Theophilus, I love your signature icon. Everytime I see it, I expect great wisdom. Is this the persecuted HH Antonios?
I have a little different focus now. I hope that I am reinforcing Purity2's faith and wisdom. But I'm not at all able to add to her spiritual insight. It saddened me to download the link you provided. It is another sign of the overwhelming shift in all Western "christian" churches into a secular Freudian philosophy of "counselling." I know that this modern "scientific" fad now seems to also have been taken "hook, line and sinker" by all U.S. Coptic Bishops, too many other Coptic Bishops, and all but a few, "seasoned" priests. It's prominence is witnessed by the seemingly rapidly increasing rate of family and children destroying civil divorces by young Coptic wives. Of course, the Left Coast Diocese still seems to be well ahead of the other Coptic jurisdictions in its "hands off/never mentioned/psychological" response to this God hated family/children/church poisoning practice. Why does the Christian Orthodox spiritual tradition of the ancient Coptic Church now need atheism based Freudian trained "counsellors," priests and bishops? Whenever I notice that this miserably failed alternative to highly successful Christian Orthodox traditional spiritual scriptural teaching and life "counseling" is being proposed in our Coptic Church, I try to suggest an easy way to look at the Freudian Counseling/Therapy Industry's own propaganda/history documentary. I don't know of a more thorough resource than this BBC award winning documentary video: The Century of the Self. The whole story, from Freud himself, on to his imaginative disciples and alternatives, and through to the "genius" of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton is well presented here.
I also agree with Purity2's suggestion that many more than one anointing of the sick, prayers, fasts, repentances, intercessions, etc. should be sought for every need. Purity2's suggestion of Abouna Abraam's sermon on the The Man Born Blind is also a classic Coptic only (I think) "correct teaching." It is right here on Tasbeha, at Media/Live Broadcasts/Watch our YouTube channel. Why did Abouna criticize me?
Please pray for me.
Irishpilgrim,
Thank you for your kind words and Yes you are right it is the picture of the persecuted H.H. Abouna Antonios. He just “celebrated” his seventh year anniversary under house arrest this past January. He is an icon of St. Paul in Chains. Even as we are saddened by the current persecution we are proud for having such a brave father as our patriarch.
On the original topic I am sure a balanced approach can be used. But the question is what exactly would be considered balance. Well, I look forward to someone in the health care/mental health field to say more about their perspective.
Psychiatry, which deals with psychosis, which has proven to be related to certain neurotransmitter misfiring in the brain, is not freudian. I resent the rather silly and unhelpful suggestion that equates the neurobiology that supports the use of anti-psychotics to the philosophical suppositions of Freud. Modern science, psychology and sociology has moved away from Freud, and is based on empirical data and heavy research. It is disparaging to see anyone of great literacy and persuasion, discourage a really tormented soul and inhibit him from getting much needed help. Modern psychiatry and counselling is not perfect, but it has helped countless of people. I have never met a family destroyed by it, and I would offer that any observed trend is based on untreated problems or by culture, or *gasp* the nature of humanity.
I don't doubt a spiritual approach is needed, but psychosis is a brain disorder, a medical condition, and thus needs a medical approach *predominantly* (not exclusively).
Mike, get some help. You deserve it, mate. There is clozapine, zuclopenthixol and many other medications. Perhaps, it is your personality as schizoid, or perhaps you have a mood disorder. Regardless, go to the professionals!
