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Servants in Church

peter_saadpeter_saad
edited December 1969 in Faith Issues
In my church, we have many servants, but I feel  as if we just welcome everyone who graduates High School to the service?

Forgive me, but I feel like I am the only servant who actually comes to the liturgy, and cares about church. The girls show up at the end of liturgy, and only 2 of the guys are deacons, and no one else comes to the liturgy! (not to mention no one fasts either) I feel like sometimes they feel like they are forced to serve or they're just doing it because their friends are. I feel like the only reason they serve is to replace their love and attendance in the church. As if they are somehow balancing it out.

I'm sorry to judge, but I'm a very critical person, and my standards and love for the church is just so much different. It really does dissapoint me more than anything to see that God's servants have reached this level of doing the bear minimum to please God?

What should do? Or maybe I should just keep to myself??

Comments

  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    In answer to your first question, I would answer:  YES.

    As for the rest of your comments:  No Comment.
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    Set an example. Speak to your priest. That is all you can do.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    That problem is definitely not limited to your church. Believe me it is much worse at my own church. We have about 60-70 Sunday School servants and a VERY small number of them do anything more than 1 hour a week to serve the kids let alone come to the liturgical services late while neglecting asheya, tasbeha, fasting, etc. Now my problem with this is not that they aren't good enough to serve or that they need to work on their spiritual lives. My problem is that it is the wrong example and message to the kids. It teaches them that one can serve God without really serving God. It teaches the kids that church isn't that important. Because if my amazing servant doesn't go to asheya, why should I?

    Look to your own shortcomings in the service and perfect yourself - lest you be the one who takes the speck from his brother's eye while the plank remains in your own.

    Equally important is to be a light (as Cephas said) to them.
  • peter_saadpeter_saad
    That's the thing. I can't even talk to my priest because I feel like he doesn't have any problem with it. He's too nice! For example, he used to always say no deacons can dress after the agpeya prayers and no one can take communion. I was happy when he used to say that, but now people come at the end of the mass and still take communion. Also, 2 weeks ago, Abouna gave the servants absolution to not fast because they were going on a 'retreat.' and they didnt attend St. Mary's Feast. There are even some people who prepare their sunday school lesson DURING the liturgy.

    Forgive me, I really don't mean to judge anyone. I'm just a critical person, and I'm usually the one to make excuses for others. I am just worried about their own spiritual lives, and for the kids that they are influencing.
  • ophadeceophadece
    It is good to be concerned of other people's spiritual lives, as they are your brothers and sisters, but as long as abouna is doing that, it is totally up to him, not you. If you have good rapport with him, talk to him about it truthfully, and tell him it doesn't sit right with you. I can see the best thing to do is to pray for them, and for me and my wife...
    Oujai qen `P[C
  • HolmesHolmes
    + Irini nem ehmot,

    Fact of the matter is, the only person who can do anything about this issue directly is your priest. If he is too nice, well, there really isn't anything more you can do. Just set an example and pray and hope it rubs off. Don't let it bother you. Focus on yourself, your own faults and your own spiritual life and you will find that you won't have the time (or the mental energy) to focus on anyone or anything else.
  • kirollos3kirollos3
    something that helps is choosing someone close to you with your trust .. and that has a close problem too and togther try to help each other .. threw phones , FB .. or anything and try to do anything . you must WANT from your heart to be with him and not because you are forced and that is how i think of it . God bless you
  • [Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    Your use of quotation marks around the word rigorous says it all. In my own experience the two year program was anything but rigorous. In the end what is important is that the servant loves the children as Christ would.
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    The bowing of Our Lord to wash the feet of the Apostles says it all.

    I wonder, do our deacons and servants lower themselves?
  • ilovesaintmarkilovesaintmark
    The Harvest is great, but the laborers are few.

    12 Apostles...the whole world...interesting.

    Quality vs. quantity.

    Quality.
  • minatasgeelminatasgeel
    [quote author=ilovesaintmark link=topic=12251.msg144502#msg144502 date=1315768654]
    The Harvest is great, but the laborers are few.

    12 Apostles...the whole world...interesting.

    Quality vs. quantity.

    Quality.

    i just wish people see that all the time.
  • RemnkemiRemnkemi
    [quote author=peter_saad link=topic=12251.msg144053#msg144053 date=1314911340]
    Forgive me, but I feel like I am the only servant who actually comes to the liturgy, and cares about church.

    This is not directed at any one person.

    Forgive me for saying this, but are we being short-sighted here? In Isaiah 55:8, 9 God says, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
    Is it possible that we judge our actions and the actions of others in the light of mortal thoughts instead of heavenly foresight? How do we know that one who goes to liturgy everyday cares about the church and God's covenant while the one who doesn't go daily to church does not care about God's covenant and commandments? It's easy for our human minds to convince ourselves that those who are not present or working like us must be against us or just don't care. Look at 1 Kings 19. Elijah says to God, "“I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.” (emphasis mine). Elijah judges the Israelites and convicts them as worshipers of Baal, murders of prophets and traitors of God's covenant. This is very similar as those who see fellow-servants and fellow parishioners appearing to be lukewarm in their service, somehow abandoning God's covenant and replacing it by "worshiping" other desires. In the end of Elijah's story, God reveals to Elijah that he is not the only one who follows God's covenant. There are seven thousand Israelites who have not abandoned God's covenant. It's just Elijah didn't see it.

