Hello brothers and sisters,
I don't know where to start. Long story short, I recently found out that my girlfriend of almost 4 years has been talking to some guy in secret for a while and hiding it from me (by while I mean 2-3 months). I confronted her about it and she was crying the whole time saying that she made the biggest mistake of her life and that she just got embarrassed or reluctant to tell this guy (who was in her class) that she had a boyfriend and things took off from there.
The first time I confronted her I was out of my mind in pain and I just hung up on her while she was crying (Cannot explain how I feel). I then spoke to her again when I was calm and got the details of what happened and they basically hung out a few times and she told me the most that happened was "a few hugs and they held hands". I asked her if she liked him and she said that she didn't understand how she could like him while she loved me. all this while apologizing every 10 seconds and saying a bunch of "im weak and I was easily persuaded". I then told her I'd take time to pray about it and decide what I will do. The last thing she said to me was basically that she "wants our relationship more than anything in the world and she is beating herself up because she messed up the most beautiful thing she had in her life, and destroyed the relationship with her best friend (me). I am sorry I know I have hurt you beyond words and I deserve to be treated like scum"
To give you guys some context we go to the same church, both in 20's and my FOC knows about her and is okay with this relationship (before these events obviously). If you're wondering how something like this could fly by me its because I have been busy with school and work and so on, and I guess I just really trusted her. I trusted this girl with my life and she threw it all away for something so stupid and meaningless. you have to understand I thought I was gonna spend the rest of my life with this girl and never ever in my wildest dreams thought anything like this could happen.
I don't know what to do... I am in so much pain because I really loved this girl. I think as hard as it sounds I could find it in me to forgive her, but how am I supposed to ever trust ANYONE (let alone her) again. Am I overreacting in this whole thing? what would you do in my position... any advice would help. Any readings you think may help me from anywhere please I need any sort of comfort right now. Part of me still loves her but part of me just doesn't understand how this could have happened if she loved me.
Please I need all your prayers right now to help me get through this time of hardship... and pray for her too please.
Thank you and sorry for the long post
Comments
I do agree that there are parallels I guess I can say I have a glimpse of an idea of how God feels when I sin against him... its horrible.
I would forgive, but I don't agree with the arrangement anyway, as we don't have boyfriend- girlfriend unless it's an engagement. Are you engaged? If not, then the committment was less assured.
Forgive and start again and lead her in a way that she is comfortable. I don't think she trusted herself, so talk to her.
I would suggest that you consider this experience as a blessing to enable you to end this dangerous dating circumstance and avoid similar spiritual dangers in the future. The Coptic Church has provided unique and invaluable guidance, against the norms of the Godless modern culture in which you are struggling, in this area. As I am sure that you now realize, you are now a spiritually "used/damaged" commodity in this area. You likely can never restore the innocence that you have squandered. You've probably developed habits and insensitivities that are hard to break. You know which acquaintences, including your "girl friend," who are a danger to your return to similar circumstances. You should accept this struggle with as much strength and prayer as you can. Did I understand that your FOC encouraged you in this relationship? It does not serve as a good moral model for younger members of your parish.
Sadly, most of the new (and too many old) generation of current Coptic priests and bishops are adopting or acquiescing to the root causes of the current decay of traditional patriarchal scriptural gender and family theology. The root cause is the modern secular rebellion against God's general patriarchal order of all creation. The major strategies and justifications of this rebellion are contained in the principles and objectives of feminism and freudianism. Everywhere you look or listen to the non-liturgical functions in our church, these signs are growing more prominent. If you listen very carefully, you will even detect them casually inserted into some liturgies, especially the Marriage Liturgy.
This is relevant to your situation as a young, struggling Coptic man because you seem to be looking forward to marrying and having a family. Here, the U.S. (I don't have experience with foreign jurisdictions) civil divorce industry thrives by encouraging and subsidizing young wives, with young children, to rebel against the authority that God has given to their husbands in their families; and through "no-fault" civil divorce be given complete control of the family, subsidized with criminally enforced "child support" payments by the God ordained father head of that family. The silent growth in numbers of wife caused civil divorces in young Coptic families (California, of course is leading the movement) is falling into the pattern experienced by the divorce rate growth in the U. S. Protestant and Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) churches of the earlier generation. These churches now have a rate of divorce broken families (and most shameful, consequently traumatized innocent children) nearly the same as the general, Godless, U. S. population. This is all, apparently, comfortable for the U. S. Coptic bishops, priests and freudians, who have silently shrugged to the hundreds of young Coptic husbands who have sought their assistance, in this situation, over the past 20-30 years. In this regard, I think it has become essential for young men who are inclined to seek marriage, and a profession or business, to insist on a pre-nuptual marriage contract that is designed to protect his God ordained status and authority as father head of his children in the event that his wife joins the rebellion and seeks civil divorce. This process will eliminate wife candidates who secretly want to hold on to the divorce trump card. It will also discourage a wife who might later become persuaded, by her financially successful divorcee girl friends.
My point is that a young Coptic man's proper preparation for marriage and a family is not a casual, feel good, be happy endeavor. A disloyal girl, or one from a spiritually casual family (and parish, or even State) is not a wise choice. This girl's family and priest/bishop doesn't seem to have taught her to properly respect her own spirituality. Of course, you don't seem to be innocent, either. This is sad, what is its reasonable future? Should we be more ecumenical and start training our own divorce lawyers, like the Protestants, Catholics and Greeks? Fight and struggle your way off of this wrong road.
Please pray for me, pray for a new Pope who isn't ashamed to teach the, seemingly forgotten, family and gender theology that Jesus taught to St. Peter and that he passed, on, for about 1950 years, to the whole true Christian church through his own, St. Peter's First Epistle.