Clozapine took away my sleep and ability to rest when I stopped it it increased my triponin levels leading to possible heart problems But Thank God I recovered from it I am on a new medicine now which is not having negative side effects which is Solian
Anyway I do believe the unction of the sick does heal with patience but it must be combined with medicine incase it is not a spiritual problem
I had not been fasting and praying which is probably why unction of the sick does not work as I am not repenting completely of my sin but grace is working a little in me
Why do some sicknesses not get healed
According to many spiritual people it is only lack of faith God does not want any to be sick except sinners like Jezebel and only for those who must be given a thorn in the flesh and he knows they will be happier sick as they will be able to bear more fruit
Better not to take any medicine incase side effects are too gruesome and do not go away but maybe they all go away
look at this: And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness."
most church fathers explain that saint paul had a physical condition, an illness. some people think he had blindness or some other eye problem, but it is not important what he had. (galatians 4:15 suggests he had eye problems)
what is important, is that God allowed him to have this illness. he did not have it because of his lack of faith. nowhere does he say that he avoided taking any medical treatment, just that he prayed, and God did not take the problem away. so this means we should accept the medical problems we have and ask God to help us to cope with the situation and help us to grow spiritually.
Christian life is not about running away from our problems or denying them. it is about praising God even through our problems and learning how to be a stronger Christian because of our problems.
i am glad you are feeling better, brother. please keep taking the medication prescribed by the doctor as this helps you to get better. may God give you the strength to cope with this illness until you get better and to grow closer to God in this time. :)
[quote author=clay link=topic=14167.msg165418#msg165418 date=1373541610] Psychiatry, which deals with psychosis, which has proven to be related to certain neurotransmitter misfiring in the brain, is not freudian. I resent the rather silly and unhelpful suggestion that equates the neurobiology that supports the use of anti-psychotics to the philosophical suppositions of Freud. Modern science, psychology and sociology has moved away from Freud, and is based on empirical data and heavy research. It is disparaging to see anyone of great literacy and persuasion, discourage a really tormented soul and inhibit him from getting much needed help. Modern psychiatry and counselling is not perfect, but it has helped countless of people. I have never met a family destroyed by it, and I would offer that any observed trend is based on untreated problems or by culture, or *gasp* the nature of humanity.
I don't doubt a spiritual approach is needed, but psychosis is a brain disorder, a medical condition, and thus needs a medical approach *predominantly* (not exclusively).
Mike, get some help. You deserve it, mate. There is clozapine, zuclopenthixol and many other medications. Perhaps, it is your personality as schizoid, or perhaps you have a mood disorder. Regardless, go to the professionals!
Hi Clay, You seem to be pretty deeply indoctrinated/propagandized in support of the psycho/pseudo "sciences." Are you one of these mercenary "professionals" that you are self-prescribing? Earlier I had recommended that those interested in understanding these speculative pseudo-sciences, consider the evasive "industry's" own award winning historical self-analysis, The Century of the Self. Has your personal study included consideration of the work and affects of these professional "scientific " forerunners? I had posted the following excerpt: Whenever I notice that this miserably failed alternative to highly successful Christian Orthodox traditional spiritual scriptural teaching and life "counseling" is being proposed in our Coptic Church, I try to suggest an easy way to look at the Freudian Counseling/Therapy Industry's own propaganda/history documentary. I don't know of a more thorough resource than this BBC award winning documentary video: The Century of the Self. The whole story, from Freud himself, on to his imaginative disciples and alternatives, and through to the "genius" of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton is well presented here. Would you broaden and deepen our understanding of your "science" with your suggestions of how we should interpret its advances up to about 2000 as described in The Century of the Self? Is a similarly descriptive up-date available, including the actual side effects of earlier versions of profitable unpronounceable miracle drugs? I've met many families that have been spiritually destroyed by heretical christian "feel good, be happy" psycho-counselling alternatives to the traditional scriptural family, marriage and gender commandments.
I am a physician. I have read and listened to lectures by experienced psychiatrists and psychologists that are well respected and have a proven track record. I have read research on journals that are rigorous, and comprehensive. I have been studying from books the like of which goes beyond anything you can imagine, starting from basic science of neurotransmitters and neurobiology. I have practiced terms in psychiatry in my residency.
