"!
belly dancing is art, the way the body moves with hand corrdination is art!
There are guys who belly dance, and they are good but funny! I have danced with guys just like i danced my brothers, uncles, and dad!
Dancing in public is bad!
Dancing around Family members, not bad!
Dancing in a professional belly dancer's outfit, BAD!
Dancing as a hobby without any bad itentions, not bad!
Unless its hip hop - and then it gets into athelics.
However, I don't dance by myself alot! I dance either with other Girls/family members/guys (but not anymore cuz i am engaged!)
However, I don't dance by myself alot! I dance either with other Girls/family members/guys (but not anymore cuz i am engaged!)
Dancing alone, is you following your own footsteps!
However, Dancing with others is interesting you get to do more moves and more corrdination!
It is interesting!
but thanks for verifying dancing is not bad!
But - OK.. there's a movie called "Dirty Dancing". So, i guess that explains it? Its dirty. The name says it all and describes the dancing.
In France, its very classical - ya3ni.. when i say "rock n Roll" - i mean, its kinda bourjois. Its not dirty at all.. in fact, its SOO conservative, its even boring.
Listen, talking can be fun, interesting and polite as well as informative, and it can be dirty also. It depends on whom u r talking to. We know that from talking on this forum! So, it depends on who u hang around with when u dance also. It depends on what's on someone's heart when they do somethings.
There was a topic started by my dear friend marmora327 about "Is dancing WRONG"...!!
My answer was "NO"
Because in the old testment in 1 Chronicles 15:29, David danced out of Joy! Also in the old testmen Women and Men were not allowed to dance togather; however, they danced in groups of the same sex. They danced at wedding, feasts they held for the Lord, and Celebrations!
Dancing out of Joy is NOT a problem!
I hope my point is clear enough.
God Bless all of you,
and pray for me because I am in need of every small prayer.
bentBABAyasooa
OK Mira, then let's say u are NOT dancing out of joy.. let's say u are dancing because its your profession?? Let's say a belly dancer? Let's say a flamenco dancer?? Are they sinning??
It is their profession!
Like artists, who draw/pain/sculpture Nudity! It is art, however it is nota sin!
well then what about table dancing. isnt that a profession for some but that most definently is a sin
i agree that it depends on the persons heart your dancing with, but i dont think profession should be used as an excuse in a sense
and again simply by being a professional dancer doesnt make it a sin, its what is created in the thoughts and the heart whilst dancing
Againe, it does depend on the heart of the person that is dancing!
Are we trying to fool otherselves to relieve our consciences? If you ponder it like this, usually it is something wrong.. Usually we look for reasons to justify and ease our consciences, but that doesn't make it right,,,
Just so we can end this dispute once and for all, I will tell you what H.G. Bishop Youssef has to say... if you still have an arguement, then well, i don't know what to tell you. I'm not speaking specifically towards you, but like, sometimes people aren't necessary looking to hear the right thing.. they are more looking for they'd like to hear..
Again, not speaking about you, speaking about people in general including myself.
Here is what he says:
(it's not hard reading this so take the time to read it carefully)
Is it wrong to dance at wedding receptions as long as it is not sexual?
"Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil." This is what we pray daily in the Lord's Prayer. Is there dancing that is sexual and one not sexual? This depends on the individual. What you might consider not sexual could be very sexual to your dance partner. Let's consider the type of dancing, where dance partners are having their arms wrapped around each other and moving together around the dance floor with their bodies so close? Could not this be a source of temptation to purity? Another kind is the hard beat quick dance involving shaking the whole body and moving around the dance floor. The close body contact or the erotic movements that characterize so many of the rock-oriented dances would arouse the wrong feelings in both the girl and boy. St. Paul urged the young St. Timothy to "keep yourself pure" (1 Tim 5:22) and he says, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God" (Rom 12:1-2).
Our Lord Jesus Christ said that sexual sin is not committed by the body first, but begins in the heart. One who "looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Mt 5:28). Surely a Christian young person would want to avoid activities which would be tempting in this way (Mt 6:13).
Why is dancing wrong? God did not forbid dancing overtly in the Holy Bible. Many people danced (David, Miriam ... Aaron's sister...)
To be a Christian is to imitate the Lord Jesus Christ and follow His footsteps. In any situation we should learn to always ask ourselves 'What Would Jesus Do?" Our Lord said, "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me" (Mt 11:29). Do you think if He were with us today would He dance?
