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Is Our Free Will LIMITED?

G.J.IG.J.I
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
Genesis ch 20 v 6
"FOR I ALSO WITHHELD YOU FROM SINING AGAINST ME"

the Lord God is talking to Abimelech.

does this mean our free will is limited, as in God can intervene??

Comments

  • Michael_ThomaMichael_Thoma
    Free will is what makes us human... God allows us to hear His opinion through others, but we can choose Good, or evil.
  • PaulhPaulh
    no George,
    our freewill is by no means limited. however, God does take the opportunity of sin away from us sometimes, but He never forces us to do something.
  • egyprincessegyprincess
    if free will was limited i think God wouldnt have Adam and Eve eat from the tree. ;)
  • sleepymusiciansleepymusician
    That's a really good point to bring up. Had our free will been limited, we wouldn't sin.

    sleepy
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    awsome point merra ;) ;) ;)
    :'( but then why did God intervine...
  • marysmarys
    quick verse...
    "You put my feet in the stocks, And watch closely all my paths. You set a limit for the soles of my feet." Job 13:27

    He "withheld" us in the sense that He only gave us as much as we could handle... i think there's another thread on that topic somewhere..
  • Michael_ThomaMichael_Thoma
    I think it is very important to read this whole verse:

    ch20v4-7
    4 Now Abimelech had not gone near her, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation? 5 Did he not say to me, 'She is my sister,' and didn't she also say, 'He is my brother'? I have done this with a clear conscience and clean hands."
    6 Then God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let you touch her. 7 Now return the man's wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not return her, you may be sure that you and all yours will die."

    Notice, Abraham was causing Abimelech to sin. It was not the kings fault at all, but Abraham's for lying. God prevented the sin, because when Abimelech took Sarah, he did it with a pure heart...
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    Gr8 verse mary thnx, aswome contimplation micheal ;)
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    Proverbs 3
    12For whom the LORD loves He corrects,
    Just as a father the son in whom he delights.
  • G.J.IG.J.I
    that was beautiful man :'(
  • unconditional_loveunconditional_love
    In Ephesians somewhere, its written that we are predestined to eb God's children and to enter heaven.. so what does that mean exactly? did God limit our actions so we can go into heaven?

    You see.. thats not it at all..
    We are ALL made in God's image.. so we are children of God and of course God wants us to be in heaven when we pass away...because we will be saved in this way..

    God didnt make distinctions between any background or any race... He created us all equally, however it is some fo us who choose to do otherwise.. this choice aspect of our actions is what we call free will..

    Some people are compatibilists who believe that determinism and free will are compatible.. i.e. that we are determined to act a certain way but in the mean time we are free .. we are determined usuallyby our upbringing and society.. we are free either to commit to them or not..

    Now my question is.. as Christians we are born into the faith .. do u think that if we were not born Christians.. would we still have chosen to become Christians?

    i mean.. ok as born Christians, we are determined to act a certain way... but would we have done it even if we werent Christians?
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    Ephesians 1
    Redemption in Christ
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[1] which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
    13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who[2] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
  • unconditional_loveunconditional_love
    yah thats the selection i was referring to in Ephesians.. thanks
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    No problem,

    However, could you please explain your question, I didn't quite get it. Sorry about that.


    Mike
  • unconditional_loveunconditional_love
    hey ya sure.. ill explain it again..

    ok well i know someone who was brought up catholic and then when she decided to really examine her faith and her life.. she decided to abandon catholicism and whole of christianity.. and now shes athiest really.. anyways.. this shows the compatibilist view that determinism and free will are indeed compatible.. i.e. she was determined to eb a catholic and she chose to separate from it later on...

    my question was ,, if we were not born Christians, would we have had become the Christians we now ourselves as now?
    take into consideration the whole free will and predestination thing.. can anyone explain?

    Goodnight.
  • mike_henainmike_henain
    Sure,

    You were predistened to be saved, God chose you, however you had to choose him as well, so it can't be from one side..

    A girl that abonded Catholicism was chosen by God yet she rejected that...just like anyone who is preached the Gospel has been PREdestined by God..yet some accept and some don't,

    Also, because we are born Christians we are without any excuse....

    that's just my 2cents however...