I am not indoctrinated. I have pursued the science of medicine and practised its art, knowing the Lord has entrusted this to me. It is insulting and I will thoroughly defend all my colleagues from calling modern psyhiatry as speculative. Perhaps some methods of counselling are based on philosophy more than science, but they are not Freudian. They still heavily rely on empirical data and sociobiology.
Mike, If you have genuinely confessed your sins, then The Lord will forgive you. I remember a sermon where Pope Shenouda said "sometimes sins take time to conquer and God is more patient than we are." That is very true. Remember how the Holy Apostles walked with Jesus and yet sinned so many times? Did Jesus reject them? No. He forgave them and loved them. All the Saints have said: You cannot ever control what other people think about you. Plus, if you are living a life for The Lord, then you will be rejected by many people. Our Savior was rejected even by those that He healed. It may take a very long time for us to conquer some sins. If we don't forgive ourselves after we repent to God, then we are not trusting that God will forgive. If you love God (which you do) then you must trust that "your sins will be cast into the deepest sea" (directly from Scripture). I have anxiety and depression and use some medication for it. I wish I didn't need the medication, but for some reason I do. Recently, the Lord miraculously removed deep-seated anger from within. It just floated out of my body and hasn't returned! So you see, God can remove these burdens when we least expect it. In Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) there is a chapter which praises the work of physicians and pharmacists as if they were the instruments of the Lord on earth. There is nothing wrong with seeking expert Christian counselors and the medication that works for you. To echo what others have said, Mike, you are being obsessively hard on yourself, but that could be due to a medical condition. Finally, Father Daoud Lamey has an English translation of the reassuring, never ending love our Blessed Jesus has for us:
Please watch it as often as you need to and repeat to yourself, "Jesus forgives me and loves me forever." Say that whenever you have those bad feelings.
even though this is my field, and being a Freudian, I read the name mentioned, but I have not read all the posts... hence I'm not sure if by coughing you mean it in a literal term... if you feel you are TOO sinful to the point that it would effect your mental health, then you have no hope in the salvation you received. dont over judge yourself, live your life close to God... the beauty of Christianity is when you find the simplicity of Christianity. now for people thinking you are better than them or thinking they want to hold you down, this usually happens due to the warfare of the devil, but unfortunately, it means he is winning a battle, and that is the battle of pride, don't think you're doing better than anyone, or think you are doing less than anyone... don't worry about people, think about you.
Yes by coughing I meant literally. No matter what I do people are coughing because they think I am evil or they hate me. Maybe it is because of some of the beliefs I have. Its as if they know I am thinking thoughts that they don't like but it could be the devil or God trying to teach me correct theology. But I feel hated so I feel it is the devil. But my dad says this is my psychosis. I feel the devil would not have power to make others cough at me if I did not do any sins like masturbation. I don't feel hopeless because of any physical sins. It could be because of pride that the devil is attacking me or God makes them but how can one eliminate pride completely and we are taught to be good so we can obtain an eternal reward so what is wrong with pride? St Paul encourages it by saying and this light affliction which is but for a moment is working for us a more eternal weight of glory. I don't want to cause suffering to people by becoming greater than them but what purpose is there to life if there is no reward for doing good? I thought everyone who wins the race obtains the same reward and their sins are taken away. But I can not have any joy if I am not fulfilling my duty to others if I can infact make them repent because their sins is perhaps by my negligence so what reward do I have? and this thought really disturbs me when I am supposed to be studying.St Paul says his reward and crown is the salvation of others souls but ofcourse if spirituality hinders me from getting work done it could not be from God but I do not know how to make balance in my life. I may have to make my first duty towards all people in my life who I deal with.
Comments
Theophilus,
I love your signature icon. Everytime I see it, I expect great wisdom. Is this the persecuted HH Antonios?