Dancing is a worldly way to express fun and joy. We, as Christians should not conform to this world but be transformed by renewing our mind (Rom 12:2) and as St. John taught us "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world; the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life; is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever" (1 John 2:15-17).
Unfortunately, many Christians justify dancing claiming that it is biblical, referring to David's dancing before the Ark of Covenant. This is completely different in motive, meaning and style from today's dancing. David's motive was to glorify God. He was playing religious music and singing psalms and hymns of thanksgiving praising the Lord "Then David and all the house of Israel played music before the LORD on all kinds of instruments of fir wood, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on sistrums, and on cymbals" (2 Sam 6:5). David did not mean to dance for fun and earthly joy but it was a religious ceremony, a holy procession. "Then David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was wearing a linen ephod. So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting and with the sound of the trumpet" (2 Sam 6:14-15). His style of dancing was "leaping and whirling before the LORD" is this the type of dancing we are talking about today and is it before the Lord? When his wife criticized his action, David answered "It was before the LORD, who chose me instead of your father and all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel. Therefore I will play music before the LORD. And I will be even more undignified than this, and will be humble in my own sight" (2 Sam 6:21-22).
Does Your Grace approve of dancing at graduation parties or any other outings done by middle and high school students who go to church and attend Sunday school?
The Holy Bible mentions two types of dancing. The first is that in which King David, Miriam the prophetess, and others performed; triumphant type of jumping, skipping, and promenading before the Lord (2 Sam 6:14; Ex 15:20). The second is that in which individuals engaged for pure pleasure. It was done either as a show for others as with Herodias' daughter (Mt 14:6) or with another motive for immoral purposes (Ex 32:19,25). Dancing caused a lustful king to make an oath which had cost St. John the Baptist his head (Mt 14:1-2; Mk 6:14-29; Lk 9:7-9).
The New Testament speaks to this latter type of dancing in Romans 12:1-21; John 2:15-17; and Galatians 5:19-21. This type of activity is sensual, fleshly, and worldly. It does not belong to those who have given their bodies as a sacrifice to the Lord. As such, it belongs in the realm of sinful activities.
We should not participate in any dance because dancing involves bodily movements which are sexually suggestive and can be classified under the heading of "lasciviousness or lewdness" (Gal 5:19-21). Surely a Christian would not want to engage in that type of activity.
The close body contact or the erotic movements that characterize so many of the rock-oriented dances would arouse the wrong feelings in both girl and boy. St. Paul urged the young St. Timothy to "keep yourself pure" (1 Tim 5:22). King Solomon warns us that "Keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it spring the issues of life" and "as one thinks in his heart, so is he" (Prov 4:23; 23:7).
Our Lord Jesus Christ said that sexual sin is not only done with the body, but begins in the heart. One who "looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Mt 5:28). Surely a Christian young person would want to avoid activities which would be tempting in this way (Mt 6:13).
Dancing parties and school proms might include activities that are damaging to one's character. We want to keep ourselves pure and let others know that we stand up for that which is pure. Since we are light to the world (Mt 5:14-16; Phil 2:15,16), we should guard our steps.
Dancing will place a person with the wrong crowd; with those of impure thoughts and those who just like to party, and drink.
Some youth would argue that they don't think evil thoughts when they watch others dance. Even if this were true, what about others who are watching you or are snuggling up close to you? St Paul says, "Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God" (1 Cor 10:32). Don't be a stumbling block to someone else.
If Christ were a high school or college student; what, do you think, would He do? Just ask yourself this question.
----------------
So What is the point here?
We , myself first and foremost, need to get rid of our itching ears which only listent o what we wish were true... Dancing is not more beneficial than other things we can be doing:
1 Cor 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful.
and also Romans 14:21
It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
Guys, let's realize that our life isn't even a small vapor, so why waste it? Why waste it on such petty and yani... haga't hayfa.... it's so worthless compared to the love of Christ...
I don't want to give you a big long sermon, but because I was won over with care for you guys, I wanted you to at least know the Truth so I have done my part in helping my brothers and sisters.
I hope you look to God, because His eyes never leave you.
Pray for me.
Im just curious, but what do u do for fun?
I mean, in Paris and Montreal - there are jazz and dance festivals every summer - its not sleazy at all (at least not in Paris).
If one lives as u have described ((which is very noble indeed)) , then why even get out of bed? There is a chance that whilst walking in the street, I COULD come across a woman showing her legs and fall into immense desire and temptation also.
