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Angel replacements

LarryLarry
edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church
Abouna dropped a bombshell recently. He told me that people were created to replace the angels that fell. But why didn't God just make more angels? And why does he need to replace the ones that fell anyway? And were the angels part of the creation, the seven days and created around the same time as us?

Comments

  • mmatt95mmatt95
    Interesting questions, i heard a simular thing about the human race being a replacement of the 10th rank of angels. If u count all the ranks of angels there's nine; the tenth rank were the fallen angels, even though i never figured out why, so if anyone knows the answer ;D

    i found an interesting quote from the bible about the fallen angels

    Jude 1:6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    were the angels part of the creation, the seven days and created around the same time as us?

    Some people say that the angels were created in "the beginning"

    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth

    Because angels are in heaven, they are part of it, and were created when heaven was created.

    Others say that they were created on the "first day"

    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.


    Angels are made of light, so they were created in the beginning when heaven was created or on the first day when light was created, i'm not sure which one though...
  • arubaiscrazyarubaiscrazy
    that is so interesting......i never even new that we replaced angels....i cant believe that their is so much i donno...lol...i guess thats way i have you guys for... :) :) :)
  • youst718youst718
    yup aruba... thats wat we've got em for..the peopel who know their stuff.. so they can teach us some of that great knowledge! im wiht you on this onje..i dditn knwo either
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    here's some piece of information that i found concerning angels in general and the nine ranks. Unfortunately it doesn's say anything bout the replacement, but its still good stuff ;D:

    ANGELS


    God created them (Nehemiah 9:6; Colossians 1:16). They worship God (Nehemiah 9:6: Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:6). Angels are spirits in a form of flame of fire (Psalm 104:4; I Kings 19:5; Hebrews 1:7). They serve and guide man (Acts 12:7-11; 27:23). They announce and proclaim the will of God (Daniel 8:16,17; 9:21-23; Matthew, 2:13, 19; Luke 1:19,28; Acts 5:20; Revelation 1:1). They obey the will of God (Psalm 103:20; Matthew, 6:10).

    They execute the will and judgment of God (II Samuel 24:16; II Kings 19:35; Acts 12:23; Revelation 16:1).

    Their work is to praise God (Psalm 148:2; Isaiah 6:3; Luke 2:13,14; Revelation 5:11,12).

    The Christian Orthodox Creed says concerning God: "Who created all things visible and invisible... "The invisible world is definitely not part of the physical, material universe. It does not exist in space; it has no physical dimensions. It can not be located, and it has no "place" which can be reached by travel within the galaxies of the spatial, locatable "places" of the physically created universe (The Orthodox Faith, Vol. I-doctrine, by Fr. Thomas Hopko).

    According to Orthodox Scripture and Tradition, there are nine (9) ranks of bodiless powers or the Sabaoth, meaning Hosts, meaning literally "armies" or "choirs" or "ranks".

    These ranks are: angels, archangels, principalities, powers, authorities, dominions, thrones, cherubim and seraphim (Liturgy of St. Basil, Isaiah 6:2; I Thessalonians 4:16; I Peter 3:22; Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7).

    The latter are described as offering continual adoration and glory to God crying unceasingly saying: "Holy. Holy. Holy" (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8). Those in the middle of the above listing are little known to men while the angels and archangels are seen as the active workers, warriors and messengers of God relative to this world.

    They are thousand times ten thousands in number (I Kings 22:19; Psalm 68:17; Daniel 7:10; Matthew 26:53; Hebrews 12:22). They are fast (Judges 13:20; Isaiah 6:2-6; Revelation 8:13).

    Everyone born has a "Guardian Angel" (Psalm 91:11,12; Luke 15:10; Matthew 18:10; Acts 12:15).

    source:

    http://www.suscopts.org/stjohnmiami/Whatwebelieve.html#_ANGELS
  • Unknown
    very interesting topic. wat i knew is that we are different from angels cause we are creating in God's image.

    "He (God) was made man so that we might become gods." Pope Athanasius the apostolic

    i never heard anything about being replacements. and y would God want to create something that would continually sin and cause him great pain and heartache? doesnt make sense to me
  • HKelleyHKelley
    What an interesting topic! Thought I might take an opportunity to share some thoughts on the subject of angels. I'm not an expert, but maybe I can add something to the dialogue:

    1. Angels are heavenly beings created by God.
    2. Angels are immortal - Luke 20:36
    3. Angels are sexless - Matt. 22:30
    4. Angels are invisible - Num. 22:22-31
    5. Possessing emotions - Luke 15:10
    6. Organized in ranks - Is. 6:1-3; 1 Thess 4:16
    7. Incarnate in human form at times - Gen. 18:2-8
    8. Respectful of authority - Jude 9


    Ministry toward believers:

    1. Guide - Gen 24:7,40
    2. Protect - Ps. 34:7/Daniel 6:22
    3. Deliver - Acts 12:7-11
    4. Direct activities - Acts 8:26
    5. Comfort - Acts 27:23-24
    6. Minister to - Heb. 1:14

    Ministry in Christ's life:

    1. Announced His conception - Matt. 1:20-21
    2. Herald His birth - Luke 2:10-12
    3. Sustained Him - Matt 4:11
    4. Witnessed His resurrection - 1 Tim. 3:16
    5. Proclaimed His resurrection - Matt. 28:5-7
    6. Accompany Him to heaven - Acts 1:9-11

    Just some scriptural understanding about angels I hope it adds something informative to the dialogue.