I have a little different focus now. I hope that I am reinforcing Purity2's faith and wisdom. But I'm not at all able to add to her spiritual insight. It saddened me to download the link you provided. It is another sign of the overwhelming shift in all Western "christian" churches into a secular Freudian philosophy of "counselling." I know that this modern "scientific" fad now seems to also have been taken "hook, line and sinker" by all U.S. Coptic Bishops, too many other Coptic Bishops, and all but a few, "seasoned" priests. It's prominence is witnessed by the seemingly rapidly increasing rate of family and children destroying civil divorces by young Coptic wives. Of course, the Left Coast Diocese still seems to be well ahead of the other Coptic jurisdictions in its "hands off/never mentioned/psychological" response to this God hated family/children/church poisoning practice. Why does the Christian Orthodox spiritual tradition of the ancient Coptic Church now need atheism based Freudian trained "counsellors," priests and bishops? Whenever I notice that this miserably failed alternative to highly successful Christian Orthodox traditional spiritual scriptural teaching and life "counseling" is being proposed in our Coptic Church, I try to suggest an easy way to look at the Freudian Counseling/Therapy Industry's own propaganda/history documentary. I don't know of a more thorough resource than this BBC award winning documentary video: The Century of the Self. The whole story, from Freud himself, on to his imaginative disciples and alternatives, and through to the "genius" of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton is well presented here.
I also agree with Purity2's suggestion that many more than one anointing of the sick, prayers, fasts, repentances, intercessions, etc. should be sought for every need. Purity2's suggestion of Abouna Abraam's sermon on the The Man Born Blind is also a classic Coptic only (I think) "correct teaching." It is right here on Tasbeha, at Media/Live Broadcasts/Watch our YouTube channel. Why did Abouna criticize me?
Please pray for me.
Irishpilgrim,
Thank you for your kind words and Yes you are right it is the picture of the persecuted H.H. Abouna Antonios. He just “celebrated” his seventh year anniversary under house arrest this past January. He is an icon of St. Paul in Chains. Even as we are saddened by the current persecution we are proud for having such a brave father as our patriarch.
On the original topic I am sure a balanced approach can be used. But the question is what exactly would be considered balance. Well, I look forward to someone in the health care/mental health field to say more about their perspective.
In Christ,
Theophilus
I don't doubt a spiritual approach is needed, but psychosis is a brain disorder, a medical condition, and thus needs a medical approach *predominantly* (not exclusively).
Mike, get some help. You deserve it, mate.
There is clozapine, zuclopenthixol and many other medications. Perhaps, it is your personality as schizoid, or perhaps you have a mood disorder. Regardless, go to the professionals!
But Thank God I recovered from it
I am on a new medicine now which is not having negative side effects which is Solian
Anyway I do believe the unction of the sick does heal with patience but it must be combined with medicine incase it is not a spiritual problem
I had not been fasting and praying which is probably why unction of the sick does not work
as I am not repenting completely of my sin but grace is working a little in me
Why do some sicknesses not get healed
According to many spiritual people it is only lack of faith God does not want any to be sick except sinners like Jezebel and only for those who must be given a thorn in the flesh and he knows they will be happier sick as they will be able to bear more fruit
Better not to take any medicine incase side effects are too gruesome and do not go away but maybe they all go away
2Cor 11:16-end ; 2Cor 12:1-12
http://www.copticchurch.net/cgibin/bible/index.php?r=2Cor+11:16-end+;+2Cor+12:1-12&version=NKJV&showVN=1
look at this:
And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness."
most church fathers explain that saint paul had a physical condition, an illness.
some people think he had blindness or some other eye problem, but it is not important what he had.
(galatians 4:15 suggests he had eye problems)
what is important, is that God allowed him to have this illness.
he did not have it because of his lack of faith.
nowhere does he say that he avoided taking any medical treatment, just that he prayed, and God did not take the problem away.
so this means we should accept the medical problems we have and ask God to help us to cope with the situation and help us to grow spiritually.
Christian life is not about running away from our problems or denying them.
it is about praising God even through our problems and learning how to be a stronger Christian because of our problems.
i am glad you are feeling better, brother.
please keep taking the medication prescribed by the doctor as this helps you to get better.
may God give you the strength to cope with this illness until you get better and to grow closer to God in this time.