Its dancing... i mean..its NOT dirty dancing.. Ya3ni.. some things people do, they have the nerve to even call it dancing, when its literally foreplay (excuse the expression).
All the servants in my Church in London dance at all the weddings.. in fact, they could probably treach not only belly dancing, but even classical.
I attended a wedding once (I won't say where), in a Copptic church, where during the wedding reception, Abouna put a cloth over the bride and groom so they could kiss each other...
I mean, people are different dude. Many egyptians who come to the west from Egypt are very conservative, and don't understand western traditions. I think this could be one of them.
you seem to think that just because something is widely accepted by the world, including Christians AND even Priests, it is acceptable in the eyes of God.
Well let me tell you this and you can make up your own mind. GOD IS CONSERVATIVE! GOD DOES NOT CHANGE ACCORDING TO THE WORLD! the world is always changing, but GOD REMAINS THE SAME! There's black and there's white, no grey area in between. There's no bargaining. He sent His word to you through the Bible, through Church Fathers, and may be even through these forums & it's up to you if you want to accept it.
bentBABAyasoo`,
I was once a dance ADDICT, and I have to admit, I wasn't that bad at it either :P. But innocent dancing lead to other thoughts and that was followed by actions and so on... I'm NOT saying this will happen to you, but you are putting yourself at the risk. If you REALLYYY love dancing and REAALLYYY can't stop, and if so I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL, there are many types of exersises that immitate dance movements, moving the same muscles, and you get the same satisfaction that you do out of dancing, AND your gaining ALOT of Benifits through it too! So if you want more info just PM me, I promise you won't regret it. ;) ;)
"
No, that's not true, and i'd appreciate it if u asked if that was my opinion than suggesting it for me.
Let me enlighten u, because this is a very important point, and I'll explain clearly:
When i went to Egypt a few months ago, I of course spoke with people there about their traditions etc ... and they said that in Egypt it was completely UNACCEPTABLE for a man to kiss a woman on her cheeks, whether in public or private. Even my own aunt didnt allow her nephews etc to kiss her (and she's coptic).
I said: Well.. im from Paris, and in Paris, u have to greet a lady or a close friend with a "bise" - its obligatory if u know them. It would be very offensive if u didnt do that. In fact, there's a way of kissing them. U don't touch them with the hands (u keep ur hands behind u, or next to u) and u kiss them on the cheek.
They said : "What if she's married?"
I said.. if she's married.. U STILL have to kiss her. Its the custom. I said, if I get married, and u didnt kiss my wife, I WOULD BE OFFENDED. They were like : "Wait a sec.. u wouldnt be jealous". They would be offended. EVEN IF I DIDNT LIKE A GIRL, But i knew her, I WOULD STILL HAVE TO KISS HER ON HER CHEEKS.. it would be the same as not even saying "hello".
So, NO! I wouldn't be jealous. You people who have come to the west from Egypt at an old age, or have lived in countries such as australia or canada (in land of immigration) will MOST LIKELY interpret traditions in culture differently.
Im glad still to go AGAINST the culture where there are things that are UNHOLY.. i mean.. totally wrong. YES.. i agree. Such as fornication. This is a sin, it is now, it was before, and it will be in 1000s of years... but certain things may be bad for you, but not for others.. we DONT think the same. We werent raised the same way.
I said what I had to say.
+God Bless.
I didn't suggest your oppinion, it's what you wrote yourself in the previous post.
I said what I had to say.
+God Bless.
Its ok. but i cant find anywhere where i said that. If u can find it, please quote me.
Thanks
I support the views of the Guest that offered input on this topic as well as those of Hizz Chiilld.
We as humans have the tendency to seek for the response that we want to hear on any given subject. Have any of you found yourselves doing that? We find it very hard however to hear the Voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to us however, it seems that we have an incredible ability to drown it out when we want to. While some topics might be brought up as a question that one truly does not know the answer to, I think that the majority of the time, primarily in subjects such as dancing, we are convicted in our hearts of the correct answer before we even ask the question, but we search so hard to find out how many people actually agree with us so that we can convince ourselves it is right.
On that note, allow me to say that regardless of whether one finds dancing of any nature to be acceptable or not, it all boils down to two things:
1) If Christ would find it acceptable or not (regardless of what the tradition or custom of the east or west happens to be)
2) If u choose to assume that Christ would find this acceptable, now that u have come to terms with this freedom, how are u affecting the freedom of others?