    Be blessed,
  • HKelleyHKelley
    Iqbal:

    I guess I thought the question was about "angels" generically, not the Angel of the Lord, which is felt to be an appearance of the preincarnate Christ.

    Appearances of the "Angel of the Lord"

    Hagar - Gen. 16:7-8; 21:17; Gen. 22:11,15
    Jacob - Gen. 31:11-13; Gen. 32:24-30
    Moses - Ex. 3:1-2
    Children of Israel - Ex. 13:31-22; 14:19
    Balaam - Num. 22:22-35
    Joshua - Judges 2:1 (Joshua 5:14-15*)
    David - 1 Chronicles 21:16-18

    The term Angel of the Lord refers to the appearance of one of the persons of the Divine Trinity. The second person of the Trinity is no doubt the manifestation of God in such appearances.

    In His Service
  • HKelleyHKelley
    Absolutely! I believe you and I are on the same page. I trust that the Lord is blessing your day??

    There have some interesting topics on this site. It has been a blessing to be a part of the Body of Christ in dialogue regarding spiritual matters.

    Grace
  • mmatt95mmatt95
    soooo, back to the original question ;D
  • HKelleyHKelley
    Hos:

    Just to add a scripture to the dialogue which could possibly clarify it a bit more, take a look at 1 Cor. 15:38-41. With a bit of study and reflection, I think you will find understanding there.

    God's blessings & peace be with you today!
  • LarryLarry
    [quote author=Iqbal link=board=4;threadid=674;start=0#msg12815 date=1097585385]
    So there really is no such thing as angels incarnating in human form, rather this human form is one of many different manifestations of God through His Living and eternal Word.


    Wait, weren't there three angels of the lord that appeared to Lot in Sodom? So that means they were manifested in human form, right?
  • LarryLarry
    That makes sense to me.
  • erepsaltiserepsaltis
    Regarding the creation of of the angels, HG Bishop David said that the angels were created on the first day (Genesis 1:3-4) (The creation of light) because the angels are angels of light.

    Please keep me always in your prayers.
    David
  • HKelleyHKelley
    Hi David:

    Some additional information on the creation of angels might help to nail down some further thought:

    #1 Job 38:4-7: It is felt from this verse of scripture that
    the angels (son of the morning) were rejoicing with
    God at the formation of the earth.

    #2 We see in Isaiah 14:12 scriptures that are felt to
    refer to Lucifer, who was before his fall, the
    anointed cherub who was before God. Since Christ
    existed before the foundations of the earth, and
    Jesus stated "that He saw satan thrown out of
    heaven to the earth", could it bew possible that this
    took place before the creation of man?

    #3 Daniel 7 9-10. We see the Ancient of Days (Almighty
    God) sitting on His throne, and surround this throne
    was myriads upon myriads of angelic beings. Could it
    be possible that this is a reflection of what was
    going on the heavenlies before the creation of man?

    #4 Colossians 1:15-16: "For by Him all things were
    created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible
    and invisible..........and He is before all things, and in
    Him all things hold together." Now if Christ was
    before all things, then it is strongly possible that the
    vision that Daniel had in the noted above was before
    the creation of the earth. If this is true (or at least
    let us give it some thoughtful consideration) the
    Colossians scripture tells us things created both in
    the heavens and on earth. I believe it is a given
    theological understanding that the heavens
    (heavenlies) were in existence before God created
    the earth.

    #5 Remember in Hebrews 11:3: "By faith we
    understand that the worlds were prepared by the
    word of God, so that which is seen was not ade out
    of things which are visible. The heavenlies
    represents (to us mortal man who is limited by time
    & space) the invisible. The visible came out of that
    activity that took place in the invisible realm.

    #6 It is also interesting as I think on the subject, that in
    the Garden of Eden, the serpent of old showed up.
    Now I think we might agree on the fact that this
    serpent represents Lucifer (the anointed cherub,
    which is one of the ranks of angelic beings) when he
    was kicked out of heaven for trying to exalt himself
    above God. If this is true, then could it be that
    the angelic hosts existed before the Genesis 1:3
    account?

    These scripture references are just some food for thought. Because of this topic I am beginning to give more thought to angels. You guys really give me challenges, but I thank God for it because it causes me to study and reflect. :)

    Thanks for the opportunity to contribute.

    God's grace be with you today!
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