    I am not giving an excuse for people to be lukewarm. Those who are truly lukewarm in their covenant with God "will be spit out of His mouth" (Rev 3:16). This is truly a despicable punishment. But sometimes the problem is not really lukewarmness in other, but our unfair judgment in them. This is a normal human reaction. This is why it is addressed so many times in the scriptures. Let us pray that God opens our eyes like He did with Elijah and so many others who seek His help.

    I hope I have not offended anyone.
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    Thanks for sharing Remnkemi. I definitely needed to hear that.
  • peter_saadpeter_saad
    Thank you, Remnkemi.

    That was a perfect story to put it in. I always try to convince myself that I am worse than all the others, but sometimes its just hard not to judge  and criticize others. For example, I went to a wedding reception last night, and I felt like I didn't belong at all. The servants were dancing together and dressed like the rest of the world. And I asked myself..Are we TRULY servants of God? People are supposed to look at us, and not see the world in us. We have to be the image of Christ. And I'm usually the one to make excuses for others and try to be open-minded, but there's limits to everything. If we don't notice our mistakes, how will we ever fix them? I was just so disgusted by how the servants were acting last night, that I had to leave.

    And I feel like all of them look at me and think that I'm better than them because I'm not dancing or doing the things they're doing. They joke around sometimes and say, "Why aren't you dancing, Abouna Peter?"  But that's not my intention at all. I'm the worst of them and I sin more than all of them combined...so I'm just lost at how I should go about talking to them (if I should talk to them).
  • d.rollinsd.rollins
    [quote author=kirollos3 link=topic=12251.msg144354#msg144354 date=1315455505]
    something that helps is choosing someone close to you with your trust .. and that has a close problem too and togther try to help each other .. threw phones , FB .. or anything and try to do anything . you must WANT from your heart to be with him and not because you are forced and that is how i think of it . God bless you


    this is the best answer which is provided here in this topic. nothing to add here. i totally agree.
  • TimothymTimothym
    no offense man but there is nothing wrong with dancing (with others)...unless you think you are tempted to dance in a lustful way. Did you recently arrive from Egypt by the way?? Just loosen up a bit, be harsh on yourself but not on others. Cheers
  • andrew8345andrew8345
    [quote author=Timothym link=topic=12251.msg144734#msg144734 date=1316045918]
    no offense man but there is nothing wrong with dancing (with others)...unless you think you are tempted to dance in a lustful way. Did you recently arrive from Egypt by the way?? Just loosen up a bit, be harsh on yourself but not on others. Cheers


    What do you think they were doing the macarena?  :)

    I'm sure by the fact the Peter left the wedding it was probably lustful.
  • peter_saadpeter_saad
    haha It wasnt really lustful. It's just not right that servants and Sunday School teachers and deacons danced and dressed in such a way. Forgive me, but  I just  dont see how you can serve God and the world at the same time. 
  • George_Mina_Awad
    [quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=12251.msg144743#msg144743 date=1316052477]
    [quote author=Timothym link=topic=12251.msg144734#msg144734 date=1316045918]
    no offense man but there is nothing wrong with dancing (with others)...unless you think you are tempted to dance in a lustful way. Did you recently arrive from Egypt by the way?? Just loosen up a bit, be harsh on yourself but not on others. Cheers


    What do you think they were doing the macarena?  :)

    I'm sure by the fact the Peter left the wedding it was probably lustful.


    I've always loved how some people seem to think that weddings are a free ticket to get drunk and dress and dance however they want without any boundaries. Sometimes it's just way over the top.
  • TimothymTimothym
    George, I agree with you definitely in that many a time, weddings can be over the top. There is a difference between not dancing because the very idea of dancing seems sinful (which to me seems more of an adopted Islamic thought) and grinding away or bellydancing to the point that your clothes are about to fall off. I mean back in Egypt in our grandparents days as we see in the media of the time, people danced all the time at functions...then again they also seemed to have been much more classier than we are today. And I didn't mention anything about getting inebriated although drinking alcohol in itself and within limits is of course not wrong. Christ came to set us free and its in knowing our boundaries and sticking to them when we are truly free.
  • peter_saadpeter_saad
    [quote author=Chianapandra link=topic=12251.msg145220#msg145220 date=1317023502]
    Forgive me, but I feel like I am the only servant who actually comes to the liturgy, and cares about church. The girls show up at the end of liturgy, and only 2 of the guys are deacons, and no one else comes to the liturgy! (not to mention no one fasts either) I feel like sometimes they feel like they are forced to serve or they're just doing it because their friends are. I feel like the only reason they serve is to replace their love and attendance in the church. As if they are somehow balancing it out.

    I'm sorry to judge, but I'm a very critical person, and my standards and love for the church is just so much different. It really does dissapoint me more than anything to see that God's servants have reached this level of doing the bear minimum to please God?

    What should do? Or maybe I should just keep to myself??


    ?? didnt  i post this? lol
  • George_Mina_Awad
    Yeah....that confused me lol
  • SilentOneSilentOne
    It's a bot - second time it happened; already reported it.
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