Permit me to explain the latter of the two in a little more detail. Say that I am an individual that has undergone open heart surgery. It is widely reccommended that cardiac patients have 1 glass of wine a day as part of a heart healthy diet. Now, I am out to dinner with a close friend that is a recovering alcoholic. As a Christian, and in the sense of considering others before myself, is it not more appropriate for me to have that glass of wine at home rather than tempt my brother?
This applies to dancing as well. I think that the most relevant quote made to this point was that from the Book of Romans: It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
We must realize that our actions affect the lives of all who see them, and we have a responsibility towards others. Let me say also that if one chooses to follow this principle that does not make that individual boring or completely and utterly devoid of anything to do for fun. It simply makes them eager to follow the will of our Lord.
Briefly on the 1st point. Would you feel proud and unashamed performing the same dance, job, talent, kiss on the cheek or what have u in front of Christ if He were physically standing there in front of you and visible to you?
Anyway, I need to remove the plank from my own eye as well. Just pointing out what I see.
Hello again to all as I humbly request the acceptance of a new addition to this forum. I pray God bless every one of you.
I mean.. why honestly not??
I remember so many egyptians think this way, and it has nothing to do with right or wrong. Its your culture. U need to distinguish between what's your culture and your religion. If i was at a wedding.. and Jesus Christ was there... what would He be so upset about? He blessed the wedding ? They are married, and we are celebrating the wedding ?? no?
I remember this priest's wife: she didnt let ANY of her son's wives kiss the other sons. There was no "kissing" between the son's and their wives when they greet each other. She was very egyptian. Hmmm... this debate, as well as others like this are more associated to your culture. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.
Isiah 21 (or 20??) says "Woe to you who change wrong from right and right from wrong" - but this isnt changing.. its celebrating a wedding.
I know how egyptians think... and when they come to the west, they TRY to be western and exaggerate so much that they mix between right and wrong (holy and unholy). We are BORN here!! You have to distinguish between what's accepted in Islamic Egypt, and what's Christian. Period.
. I think that the most relevant quote made to this point was that from the Book of Romans: It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
So , in that case, we won't dance with anyone fresh off the boat from Egypt.
I know many egyptians that see dancing as wrong or "provocative"... but let me ask u this:
Should we change our lives to make sure YOU don't stumble?? If that is the case, then what is the difference between Christianity and Islam where, in Islam, a woman must hide her beauty so a man is not enticed nor does he stumble when he sees her???
Is there a difference?? If u have a problem, my friend with being tempted, we all do, but i think the best thing to do is to deal with it. There is nothing wrong with the human body for a female to hide it, the problem is with my eye. That's my understanding.
If u disagree.. its OK too.. im not upset... but then what is the difference between Christianity and Islam. His Holiness Bishop FAM said "Islam achieves its result through social conformity". A law and a religion is imposed on everyone. But, in Christianity, its a unique personal relationship that's independent of what everyone else is doing around u.
So, have i achieved salvation and holiness because people around me have been veiled all their life?? or have i struggled to combat this impure desires through fasting and prayer? Which is better???
Iqbal said that. That Adam and Eve were NOT in fact born saved because they were sheltered by not eating from the tree. (( read his message, he explained it very well).
DOes that make sense???
Don't mis-understand me, i see EXACTLY how u lot think.. its exactly the mentality that exists when egyptians come from egypt to the west... they see things that are part of western culture that they cannot participate in such as the "Proms " , the "Jazz festivals", "Folklore Dancing in Britany"... stuff like that... you may miss life also??
Also, if u go to that extent of saying we should not lead each other in temptation, why also not go to the extent of encouraging people to pluck their eyes out who have lustful thoughts??
Someone on this site told me of a story of a man that found this woman's eyes beautiful , so she plucked them out and gave them to him because she didnt want him to have lustful thoughts.
I personally, respectfully disagree with that story and anything that is spiritual in there....
I know the story of Samaan il Kharaaz - he plucked his eye out.. but, he was a simple man... he really followed the words of God exactly. He wasnt philosophical like us, and he didnt debate... he had a very pure heart.. but, to pluck your eye out??!!! Why don't u pluck your eye out then?? IN THAT CASE YOU WON't BE TROUBLED WHEN U SEE SOMEONE DANCE!!
RAther than stop us from dancing.. DO AS SAMAAN il KHARAZ and PLUCK YOUR (YOUR!!) eye out!! oK!???
Go for it!!!