As for me, I know nothing about relationships, but I feel for you, my brother. I will add my unworthy prayers to those of my brothers and sisters for you.
I am a terrible fool,
RO
You are wonderful ReturnOrthodoxy! You know how to repent. We are foolish, and from there we can learn about ourselves and others.
I pray you find a wife mrLOSTinLIFE because:
Proverbs 18:22
He who finds a wife has a good thing.
And obtains favour from the Lord.
I recommend you read all his previous posts to make your own conclusions regarding his views. I recommend you take his perspective on this issue as highly biased.
RO
I recommend you read all of ReturnOrthodoxy's previous posts to make your own conclusions regarding his views. I recommend you take his perspective on this issue as EXTREMELY biased.
Anyways, I dont think what she did is wrong. Since you are not married, she is not obliged to commit to you and was probably not convinced that this was wrong. In the old days in America, it was common for a man to have a three or four girlfiends at a time. (Though, they were generally chaste relationships). They didnt commit to one person until they were married.
my opinions on other issues do not cuse a bias for this young man. My opinions regarding the patriarchal elections have no bearing on anything to do with marital issues. I have never once commented on relationship issues, so I could not possibly have a bias, and even if I did, I did not give an opinion on this thread regarding relationships. I did not discredit irishpligrim, but I wanted our friend to get proper advice and get the whole picture. So am I biased? I ask for reason for your claim. I am biased towards beef over chicken, but that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Please do not turn this into a debate as to who is the better person. It is about a young man in pain, seeking proper guidance.
I will continue to pray for you, MrLOSTinLIFE, and I hope that you can filter out banter from truth, and that you will make the right decisions, apart from any anger-directed posts which take away from the reality of the issue you are dealing with.
I am a terrible fool,
RO
[quote author=ReturnOrthodoxy link=topic=13743.msg160270#msg160270 date=1349107752]
I recommend you read all his previous posts to make your own conclusions regarding his views. I recommend you take his perspective on this issue as highly biased.
RO
I recommend you read all of ReturnOrthodoxy's previous posts to make your own conclusions regarding his views. I recommend you take his perspective on this issue as EXTREMELY biased.
Anyways, I dont think what she did is wrong. Since you are not married, she is not obliged to commit to you and was probably not convinced that this was wrong. In the old days in America, it was common for a man to have a three or four girlfiends at a time. (Though, they were generally chaste relationships). They didnt commit to one person until they were married.
Are you recommending an adulterous relationship before marriage is alright because everyones doing it?
I read from both people you talked about and both are concerned about the church. Both that it is losing it's integrity, but only from one that it the cause of his own unhappyness. I understand why because it is like the government and the church did not help him. That is a lot of people who aren't supporting him. But that she was allowed to leave the relationship, and this is sad. As christians we take the suffering not for our sake but for God's. So where to from there?
Anyways, I dont think what she did is wrong. Since you are not married, she is not .jobliged to commit to you and was probably not convinced that this was wrong. In theold days in America, it was common for a man to have a three or four girlfiends at a time. (Though, they were generally chaste relationships). They didnt commit to one person until they were married.
Somali,
j
Anyways, I dont think what she did is wrong. Since you are not married, she is not obliged to commit to you and was probably not convinced that this was wrong. In the old days in America, it was common for a man to have a three or four girlfiends at a time. (Though, they were generally chaste relationships). They didnt commit to one person until they were married.
Somali,
Are you Coptic Orthodox? Because clearly your views aren't rooted from the true faith, but rather the demonic, sinful and ungodly west. Committing to numerous individuals at one time is nothing other than sin. Nevertheless, I'm certain that if MrLOSTinLIFE asked his FOC regarding such a thought, he too would certainly disagree. Please be cautious as this is not a matter to be taken lightly, as ones salvation is at hand.
P.S. Forgive me if I was a bit rude, but I felt the need to be as candid as possible.
Your brother in Christ,
Monasticsx
Anyways, I dont think what she did is wrong. Since you are not married, she is not obliged to commit to you and was probably not convinced that this was wrong. In the old days in America, it was common for a man to have a three or four girlfiends at a time. (Though, they were generally chaste relationships). They didnt commit to one person until they were married.
With all due respect, I don't think you can give out this advice in good conscience.
Young men and women are working towards entering into a sacrament, developing trust and understanding is paramount. When a couple stands before God at the Altar, they need to be certain that they're both giving all of their hearts to each other and God with nothing held back. They're not just making a simple pact with one another, they're entering into a mystery with God Himself as the source of their union. The love that they have at that time is just the starting point for building something much bigger and greater. To get there they will navigate the rough sea of life together, confront the weaknesses and sins of one another with kindness and patience. This is something painfully hard to do apart from God's love working in us.
If we're going to encourage people to spend time with different people at the same time, like its a game, how will that couple know they can trust the other person? Can they dedicate their heart to this person for the rest of their life? There is so much temptation around us in society, encouraging young males and females to be more loose and open with commitment before marriage is something bad for all concerned. Our Churches are very small communities, if one guy spends time with lots of women or vice versa, it causes problems. If you marry someone whose courted with 8 or 9 women from Church, it makes things awkward if you need to see these 8 or 9 people every Sunday. I also think its appalling that anyone would consider courting more than one woman at a time.
Did Christ court with more than one Church before He wedded her through His death on the cross? Heaven forbid. The relationship that we're trying to achieve is sacred and we must try to be sacred in preparation when seeking to enter into that mystery.
As others have said I would conclude if what your saying is true then traditional American society is a poor icon of how courting ought to be done in an Orthodox way. Do not be surprised if Orthodoxy challenges your values, Christ not only challenged values, He topples whole rules and kingdoms and in the end only one is left - His.
Forgive my weakness,
LiD