    Mike
  • egytonyegytony
    i think a lot fo converts who are new to christianity are better christians than some who were born into it and thats because they appreciate it more since they probly feel like thank God they found the tru faith or else they would have died and went to hell before they could get the chance

    tell ur friend this:
    if atheism believes that after u die nothing happens there is no after life and ur body just disintegrates and our faith believes that there is an after life composed of heaven and hell and that if ur not a christian u will go to hell, then its to her advantage to stay a christian because if shes right (about atheism being the right way) then we're all straight and we lost nothing, but if WE:RE right then shes going to hell
  • toppertopper
    I don't know that I could say that everyone is predestined to be saved. Some are predestined, that is those in God's election. Election is discussed by Paul, so there is little need for me to do so. Free will is limited, no doubt. In fact, the Bible is clear, that no man can come to God unless he is drawn by God. If free will was unlimited, he would be able to choose God WITHOUT God drawing him. However, I believe in John 6, it is clear, God must draw the man to save the man. So, free will of itself will not convert a man. God must draw him by giving him the gift of faith. Then, by the man's will, man chooses to follow God.
  • toppertopper
    About being born in incorruption... I don't believe this at all. We were in incorruption before the fall (as we are decendants of Adam and Eve, and partook of their doing), we are born in corruption. I see lots of evidence of this in Scripture. We are born with a sin nature. This is why we baptize infants, unlike a lot of protestants that don't recognize this. Those who are chosen by God are given faith, and thereby partake in the sacraments, for they are means of grace. In other words, they follow the requirements, that is by faith. We don't look at sacraments as works we do to get to heaven, otherwise they wouldn't be "means of grace", or a sacrament. Once again, we were exiled from paradise due to Adam and Eve, and we fell with them, or partook of death (spiritual death). We are brought back to life through faith. To say that God loves everyone the same.... I don't think I could go along with that either. Esau and Jacob are not in the same standing, as would be obvious. I know a lot of people like to rant on John 3
    :16, but it doesn't say He loves everyone the same. God doesn't love the wicked who He will send to hell the same as He loves the believers or for example the Virgin Mary. I suppose that Adam and Eve had the most "free will unlimited". After the fall, things changed a bit, for there was spiritual death present.
  • toppertopper
    Oh, no problem. Just a misunderstanding. That can happen pretty easy in here! ;)
  • sleepymusiciansleepymusician
    [quote author=G.J.I link=board=1;threadid=361;start=0#msg4734 date=1088148783]
    Genesis ch 20 v 6
    "FOR I ALSO WITHHELD YOU FROM SINING AGAINST ME"

    the Lord God is talking to Abimelech.

    does this mean our free will is limited, as in God can intervene??


    I was going over this topic again, and from the last time I was on till now, I've learned a lot more to add to it, I don't know if anyone is still interested, but I thought to share. Our free will is our choice to choose Heaven or earth, and by that I mean, whether we choose the narrow road or the other one.

    God tells us that we can do what we choose to but at the same time if we for example, use that free will to go on the internet or watch t.v., eventually it will become a habit to us and we will no longer be free to choose what we want. rather we become slaves to what we desire hence making us followers to something that will deny us free will.

    If we follow Christ we are choosing to live with him for all eternity and in the end we will be rewarded for using our free will correctly.

    God helps those whom he loves but at the same time he wants to test us and give us something that will prove our love to him, but he will never give us something that we can't handle because he loves us and he wants us, in the end, to be with him. We are his children after all.

    sleepy
  • mazzamazza
    we had a similar topic in one of our friday youth meetings at church and our guest speaker said:

    God will try so hard to get u into his kingdom, even to the end of ur last breath, he wants u so bad to join him in paradise.
    whether u are christian, an atheist or budhist; watever, he wants u cus we are all equal in his eyes.

    now because we are born as christians we know from the begining his will, we know his commandments so therefore he expects us to live by them so we dont fall into sin like adam and eve did.

    wel u are probably wondering wat about non-christians how can they know?? wel wat are we here for. we have a responsibilty as christians to make these people know wat our christian faith really is. i dont mean stand on the side of the street and start yelling at every1 for them to read the bible lol but by ur actions. be humble, pure in heart, have self-control, all these things make people change

    sorry i was a little of the topic- forgvie me.
    an no our will isnt limited thats why we are on this Earth cus we sin ;) lol
    take care guys
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