:)
Psychiatry, which deals with psychosis, which has proven to be related to certain neurotransmitter misfiring in the brain, is not freudian. I resent the rather silly and unhelpful suggestion that equates the neurobiology that supports the use of anti-psychotics to the philosophical suppositions of Freud. Modern science, psychology and sociology has moved away from Freud, and is based on empirical data and heavy research. It is disparaging to see anyone of great literacy and persuasion, discourage a really tormented soul and inhibit him from getting much needed help. Modern psychiatry and counselling is not perfect, but it has helped countless of people. I have never met a family destroyed by it, and I would offer that any observed trend is based on untreated problems or by culture, or *gasp* the nature of humanity.
I don't doubt a spiritual approach is needed, but psychosis is a brain disorder, a medical condition, and thus needs a medical approach *predominantly* (not exclusively).
Mike, get some help. You deserve it, mate.
There is clozapine, zuclopenthixol and many other medications. Perhaps, it is your personality as schizoid, or perhaps you have a mood disorder. Regardless, go to the professionals!
Hi Clay, You seem to be pretty deeply indoctrinated/propagandized in support of the psycho/pseudo "sciences." Are you one of these mercenary "professionals" that you are self-prescribing? Earlier I had recommended that those interested in understanding these speculative pseudo-sciences, consider the evasive "industry's" own award winning historical self-analysis, The Century of the Self. Has your personal study included consideration of the work and affects of these professional "scientific " forerunners? I had posted the following excerpt: Whenever I notice that this miserably failed alternative to highly successful Christian Orthodox traditional spiritual scriptural teaching and life "counseling" is being proposed in our Coptic Church, I try to suggest an easy way to look at the Freudian Counseling/Therapy Industry's own propaganda/history documentary. I don't know of a more thorough resource than this BBC award winning documentary video: The Century of the Self. The whole story, from Freud himself, on to his imaginative disciples and alternatives, and through to the "genius" of Tony Blair and Bill Clinton is well presented here.
I am not indoctrinated. I have pursued the science of medicine and practised its art, knowing the Lord has entrusted this to me. It is insulting and I will thoroughly defend all my colleagues from calling modern psyhiatry as speculative. Perhaps some methods of counselling are based on philosophy more than science, but they are not Freudian. They still heavily rely on empirical data and sociobiology.
If you have genuinely confessed your sins, then The Lord will forgive you. I remember a sermon where Pope Shenouda said "sometimes sins take time to conquer and God is more patient than we are." That is very true. Remember how the Holy Apostles walked with Jesus and yet sinned so many times? Did Jesus reject them? No. He forgave them and loved them. All the Saints have said: You cannot ever control what other people think about you. Plus, if you are living a life for The Lord, then you will be rejected by many people. Our Savior was rejected even by those that He healed. It may take a very long time for us to conquer some sins. If we don't forgive ourselves after we repent to God, then we are not trusting that God will forgive. If you love God (which you do) then you must trust that "your sins will be cast into the deepest sea" (directly from Scripture).
I have anxiety and depression and use some medication for it. I wish I didn't need the medication, but for some reason I do. Recently, the Lord miraculously removed deep-seated anger from within. It just floated out of my body and hasn't returned! So you see, God can remove these burdens when we least expect it. In Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) there is a chapter which praises the work of physicians and pharmacists as if they were the instruments of the Lord on earth. There is nothing wrong with seeking expert Christian counselors and the medication that works for you. To echo what others have said, Mike, you are being obsessively hard on yourself, but that could be due to a medical condition. Finally, Father Daoud Lamey has an English translation of the reassuring, never ending love our Blessed Jesus has for us:
Please watch it as often as you need to and repeat to yourself, "Jesus forgives me and loves me forever." Say that whenever you have those bad feelings.
The Lord bless you, Mike.