Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- All Categories 13.8K
- General Category 10.9K
- General Announcements 184
- Faith Issues 3.4K
- Coptic Orthodox Church 2.5K
- Personal Issues 1.4K
- Prayer Requests 423
- Random Issues 1.8K
- Introductions 294
- Non-Orthodox Inquiries 232
- Youth Corner 606
- Hymns 2.5K
- Hymns Discussion 2.5K
- Technicial Difficulties 368
- Technical Topics 368
Did Satan know of Jesus' Divinity?
In an exposition of the 6th hour Gospels (during Good Friday) St. Dionysius the Areopagite says that "through the Divine Providence of God, that he covered Himself in humanity, thus shielding His Divinity from the devil till he released Adam from his lordship and inherited Eternal Life"
St. Dionysius then goes on to explain, "that when she [St Mary] had fallen pregnant, Satan assumed it was due to Joseph and overlooked the saying of Isaiah, "behold, the virgin shall conceive & bear a Son and you shall call His name Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:14)"
I always thought satan was mindful of Christ's Divinity. ALL these prophecies are a clear give away. So was Satan aware that Jesus was the Son of God?
St. Dionysius then goes on to explain, "that when she [St Mary] had fallen pregnant, Satan assumed it was due to Joseph and overlooked the saying of Isaiah, "behold, the virgin shall conceive & bear a Son and you shall call His name Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:14)"
I always thought satan was mindful of Christ's Divinity. ALL these prophecies are a clear give away. So was Satan aware that Jesus was the Son of God?
Comments
To be blunt I find most of the content on here pretty boring so full marks to you for an interesting one!
Seraphim
Lol! If you find the questions boring here, and certainly they are sometimes the same questions, then ask some good ones yourself.
I will try to answer this one in due course, but it has been a busy week.
Father Peter
(Seriously, isn't everything that actually is a topic eventually responded to?)
about the question, we had a sermon about it a few weeks ago and abouna said that satan suspected it but was trying to check it out.
that is why satan gave all those testing questions when Jesus was tempted in the desert 'IF you are the Son of man...'
i didn't quiz abouna on his sources, but he has studied theology loads.
Satan observed the miracles and would think that Jesus is truly the Son of God, then again he sees Him sleep, weep, poor, ...
So, Satan was not sure. Jesus overcame Satan through His humility that is foreign to Satan.
Thanks and God Bless
Is that true? :-\
In an exposition of the 6th hour Gospels (during Good Friday) St. Dionysius the Areopagite says that "through the Divine Providence of God, that he covered Himself in humanity, thus shielding His Divinity from the devil till he released Adam from his lordship and inherited Eternal Life"
But wasn't Christ's answer of “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’” (Matthew 4:7) more than enough to reveal the fact of His divinity to Satan?
Mabsoota and imikhail you make good points, but what confuses me is Luke 4:41 "And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ,[a] the Son of God!” And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ." ???
as to 'son of God', maybe again this was guess-work, trying to provoke Jesus into admitting it. note that he never said to them that they were right.
note i'm not a theologian, so i hope someone who knows better adds some more to this :)
George_Mina_Awad you read my mind!
Mabsoota and imikhail you make good points, but what confuses me is Luke 4:41 "And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ,[a] the Son of God!” And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ." ???
It does not hurt to research the forum to see if the topic has been already discussed. check if you can find some answers http://tasbeha.org/content/community/index.php/topic,7077.0.html
Do some more research, maybe you find more information.
I think, when Christ died on the cross and the devil came to claim His soul, he realised that he had no power over Him. "The passion of Christ" movie indicates this, i think.Until that point, satan was not sure.
But wasn't Christ's answer of “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’” (Matthew 4:7) more than enough to reveal the fact of His divinity to Satan?
Here, Christ refers to falling down so as to have the angels minister to him as tempting God. He doesn't refer to himself here, but rather to the devil telling him to tempt the Father.
I pray you are all well in Christ as we begin this Holy Fifty Days.
Provided below is a quote from St. Cyril of Alexandria's commentary on the Gospel of Luke. It is just one of many examples of how the Fathers answered the question posed in this topic.
4:3. And the devil said unto him.
Then the devil draweth near to tempt Him; expecting that the feeling of hunger would aid him in his innate wickedness: for oftentimes he prevails over us by taking our infirmities to aid his plots and enterprizes. He thought that He would readily jump at the wish of seeing bread ready for His use: and therefore he said, "If Thou be the Son of God, bid this stone become bread." He approaches Him therefore as an ordinary man, and as one of the saints: yet he had a suspicion, that possibly He might be the Christ. In what way then did he wish to learn this? He considered, that to change the nature of any thing into that which it was not, would be the act and deed of a divine power: for it is God Who makes these things and transforms them: if therefore, says he, this be done, certainly He it is Who is looked for as the subverter of my power: but if He refuse to work this change, I have to do with a man, and cast away my fear, and am delivered from my danger. And therefore it was that Christ, knowing the monster's artifice, neither made the change, nor said that He was either unable or unwilling to make it, but rather shakes him off as importunate and officious, saying that "man shall not live by bread alone;" by which He means, that if God grant a man the power, he can subsist without eating, and live as Moses and Elias, who by the Word of the Lord passed forty days without taking food. If therefore it is possible to live without bread, why should I make the stone bread? But He purposely does not say, I cannot, that He may not deny His own power: nor does He say, I can; lest the other, knowing that He is God, to Whom alone such things are possible, should depart from Him.
...
Satan then made use of these verses, as though the Saviour were a common man. For being entirely darkness, and having his mind blinded, he understood not the force of what was said, that the psalm is spoken in the person of every just man who is aided by the Highest, even the God of heaven. And besides this, He knew not that the Word being God, was made man, and was Himself now being tempted in accordance with the plan of salvation. He therefore, as I said, supposed the words were spoken as of a common man, or oven as of one of the holy prophets. But it is monstrous for us, who accurately know the mystery, and believe that He is God and the Son of God, and that for our sakes He became man like unto us, to imagine that the verses were spoken of Him. To say then, "Thou hast made the Most High thy refuge," befits not the person of the Saviour. For He is Himself the Most High: the refuge of all: the hope of all: the all-powerful right hand of the Father: and whosoever has made Him his defence, no evil shall approach him. For He shall command the angels, who are ministering spirits, to guard the just. For just as our fathers in the flesh, when they see the path rough and impassable, catch up their infants in their hands, lest perchance their tender feet should be hurt, being as yet unable to walk over the hard road, so also the rational powers do not permit those, who are as yet unable to labour, and whose understanding is still childish, to toil beyond their strength, but snatch them out of every temptation.
Keep me in your fervent prayers,
childoforthodoxy
Our Lord was saying that we must not test God (by throwing ourselves off a roof) and not that Satan must not tempt him because he is God.
;D, I spent almost 10 minutes trying to word it that simply and all I ended up doing was just confusing myself >:(
"And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth Shall fall down before him on their faces,And WORSHIP and set their hope upon that Son of Man,"explicitly proving the Messiah being God and in no way he could have forgot this verse,but the controversy is, He might have doubted if jesus christ was the True Messiah or not and He might also doubted his Divinity by the deluded belief of the jews that "God can't become man".
Also, every time when God is being asked who he is, he never answers by saying, "I am God" but, "Do you want to know for the sake of knowing, or do you want to know because they asked you to" (when he was talking to Pilates). When Herodes asked God if he can perform a miracle, God easily could have but didn't since he knew the Devil was watching him. So Herodes claimed that he was crazy and he is not going to punish him. At the end of the movie after God died from the cross, the devil became furious since he realized God is really God.
The only time that God admits to being the King of Kings is in Book Peter (i think) since he knew the devil was not hearing him.
Hope that helped (:
We must be cautious as to what it is that we cite as appropriate sources in explaining our faith. We also need to learn to rely on the writings of the Fathers and less so on our own thoughts.
Please read my previous post above. St. Cyril of Alexandria, the Pillar of Orthodoxy, has already answered the question for us.
Childoforthodoxy
Christ is Risen! Truly He is Risen!
4:3. And the devil said unto him.
Then the devil draweth near to tempt Him; expecting that the feeling of hunger would aid him in his innate wickedness: for oftentimes he prevails over us by taking our infirmities to aid his plots and enterprizes. He thought that He would readily jump at the wish of seeing bread ready for His use: and therefore he said, "If Thou be the Son of God, bid this stone become bread." He approaches Him therefore as an ordinary man, and as one of the saints: yet he had a suspicion, that possibly He might be the Christ. In what way then did he wish to learn this? He considered, that to change the nature of any thing into that which it was not, would be the act and deed of a divine power: for it is God Who makes these things and transforms them: if therefore, says he, this be done, certainly He it is Who is looked for as the subverter of my power: but if He refuse to work this change, I have to do with a man, and cast away my fear, and am delivered from my danger. And therefore it was that Christ, knowing the monster's artifice, neither made the change, nor said that He was either unable or unwilling to make it, but rather shakes him off as importunate and officious, saying that "man shall not live by bread alone;" by which He means, that if God grant a man the power, he can subsist without eating, and live as Moses and Elias, who by the Word of the Lord passed forty days without taking food. If therefore it is possible to live without bread, why should I make the stone bread? But He purposely does not say, I cannot, that He may not deny His own power: nor does He say, I can; lest the other, knowing that He is God, to Whom alone such things are possible, should depart from Him.
...
Satan then made use of these verses, as though the Saviour were a common man. For being entirely darkness, and having his mind blinded, he understood not the force of what was said, that the psalm is spoken in the person of every just man who is aided by the Highest, even the God of heaven. And besides this, He knew not that the Word being God, was made man, and was Himself now being tempted in accordance with the plan of salvation. He therefore, as I said, supposed the words were spoken as of a common man, or oven as of one of the holy prophets. But it is monstrous for us, who accurately know the mystery, and believe that He is God and the Son of God, and that for our sakes He became man like unto us, to imagine that the verses were spoken of Him. To say then, "Thou hast made the Most High thy refuge," befits not the person of the Saviour. For He is Himself the Most High: the refuge of all: the hope of all: the all-powerful right hand of the Father: and whosoever has made Him his defence, no evil shall approach him. For He shall command the angels, who are ministering spirits, to guard the just. For just as our fathers in the flesh, when they see the path rough and impassable, catch up their infants in their hands, lest perchance their tender feet should be hurt, being as yet unable to walk over the hard road, so also the rational powers do not permit those, who are as yet unable to labour, and whose understanding is still childish, to toil beyond their strength, but snatch them out of every temptation.
Keep me in your fervent prayers,
childoforthodoxy
Beautifully explained!
What confused me was Luke 4:41, but as mabsoota explained that 'Christ' is greek for 'Messiah', a hebrew word meaning the one who would save israel. The jews did not think of the messiah as someone divine. The Bible also says "for they knew that He was the Christ." NOT 'for they they knew that He was the Christ, the Son of God'. and i guess in Mark 5:7 ("And he cried out with a loud voice and said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me.”), the devils are again only guessing.
The movie The Passion of Christ is just a movie. It is not something we should rely on for our faith. We should always and without fail turn to the writings of our Fathers. These are not difficult to access on the internet and in books.